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How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by Cwicseolfor, Jul 11, 2010.

  1. Cwicseolfor

    Cwicseolfor IncGamers Member

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    How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    What level should I enter Hell?

    How do I survive cursed/extra strong (and other) bosses?

    My build contains:
    20 holy freeze
    20 holy shield

    My merc is defiance.

    And I'm considering adding 20 defiance to that just to help a bit more (synergy to holy shield).

    My shield is +120% res all, so my res are all maxed (cold is 85% of course).

    I had 700 hitpoints.

    But I died at lvl63 in a 1 player game to Corpsefire in the den of evil in 1 hit.

    Is it just luck if a paladin survives in Hell?

    Will damage reduction gear make any meaningful difference? 1 hit kills are uhg. There's clearly nothing you can do against them.
     
  2. Krupa

    Krupa IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    some more insight on ur equip and ur build would help, but i guess u´re playing a frostzealot.

    all enemies will be very slow and with 75 ctb, it´s not worth to invest in defiance imo, rather put the points into synergies for more dmg, u will need that extra dmg, or some alternative source of dmg, for the cold immunes, which u will encounter, a lot.

    u should hunt for some life charms and maybe switch ur shield (4x pdia?) for something else like mosers, alma negra, spirit (with base res). but the most important thing is get some %dr (damage reduction) gear if u don´t have any, it´s one of the top priorities for any melee. a stormshield seems to be out of ur lvl range atm, but a shaft stop or rock stopper should help some. string of ears is always a great choice for any melee char.
    i doubt corpsefire is a big dmg char, might be his mods, something like extra strong, cursed and/or aura enchanted. u should check bosses for those mods, they do hurt. lure those packs away and kill them one by one, if u char isn´t strong enough to run over them
     
  3. Cwicseolfor

    Cwicseolfor IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    Thanks for the reply. Killing speed isn't the problem. I've got my merc, physical damage from weapon/zeal, and crushing blow for cold immunes.

    I had 33% chance to be hit
    75% block
    max resistances
    60% slow for all enemies

    Corpsefire was Extra Strong, Cursed. It sucks. Might have been a lag spike in hindsight. I'm in Australia playing on Europe. Ping is constantly between 500 and 1000ms. =/

    I'll grab damage reduction then, both the percent and absolute types. Try number two.
     
  4. Krupa

    Krupa IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    500-1000 ping? ouch

    for dr this is how it is calculated:
    the absolute dmg reduction is applied first, then the % dr
    let´s say dmg of 150 (normal hell fiends do have up to 150 according to AS)

    if u have 50 abs dr and 0% -> 150 - 50 = 100 dmg
    if u have 20 abs dr and 20 %dr -> 150 - 20 *0.8 = 104 dmg
    if u have 0 abs dr and 30% -> 100 *0.7 = 105

    abs dr is very hard to stack without having to sacrifice other stats
    i therefore think it´s a nice add, but not worth to choose ur equip after, unless u want to have 75+ abs dr, cuz with 50% dr (the cap, which is easily achieved by e.g. storm + verdungo or rockstopper + treachery + string) u´ll have an about equal result to normal fiends and a big advantage against those extra strong amped ones

    u should btw really look into that treachery armor btw, it will give u a nice venom dmg boost, 45 ias and also lvl 15(?) fade, which is equal to 15% dr and mass resistance. that might make it possible to switch the one or other item in ur equip for more dr
     
  5. Yosprey

    Yosprey IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    Level 63 melee in Hell? I highly recommend leveling to 75 (or higher!) doing NM Baal.

    I also recommend rerolling super uniques if you get a combination that is spells death. Cursed, Fanaticism, Immunity to your primary/secondary damage types. You get a combination of 2 or 3 of these and it's just not worth it most of the time.
     
