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high rune hunting

Discussion in 'Theorycrafting and Statistics' started by Superhal, Jun 15, 2005.

  1. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    high rune hunting

    which of these would be the most efficient strategy for getting high runes:

    1. countess killer: quantity and speed over quality.

    2. self-rushing through to hellforge quest: quality over quantity and time.

    3. opening chests in high areas: pure luck.

    4. killing a lot of bosses and champions: power.

    5. killing lots and lots of monsters very quickly: the old way.
     
  2. Thrugg

    Thrugg IncGamers Member

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    Well, I can only answer this in general terms. This question has been talked about at length, of course. The kind of char you use to do it makes a big difference - "which is best" for a given char may not be the same as "which is best" if you choose the right char for the job, if you see what I mean.

    The Countess drops around 1.** runes per kill in a solo game. This means you can expect 0.00075 Ists, 0.0011 Mals, 0.0013 Ums and 0.0020 Puls per kill. Anything below that I really wouldn't waste my time cubing up. It takes 24 Lems just to make an Ist, whereas you'll find an Ist roughly for every 3 Lems, it really isn't worth it - and cubing lower runes just gets even less efficient. The listed runes can be cubed into about 0.0019 Ists per run. So, assuming you cube all of those runes up, you'll get an Ist's worth about every 500 runs. Of course, there is a lot of variation with such small probability events, but that's "average".

    The Hellforge drops a nice even distribution, and assuming you do the NM forge too and cube Puls and up, you get on average 0.39 Ists worth per rushed char.

    Comparing those two then, if you can rush a char to Hell HF in less time than it takes to do ~200 Countess runs, it is more efficient. That is very much dependent on the individual. also bear in mind that while doing one rush in under 200 Countess runs is probably very difficult, they are typically done 6 rushes at a time, and rushing a pack of 6 through in under 1200 Countess runs is a lot easier.

    There are too many variables involved in Chest running to really do this justice. Chests, particularly sparkly chests, have an excellent chance to drop runes. Also, you can gear a char to be a chest runner, no offence required, just defence and speed. But I am unable to give you comparable numbers. It has been estimated that in Hell Lower Kurast, which has an extraordinary concentration of chests, you can expect a little under 2 runes per run. LK chests can drop up to Ber. Taking rarity into account that means you expect about 0.012 Ists worth per run. On those numbers if you can do a LK clear in less time than it takes to do 6 or 7 Countess runs, you might be better off there. Again, it is not obvious which is better.

    You could try running chests in Acts 4 or 5 too, but you won't find anywhere that has the same concentration as LK. Despite the chance of a Zod drop, hard to suggest a good place to try (maybe the Halls above Nihlathak?)

    Definitely not bosses. Nope nope nope. They are for items, they are crap for runes.

    Slaughtering vast numbers of regular monsters is the other obvious way. Cows are still the best, because they have a good rune drop rate, they can drop Zods, and they come in large quantities. As long as you can kill them quick, of course. Figure 500 Cows per clear (conservatively), in a solo game they drop roughly 1 rune per 500 Cows ie one per level clear. In a full game, it is about 2.5 runes per clear, but of course that's 4.5 times the total Cow hit points to chop through. Assuming again that you cube up all runes Pul and above, you expect about 0.040 Ists worth per solo Cow clear (or about 0.1 per full game Cow clear). Important - Bear in mind that this could well be one high rune worth 10s of Ists followed by 100 runs of nothing. Or it could be a whole bunch of Mals and Ums which you'd have to cube up. There is a lot of randomness involved. It certainly won't be an Ist every 10 clears.
    So, anyway, if you can beat 20 Countess runs to clear the Cow level in a solo game (or 50 for a full game) then that could be best for you.

    That's about the comparisons. If you want to time your best chars for each run (and not just one, do several for the faster ones and average it) I can tell you more exactly which is most efficient for you.
     
  3. shermo

    shermo IncGamers Member

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    I'll throw in my 2 cents.

    My LK map dropped ~ 2 runes per run and took me ~ 2:45 to run. A run included sewers lvl2 also. That map took me a lot of tries to get so I expect on bnet both your expected number of runes per run and the length it takes you to do a run will be much worse.

    I figure:
    Best place to find jah-zod = cows
    Best place to find Lo-Ber = LK runs
    Best place for anything else = Forge rushing
     
  4. Myrakh-2

    Myrakh-2 IncGamers Member

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    Do keep in mind a few pracitcal issues with the numbers Thrugg gave.

