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How are the Legendary's shown in RoS presentation at all, build changing?

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 General Discussion' started by Azzure, Aug 23, 2013.

  1. Azzure

    Azzure Diabloii.Net Member

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    "Chance on Kill to summon a Hydra at the enemies location"
    Wand (Wizard only)

    View attachment 4685

    This is what Josh Mosqueira used as his primary example of how Legendaries in loot 2.0 will be "Build Changers".

    Call me stupid, but how on earth does an item effect like this change your build at all? What skill would you change if you equipped this weapon? What different items/item stats would you target if you used this weapon? Would you be more likely to take the Hydra skill, if so, how does this item make your build any different? It simply spews out a hydra on a dead body, which does a few more passive DPS. How does this influence elements of your build at all?

    The answer is, just like Firewalker's legendary effect, it doesn't. It is a gimmick of passive dps, no different to the unthoughtful legendarys we currently have.

    Crap like this angers me, because it shows that Blizzard are still on a different planet when it comes to what players want. We don't want gimmicky effects that add a few more passive dps, we want stats/item effects that actually CHANGE the way you build your character.

    So you might say, what about that Monk weapon that refunds Dashing Strike if the target is 20 yards away, isn't that "build-changing"?

    Directly buffing a single skill is a very shallow and a disappointing way to make builds diverse. Simply forcing an item to be awesome for skill X is not creative and definitely not satisfying to the player. Players want to customize their build based on their item, and vice versa. Not simply get full primary stat + crit + IAS + *insert legendary that directly buffs desired skill*, which the path that Blizzard seems to be going.

    After a year of the community asking for this, I am disappointed that Itemization is still going to be a linear, one dimensional, uncreative and boring item system that is far inferior to Diablo 2's.
     
  2. 0blique

    0blique Diabloii.Net Member

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    My hope is that they are still deeply in the experimental stage. I think the point of showing those particular legendaries is to show the show some of the affixes they are playing with and not to show a fully balanced item. If they are still testing things out, it would probably make sense not to try to balance out an item out until they know how a particular mod will work. Hence the fairly boring stats.
     
  3. capnlarge

    capnlarge Diabloii.Net Member

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    I thought the legendary they found for the Crusader that had a chance to pull in enemies and slow them was pretty rad.
     
  4. Fizoo

    Fizoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    I think the only way it is a build changer is if you have a wand that does this vs a 2 handed staff that has a different cool proc and maybe a third equppable weapon with something else. so your choosing how to build from the standpoint of what weapons / shields to roll with. its not the same as we envisioned it unless theres something were not considering.
     
  5. Fizoo

    Fizoo Diabloii.Net Member

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    What we really want is an advanced version of how d2 had set items with set bonuses. many were cosmetic like an aura or transforming you into a fire mage like the necro set did. wow took a step in this direction with the twin blades from zul gurub that transformed the wielder into a fast tiger for a few seconds. Blizz moved away from that quite a few years ago...maybe to the point they don't quite understand anymore haha
     
  6. ShadowMatrix

    ShadowMatrix Diabloii.Net Member

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    What I think a wand like this should do is encourage the use of the hydra skill itself. What are some ways for this, well if wizards could spawn 3-5 hydras BEFORE the engagement and when the hydras do damage the wizard regains 3 Arcane Power per attack from each hydra so now hydras synergisticaly benefit the wizards bigger damage skills making it easier to cast spells like Meteor or Sleet Storm. Not only that, I do not worry about APOC on off hands or helmets because of this one single wand which would change my affix itemization build as well, I could drop that storm crow and get the crit mempo instead etc.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  7. Azzure

    Azzure Diabloii.Net Member

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    Precisely. Stuff like this is what I expected they would do when they said "Build-changing legendaries", not gimmicks that do nothing for build diversity.
     
  8. ShadowMatrix

    ShadowMatrix Diabloii.Net Member

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    I honestly hope Travis sees this. As a wizard player I think it would be pretty cool to use multiple hydras to help regenerate my arcane pool with the other things
     
  9. yovargas

    yovargas Diabloii.Net Member

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    Generally speaking, I'm not a fan of legs that boost/improve one single skill. It's just way too narrow of a design. We don't want items so homogenous they're equally good for all builds, but we also don't want them so specific they're only good for one build.
     
  10. Merith

    Merith Diabloii.Net Member

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    Gee, is it possible that maybe that was just an early example and maybe, just maybe, they are still working on the loot and it isn't completely 100% finished yet? How about we wait until we see the final examples before everyone jumps all over Blizzard and making assumptions....
     
  11. Azzure

    Azzure Diabloii.Net Member

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    This is exactly the same attitude that resulted in Loot 1.0.

    "They are just placeholders, the real ones will be awesome!!"
    "There will be more diverse stats, these are just examples!".

    I don't need to explain what the reality ended up being.
     
  12. Merith

    Merith Diabloii.Net Member

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    Do you really think after the outcry that happened with the initial loot that they will repeat the same thing again....you can't be serious if you really think they haven't learned from their mistakes. I'm not thrilled with how this game turned out initially, but I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt for this expansion before I assume they will screw up the same way again. I'm 100% sure some whiny cry babies will still hate RoS no matter what, but I'm seeing waaaaaaaayyyy too many assumptions lately and we barely got a taste of what they have planned. Give it some time.
     