  6. oOmpie

    oOmpie IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    Hehehe, I spent a good amount of time yesterday bringing an extra fast, extra strong, cold immune, physical immune Threehead Woodfist to his knees with my lvl 73 frost zealer using nothing but open wounds, some poison damage and a lvl 3 or thereabouts holy bolt :badteeth:



     
  7. MrBill

    MrBill IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    Q : "How do I survive (Hardcore) Hell with a paladin?"

    A : "Get a pair of boots with '40% Faster Run / Walk' and make sure that you always 'run'."

    :whistling:

    But seriously folks. This is the hardest character class to play, even including Hammerdins which I would really not call a "Paladin" in the conventional sense of that term.

    Here are my suggestions :

    (1.) Play in parties, especially with other characters who have minions.

    (2.) Have either (a) a really durable Act 2 or Act 5 merc to help you, or (b) have an Act 1 merc with a good bow and try to maneuver the monsters so that "Meghan" can pick off the monsters, or at least thin them down a bit, at range. (Needless to say, this is "easier said than done".)

    (3.) Resists, resists, resists. Should be "75" across the board for Hell, but 60 to 75 will do for everything except Lightening.

    (4.) Hit points, hit points, hit points. No less than 1000 to enter Hell. This is difficult to accomplish, of course, particularly for a beginning character.

    (5.) Blocking with a good shield. I am partial to the Rhyme (Shael + Eth) Runeword in a good Paladin shield that has built-in resists, since it gives you the precious "Cannot Be Frozen" attribute. (A chilled Paladin in Hell is likely to end up as a dead Paladin.)

    (6.) The monsters should always, always, be in front of you, never behind you. A surrounded Paladin in Hell is also likely to end up as a Level 1 re-build. :tombstone:

    (7.) Open Wounds / Crushing Blow (as much as you can get while keeping AR, FHR and resists up). Incidentally, OW works doubleplusgood on something like a throwing axe or throwing knives as your weapon switch; when the monsters are just too dangerous to get near to, throw things at them.

    (8.) Some % or integer PDR is nice, but don't give up resists for it.

    Incidentally (this is a favorite theme of mine), if you do manage to (say) get a good String of Ears or other item with % PDR, use the Smoke (Nef + Lum) Runeword armor and start casting the Weaken curse on every tough monster pack that you can't run away from. This can get you very quickly up to (maybe over? not sure here) 50% physical resistance :evil:, which is a huge advantage for a melee Paladin in Hell... the curse lasts quite a long time and it isn't that expensive to fix up your armor when you run out of charges.

    (9.) Make sure you have at least one point in each of the following skills : Salvation (gloams, no further explanation needed), Redemption (corpse disposal and free healing / mana), Cleansing (never, ever fight while Cursed in Hell), and, if you are a non-elemental Paladin, one point in Vengeance for Physical Immunes.

    (10.) I don't want to see anything other than fat purple potions (okay, maybe an antidote or two) in your belt. Normal healing or mana potions have no place in the belt of a fragile melee character in Hell.

    (11.) Use extreme caution in dangerous areas of the game, particularly anywhere that you might run into dolls or Frenzytaurs (witches, too). Being caught in the middle of a Zeal sequence while the dolls come around the corner is my bad for your health. :surprise:

    (12.) Did I mention, "plain old dumb luck"? You'll need plenty of it.

    GL2U,

    Mr. Bill
     
  8. Krupa

    Krupa IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    i had a blast when i ran my untwinked ow-frost-zealot through classic till hell cs (where he ripped :banghead: due to my stupidity)
    those chars aren´t as fragile as they seem to be...light & fire res are the only important ones imo. cannot be frozen is very nice.

    two more things: elemental dmg can trigger open wounds too. so a 1pt holy fire aura can kill every CI with OW´s.
    if it already bleeds and is CI, smite it against a wall till its death
     
  9. Elyxthaxzus

    Elyxthaxzus IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    something else I didn't see you mention is what your chance to hit is, and your life leech %. the fact that your only in your high 60's would speak to allot of misses, hence allot of hits NOT landing and NOT leeching life. My pally lives by his LL in hell. On tough mobs his bulb will jump allot, but always go back up. This is also tougher on an elemental zealot, as you don't get the +ar bonus that fanaticism has, and your physical damage is lower then a fanat zealot would be at.