    Rushing 6 mules in one pack is only possible for "pro" players --- not many people have 7 CD keys (I even find that I'm an exception with just 2 keys). In addition, it is unlikely that you can find a baal4quest game with 6 or 7 open slots, so you need to split up baal into smaller packages --- so you could rush 7 mules as well (I suppose 6 is for the baal games).

    Max player cow games (what happened to the theory that drops max out at 4-5 players? I'm still assuming they do...) only give you more runes IF you somehow manage to keep everyone else in other areas, or you have both pickit and a close-range killer (since your pickit competing with 7 other pickits still means that only one char gets the loot)

    All running, except for the forges, tends to turn healthy human brains into pudding unless you have a bot available to do it. I found I can't repeat the same boring thing more than a very few times...

    So, for all these reasons, I prefer hellforge: the runes are guaranteed, the chance for good ones isn't bad, you get to rush random people through normal and nightmare (I almost never rush through hell, except A2, simply because I don't use pickit *and* only have ranged chars...), and you pass through all the acts. Since I don't have a sorc anyway I even switch chars --- using my Strafer until A3 nightmare (when Dolls and OKs can turn into problems), and possibly A1/A2 hell again (I always skip hell maggot lair, though :)), and my necro for the other parts.

    I'm also sure that properly equipped rushers --- godly sorc gear and maphack --- can do it *much* faster than I can.
     
  5. Frosty_The_Snowman

    Frosty_The_Snowman IncGamers Member

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    The most efficient way I have found is Hellforge runs indeed. I usually rush all my mules to hell with the following quests completed in all difficulties :

    - Charsi Imbue Quest
    - Hellforge Rune
    - Larzuk Socketing Quest
    - Free the Barbarians for the Crafting Runes

    So all my mules are Champions, level 8 or better. It usually takes me 2-3 hours only to fully complete such a Hell mule. So, not only it is the fastest way to have a chance to get 1-2 nice runes, but also I end up with a mule that can join every game (very useful for trading) and I get 3 Larzuk socketing quests, 9-10 crafting runes, 3 imbue possibilities, 3 perfect gems, 6 flawless gems, and very often, nice Items because of the first drops on Diablo, Baal, Duriel, Andy, etc...
     
  6. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Drops don't "max out" at all, a nodrop is still possible at players 8. Act bosses can have their nodrop reduced to 0 however. For Andariel, this requires 5 or more players.
     
  7. Wrathchild

    Wrathchild IncGamers Member

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    my opinion about this is rather straight. don't search for highrunes
    youll just waste time. if you go search for a highrune you'll probably do those runs for a few years. besides the price of highrunes is extremely low, and a new player will probably come up with a highrune worth items in 2 weeks.
    I've played lod for 3 years and my highest rune i ever found was mal (gul from hf), so i wouldn't even try.
    actually you two who said you found a zod i dont really believe you :f

    for nice runes, hellforges are best, as myrakh told.
    for getting wealthy meph is best choice
     
  8. Superhal

    Superhal IncGamers Member

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    great replies all thanks.

    my reason for asking this question is that i'm bored, so i try to think of good builds. i already have a good idea on what a good cowkiller is (hybrid zon or pnb necro or hammerdin), and i'm thinking about a chest opener (ES sorc or dual ali baba barb.) i have a pretty good system for self rushing, which involves eq and solo play, but i can only do it with different sorc builds as all other classes become mind-numbingly boring especially in the a1 hamster mazes. after looking at the stats on charge, a pally boss/champion killer might not be such a bad idea. i have a countess killer already, and hell countess is a much better rune dropper than she was before (i remember going to nm for crafting runes because she seldom dropped 2 or even 1 rune in hell.)

    my previous ladder strategy was the solo rushing and hellforge. i got up to ohm+6 ists+2 mals+3 vex, with another ohm found from pindle's garden, i guess i could say i got up to lo doing it like this, with a char up to hellforge within @8 hours, not including joining baal games, and doing the shenk/rescue quests. iirc, it took about 12 sorcs to do this, and i got really lucky with a stretch of 6 ists in a row. now, i could probably shave off another hour thanks to the preponderance of tristram runs. but, i'm running out of different kinds of sorcs to use. as almost all sorcs are pretty weak dual tree (killing power issues) or single tree (immune issues) i haven't found that perfect build yet.

    one thing that intrigued me was doing a sorc baal runner. the big issue, for me, was having enough killing power for baal himself. a pure blizz or meteor is barely enough, imho, for killing baal. it still takes well over 2 minutes, which is why i am attracted to a chargadin.
     