  13. ShadowMatrix

    ShadowMatrix Diabloii.Net Member

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    Exactly. This. I still remember when everyone said how bad legendary's were pre-release and they "promised" us better loot and people were saying the same thing Merith is saying. Blizzard needs to see our criticisms, it's not "hurting their feelings" so stop defending them.
    The reason why we are getting all of this "new" stuff in the expansion is because of our criticisms every single new feature is from everything we've complained about. defending and giving them the benefit of the doubt will drive the game into a hole. They need to see our criticism NOW to know the direction to take the game, EVERY single feature is a direct result of people critiquing the game.
     
  14. Merith

    Merith Diabloii.Net Member

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    I am in no way defending their "feelings", and giving them the benefit of the doubt will not drive the game into a hole. Incessant whining and moaning over things will drive the game into a hole. Critique is a good idea, and I was very critical of how this game got started, it was a disaster. I have faith that they understand what the issues are and that they will be addressed. I'm a huge WoW player, and Cata was as big of a mess as D3, and the critique was warranted. But, MoP came along and for I think they really turned things around. Even the features that people made fun of and assumed they would be lame, like pet battles, turned out to be a huge success. Trust me, if they make the same mistake again, I'll be with a lot of others and will be very critical of Blizzard. I just don't see it happening a second time within this game.
     
  15. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Best defense of Josh I can think is that you guys are taking "build changing" too literally. Yes, he said it. No, it doesn't seem to be true. (Unless there's some other item that say, grants you 50% faster AP regen for every Hydra cast.)

    But it is a legendary that would change how you played somewhat. Think about it; you'd move much more quickly from group to group, almost like a WW barb since you'd only need to kill most of the monsters and then dash on, trusting the 4 or 6 hydras that just popped up on the scene of the battle to finish off the last few enemies.

    So no, it's not "build changing" but that's a catchy PR phrase and rolls off the tongue more easily than "really good item that will somewhat modify how you play and make you happy you found it."
     
  16. ShadowMatrix

    ShadowMatrix Diabloii.Net Member

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    The problem is, is that with the wizards king build as SNS CM, all of the monsters generally die at the same time, which means this wand wouldn't get much practical use because you'd have all of these hydras spawn but no more monsters to kill.... They have to look at the realistic view of how this game is being played. If they happen to have hundreds of legendary's with all kind of ideas that are "build changing" beyond my imagination then great but as a Wizard player myself this is my own input. I think it would be better if multiple hydras could be spawned pre engagement and used as arcane generators which means I won't need to use passives such as Astral Presence and use something else, I could drop my storm crow, I could use a different orb all because I'm getting good enough Arcane regeneration from a legendary wand, to me that is build changing because it has rippling effects else where with passives and item choices and it encourages wizards to use the hydra skill which is worthless right now but if they happen to have some other hydra legendarys then good
     
  17. TheDestructor

    TheDestructor Diabloii.Net Member

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    Because there's a new wizard source/hat that increases Hydra damage by 150%. Best Wand ever!

    Hopefully the proc rate is pretty damn high, like 75%. With Arcane Hydra + Temporal Flux, you get a nice snare effect and just having one arcane hydra out is pretty effective at slowing entire swarms. Get 3-4 out there, and you'll have a nice perimeter of death. This is assuming the hydras are based on what you have on your skill bar, with no hydra giving you the default fireball hydra.

    This wand is still problematic though, because it has such slow attack speed. Hydras need attack speed.

    Grasping at straws? Probably.

    Yeah, not the most exciting weapon I've ever seen, but at the same time not as terrible as Firewalkers.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2013
  18. ADest

    ADest Diabloii.Net Member

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    *YAWN*, Talk about being asleep at the wheel. These Loot 2.0 "fixes" are really like fire walkers 1.1... They said THAT patch was going to save us from boring loot because of stuff like the Maximus with it's fire chained demon, firewalkers, and other useless crap. Someone please, please, throw a rock through these peoples window with a note attached explaining that an item focused on one thing will change NOTHING. Unless the item increases Whirlwind damage by 500%, nobody will CARE. Build changing items in D2 were build changing because they either 1: increased the power of EVERY ASPECT OF THE WEARER, FROM STATS (cannot be frozen) TO SKILLS (+3 to all skill levels), or 2: Allowed an entirely NEW way to play that character. You want this thing to be 'Build changing'? Well put the effect on a MONK FIST, or a MIGHTY WEAPON. HELLO, WIZARDS CAN ALREADY USE HYDRAS! They can, but nobody does. Because they SUCK. Being able to (maybe) summon more of something USELESS isn't going to change a damn thing. Sweet heavens, it's like these people are lost in lalaland, holy crap. It's obvious now they don't want characters to be GOOD. We all know CM & WW builds were not supposed to be possible, but somehow escaped Blizzard's notice. They are supposed to be trying to make more broken builds like this, for every class, not nerfing these builds, or putting in stupid crap that will just be more brimstones. Want to see REAL smart drops? Put in a fetaure that automatically converts crap like this into a brimstone, or auto IDs and sells crummy yellows to the nearest vendor.
     
  19. McTommo

    McTommo Diabloii.Net Member

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    Just thought this would be a good time to remind you all of this thread (I posted this in the bnet forums and my post was promptly deleted):

    http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3278898648

    I would invite you all to read Bashiok's first and second replies....
     
  20. koko

    koko Diabloii.Net Member

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    I think I would like to see leg affixes which states stuff like "you have 3x arcane power but all spell get a 1s cooldown" or "all cooldown are down to 1s but all spells costs 70AP" or "Cooldowns starts after 1s (like the wormhole rune for teleport)". I think these could be build changing but difficult to balance.
     

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