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How Can Vengeance Be Useful If You're Not An Avenger?

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by DwayneGAnd, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. DwayneGAnd

    DwayneGAnd Diabloii.Net Member

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    I know that you need a point in vengeance for all melee combat builds just as you would need berserk for a melee barbarian to deal with physical immunes. But even if the attack uses all three elements of fire, cold, and lightning, how can it be truly effective if you do not invest fully in it and its synergies. Avengers max it and use conviction as their primary aura to reduce enemy resistances. Other melee paladins such as zealots, martyrs, smiters, and chargers only use one point and nothing in the synergies, unless they are elemental zealots using one of the holy elemental auras of fire, freeze, and shock and maxing both the single resist aura matching it as well as salvation.

    I'm guessing that even then with non-avengers who specialize in physical or one element attack won't be able to inflict impressive damage against immunes.

    For example, a lot of Holy Shock paladins will use the Crescent Moon runeword built into a phase blade for their endgame weapon to save repair costs. The Phase Blade doesn't have very high physical damage when compared to a Breath of the Dying Ethereal Berserker Axe when Vengeance is fully maxed and points invested in its synergies and a high level conviction. I'm certain that the damage a Crescent Moon inflicts with Vengeance won't deal as much damage as even a physical zealot using an ethereal Breath of the Dying Berserker Axe with only one point in Vengeance and a hireling that does not have Infinity. So how is vengeance supposed to deal impressive damage against enemies immune to the damage I deal as a zealot, charger, smiter, etc if I don't invest in it or its synergies as I would as an avenger?

    I have a Holy Shock Zealot planned to use Crescent Moon in a Phase Blade, and a Holy Fire Paladin that uses Phoenix in a Phase Blade. Yet I can't seem to find a good weapon for my planned Holy Freeze Zealot due to neither melee runeword coming with the ability to reduce enemy cold damage being able to be made into a phase blade to save repair costs (Doom) or having any enhanced damage modifier (Voice of Reason).

    I remember there used to be a very good calculator online to calculate your total damage, even including the damage added by Vengeance, but now it seems to be gone.
     
  2. krischan

    krischan Europe Trade Moderator

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    Vengeance isn't supposed to be impressive if you don't invest a certain amount of skill points in it, that's all. It's like that with a whole lot of skills, so I'm not sure why you have the expectation that it should.

    BTW, my zealots don't have a single point in vengeance because they are usually using Grief weapons whose damage bonus doesn't contribute to the elemental damage of vengeance.
     
  3. DwayneGAnd

    DwayneGAnd Diabloii.Net Member

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    Apparently it's nowhere anywhere as good as the barbarian's Berserk which can deal good damage and give good attack rating even with one point invested and multiple skill level bonuses from items.

    So my solution to dealing with Physical Immunes when playing as a paladin is to equip my hireling with The Reaper's Toll for it's chance to cast decrepify, reducing physical resistance.
     

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