HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

[Garbad_the_Weak]

HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

http://www.whitehouse.gov/omb/assets/fy2010_new_era/A_New_Era_of_Responsibility2.pdf

Shocking deficits, with big tax increases coming on the wealthy and higher medicare premiums. At the same time, he is thrashing conservative pork (nuclear power, defense, farming subsidies, small business) while increasing liberal pork (healthcare, making not working pay more, capping emissions, etc). The investments in education and infrastructure are ok and the increased transparency is nice.

I think we are in for a strong game of political rickrolling over the next few weeks. Politics as usual, but MORE! Republicans, grab your ankles! Hippies, get your requests in ASAP!

So what do YOU think?

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

I think calling it a New Era of Responsibility is disingenuous at best. I also think Obama doesn't know how to stop campaigning.

 

[Glurin]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

Its not like we didn't see this coming. But everyone was, and still is, eager for the magic pill solution to all their problems, and that's what Obama keeps showing them. (Actualy, come to think of it, its the only thing he's showing them.) Its the oldest trick in the book.

 

[llad12]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

Republicans moaning about fiscal irresponsibility should take a long hard look in a full length mirror.

The Bush administration essentially doubled the national debt in eight years.

Republicans are hardly in any position to point fingers at others.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

Republicans moaning about fiscal irresponsibility should take a long hard look in a full length mirror.

The Bush administration essentially doubled the national debt in eight years.

Republicans are hardly in any position to point fingers at others.

Hi.

I think it was crap when Bush did, and I think it's crap now that Obama's doing it.

 

[krischan]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

So where can the US save a few hundreds of billions of dollars ?

I think the Americans should start doing something instead of fighting about what's the fault of whom and who is wrong at what. You are stuck with that president now. He will make the decisions, that's why he was elected. If you don't like what the elected leader of your country does, do what you think that it's necessary, but I don't think that lamenting will help at all. In the current situation, refusing to cooperate after the decision has been made will do more damage than it will help. You can still do that when the next elections are near .

Hmm, I guess Mikey would say that sounds pretty German :whistling:

Regarding debts: In Germany, the goal was not to make any debts from 2012 on or so and now the first crisis throws over the whole ? Isn't a crisis to be expected once every decade or so ? The current one might be particularly massive, but I'm under the impression that a couple of politicians knew in advance that they wouldn't be able to keep their promises and the next crisis would be a perfect excuse to delay the plans.

Perhaps it needs a law which says that all state debts have to be paid by collecting by extra taxes at the end of the year. Voters hate taxes, and they will hate extra taxes even more, in particular those which are the product of carelessness. That might cause more discipline at not overstretching the budget, but in times of need (e.g. right now), people might accept a certain amount of debts. The state needs an extra 100 billion for the army, for helping the industry or whatever ? OK, no problem, the taxpayer will pay an extra amount then instead of letting the following generations do that. I'm not talking about the US alone here, we have a rather huge deficit as well, although not as massive as the US AFAIK.

 

[llad12]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

Hi.

I think it was crap when Bush did, and I think it's crap now that Obama's doing it.

When the Libertarian party can elect somebody, besides a dogcatcher, I will listen to you.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

Republicans are hardly in any position to point fingers at others.

Let me get this straight - if a Republican screws up, that gives Democrats carte blanche to do whatever they want?

Can non-Republican conservatives, like myself, point fingers? Or do you mean all conservatives when you say Republicans?

 

[llad12]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

Let me get this straight - if a Republican screws up, that gives Democrats carte blanche to do whatever they want?

Can non-Republican conservatives, like myself, point fingers? Or do you mean all conservatives when you say Republicans?

Shoot, just give the wealthy a big tax break ... and all will be well.

If that doesn't work, try another tax break.

That's the Republican solution. Right?

When it trickles down your ***, lemme know

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

Shoot, just give the wealthy a big tax break ... and all will be well.

If that doesn't work, try another tax break.

That's the Republican solution. Right?

When it trickles down your ***, lemme know

Llad, I am not a republican, as you know. But let's face it, at least tax cuts have a rational and empirical link to GDP increases, and only GDP increases will improve our standard of living. Morally, I sit closer to most demo ideals, yet in the end....the idea of redistribution and bureaucratizing yourself to prosperity is just insane. Keynesianism is just a farce -- the idea that you can make people have more things by changing the price tags on things is just silly. I have an undergrad in finance, although I do not work in that field today, and liberal economics strike me as irresponsible and naivete, in not openly deceptive.