    When you go up against a cold immune, this will hurt as most of your damage is eliminated, and you have to rely on a small pool of phys damage to kill the mob(iirc corpsebutt is cold immune by default in hell). Crush blow helps here, but unfortunately crush blow doesn't leech life back, which is your saving grace on a melee toon.

    I agree with the 72-75 range for going into hell. 70 is possible if you have decent gear, and the lower the gear, the higher level you want to wait till going into hell. It's tough, but very doable. I've taken many zealots into hell, though usually they're fanat zealots. What is your gear pool options? are you on bnet or single player? if your on bnet, hit up the trading forums here and throw around a few pgems.

    Or you may want to just run NM baal multiple times until something worthwhile drops. Or just try to throw together a semi decent/moderately cheap RW like oath, lawbringer, etc. try up boost your physical damage and your leech once your AR is up to par.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2010
  10. kardinaal

    kardinaal IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    Build and merc:

    You could respec to a holy shock variant and use a act 2 cold merc. This will give you more damage on your zeal for the same ammount of skills, and you'll still have the holy freeze aura freezing enemies.

    Another option is to get a prayer merc with insight, which will get you double healing and adds a steady stream of life on top of your leech.


    equipment:

    For good physical damage (and thus more leech) check out the King's Grace runeword, giving nice damage and high leech, and is buildable in a scepter with +skills if you can find a good one. Also a spirit shield will give you extra +skills for your aura. Both are easily obtained from nm countess.

    It's also nice to get a spirit sword and shield on switch for prebuffing your holy shield.
     
  11. Cwicseolfor

    Cwicseolfor IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    Thanks guys! Soooo many tips and good ideas in this thread.

    I'm not a noob player (maybe noob at hardcore). I was tired when I made the thread though, hence lack of details.

    He was my first character on D2 in 2 years, and first HC character that made it past the middle of nightmare pretty much ever (I usually play with friends so when they quit, I quit).

    I love Holy Shock but no way am I going the Holy Shock route after the frustrations I just had with my lightning zon in softcore. Acts 3, 4, and 5 contain too many hard-hitting LI's and I can't rely on trading thundergods and/or a Wisp Projector.

    The Insight Prayer merc idea is amazing! Thanks heaps for suggesting that, gonna try it on the next char I make. Couple it with some replenish life from items for some serious survivability.

    Maybe I can get lucky and score some Dracul's gloves, too.

    MrBill: Neat tips! Thankee.

    Krupa: I had the same idea. Treachery really does look like an amazing armour. People don't realise just what Fade means. Shame about the defence on it, but I guess I have Holy Shield.
     
  12. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    Uhh life replenishment and prayer really do nothing to protect you from deaths. At best they are the lazy man's replacement to healing potions. And healing potions dont help against cursed extra strong packs lol. What do help are life, damage reduction, block, defense(in order of reliability). And a ton of life is necessary, regular zombies in a3 can crit to 1k damage alone(integer pdr wont help against that)..
     
  13. Yosprey

    Yosprey IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    I'm inclined to agree with zrk. I used a Prayer Insight merc on a elemental druid (fire for normal/nm wind for hell) and prayer+insight certainly kept my mana topped off, the only reason it was viable for life was because I wasn't in the line of fire. So, it's viable for casters but not for melee. Holy freeze or defiance would likely be better alternatives, with holy freeze being my personal favorite.
     
  14. Raver

    Raver IncGamers Member

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    Re: How do I survive Hell with a paladin?

    Running around aimlessly and screaming at my screen has always worked wonders for me. That and crushing blow... how I love crushing blow.
     

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