So while the horse and sparrow theory may not be ideal, at least it attempts to hit the target. A better solution would be investments that actually improve the productivity of labor, encourage labor participation and efficiency, and generate new business opportunities. IE, infrastructure, research, education, incentives, deregulation.

 

[SaroDarksbane]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

When the Libertarian party can elect somebody, besides a dogcatcher, I will listen to you.

Listen to me about what? I was pointing out that there were more people out there than Republicans and Democrats, and that slinging mud at the "enemy" party doesn't really help when a large portion of your target audience already hates the other party anyway. The two major political parties are like two mafias that constantly point to the other and say "Well, they do it too!" as a defense to any criticism of their methods, and somehow they actually expect that logic to fly.

(And what did I ever do to you, anyway? Lighten up a bit!)

 

[Tanooki]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

Good analogy Saro.

 

[Amra]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

So what do YOU think?

Another 2 billion for NASA but no real specifics on how it will be spent. Still planning on retiring the Shuttle in 2010 which I don't really agree with. Too much of a "gap" for me.

Also:

"NASA's astronauts and robotic spacecraft have been exploring our solar system and the universe for more than 50 years," according to an OMB budget overview. "The agency will create a new chapter of this legacy as it works to return Americans to the moon by 2020 as part of a robust human and robotic space exploration program."

This "new chapter" was started by Bush in 2004. But I guess Obama should be getting credit now. :coffee:

Republicans moaning about fiscal irresponsibility should take a long hard look in a full length mirror.

I agree. I've been consistent in my displeasure with how some "Conservatives" continue to crank up spending. They have been a disappointment.

That's the Republican solution. Right?

Not exactly. It's more about free enterprise and less government meddling.

When it trickles down your ***, lemme know

1) Kennedy
2) Reagan
3) Bush (although to a less extent to be sure)

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

TBH investment in the space program was a pretty good investment, both in terms of prestige/politics and technology. I'd rather spend money on that than subsidize condoms for kiddies and/or pay for my fatass neighbor's insulin.

 

[Dirty_Zulu]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

While our banks suffer, China's bank profits are up 30%.

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

While our banks suffer, China's bank profits are up 30%.

Too bad their stock market makes ours look like mount Everest.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/0a/Shanghai_Composite_Index.PNG/400px-Shanghai_Composite_Index.PNG

Remember this, OTers: when Gulliver's feet get wet, the Lilliputians drown.

 

[Amra]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

TBH investment in the space program was a pretty good investment, both in terms of prestige/politics and technology. I'd rather spend money on that than subsidize condoms for kiddies and/or pay for my fatass neighbor's insulin.

Agreed but NASA could easily use a bit more. :whistling:

What is TBH?

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

What is TBH?

TBH = to be honest

 

[jmervyn]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

The two major political parties are like two mafias that constantly point to the other and say "Well, they do it too!" as a defense to any criticism of their methods, and somehow they actually expect that logic to fly.

What's far funnier IMO is that Ill is doing exactly the same thing in this thread, and not capable of realizing it. Who cares if Almighty O will preside over a monstrous miscarriage of Gov't the likes of which have never even been seen, since Teh EBIL Reptublikkkans played poorly at the same game for a couple of years! Ill is doubtless one of the Obama voters who were a little bit confused about exactly who was in charge of Congress for the last two years of Bush's term; he certainly has no grasp of why the economy tanked and what was responsible. :smug:

(And what did I ever do to you, anyway? Lighten up a bit!)

He's confused you with me. It happens at that age, along with the Depends.

 

[AeroJonesy]

Re: HopeinChange - Obama's 2009 Budget Proposal

You are stuck with that president now. He will make the decisions, that's why he was elected. If you don't like what the elected leader of your country does, do what you think that it's necessary, but I don't think that lamenting will help at all.

But Obama pledged to work with conservatives as well as liberals. Seems to me conservatives should be speaking up more. Besides, this nation was built on the ability to criticize the government. And in times of crisis, it is especially important that everyone be free to speak their mind.