  9. Pherdnut

    Pherdnut IncGamers Member

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    Hell Forge is probably the most predictable way to get HRs quick by getting Ists and Guls and trading up. I like cows for the possibility of getting really nice socketables and suddenly getting 5 HRs all at once (soooo close so many times, but always just one thing not quite right with an item)
     
  10. edhiggins

    edhiggins IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    For the first time in 7 years I have been able to not die all the time in Hell act 1 for Tower runs for runes. Anything past Tower I die all the time. Problem is Hell Tower and Nightmare Tower runes are about the same. Have not found anything higher than a lo rune and that was in Nightmare as far as Hell Tower nothing higher than sol...Is this normal? I see where I am told to do LK runes but that does not work as I die with in a few seconds.

    What now?

    Ed
     
  11. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    Build a more solid character. :crazyeyes:

    Seriously though, your survivability problems shouldn't be very significant. Maybe die once every ~200 runs until level75, then once every ~500 runs until you climb to about level~90, and after that point you should be virtually invincible. For me, that holds true with about all of my MFers in just about any area (and usually when I die it's because I'm trying to squeak through without drinking a potion, which is easily avoidable).

    Practice improves your survivability too (and, eventually, the good items will start to accumulate with more practice), so keep running. I'd start with figuring out how to survive first, and then worry about hunting.


    As for Hell vs. NM Countess, the odds aren't that different - nor are they very good for a higher rune. It's something like 96% (cumulative) chance to drop runes Io and lower in Hell, so 96 times out of 100 you're going to find the same runes as in Nightmare... and the other 4 times you'll probably find a Lum.



     
  12. jgb

    jgb IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    Ok well i have read what you all are saying about finding HRs. I disagree about killing bosses being bad place. i have found 7 ists in the past week on countess and one HR drop by Duriel whom always drops junk. That is all in Hardcore mode this ladder season. 3-4 seasons ago i also found a HR from the necro that drops destruction keys in act five.
     
  13. Sass

    Sass IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    Bosses can certainly drop them, but the kill speed makes them far from as effective as running an area with a lot of easy monsters who are each capable of dropping them.
     
  14. JsTc

    JsTc IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    chance of a Vex+ is roughly 1 in 160 rune drops, from monsters that can drop up to Jah or above. So run hell cows and chaos and start counting.
     
  15. Black Lotus

    Black Lotus IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    Requesting an info update. I'm strongly suspicious that chest (SCs also) drops is toned down in 1.13, as i haven't get a single unique (even set) since ladder reset (i run pit every game), also i eventually got no runes (even low ones) from 10+ lower kurast chest runs. I wonder if there is an exact drop rate chart for 1.13 chests.
     
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2010
  16. GibItam

    GibItam IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    10 is very low for running lower kurast, some SPF(single player forum-ers)-ers have hit LK over 10.000 runs. If you want to read more about 1.13 LK high rune patterns click the link:
    http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764531

    You might also be interested in running travincal (most used is a barb because of find item skill). I myself also do this and already have gotten an Ohm, Ber and Vex from travincal. More info about that here:
    http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=752554


     
  17. Black Lotus

    Black Lotus IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    Thanks for the input.
    I questioned this because of
    As I mentioned, I did approximately 10 runs (supposed to be 'a little under 20 runes', and even 20low runes constitute a Pul in bnet), but there was no runes at all.
    As I suspect, this thread is considered to be useful for single players, as their wonderful /p7 command rolls the chances over, making those runs useful. Are those numbers of 2 runes per run the p7, not p1 situation?
     
  18. hubb

    hubb IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    That's just chance. I've done full chaos clears where a single rune doesn't drop for 5 or more runs. This week I've found 3 Ists in 3 days. There's really no way you can make any kind of conclusion about drop rates without doing hundreds or thousands of runs ;)
     
  19. GibItam

    GibItam IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    Now I understand your remark better. I first want to state that I am not an expert on Lower kurast running.

    I have done maybe 100 runs myself and my highest find is a pul rune (from Lower Kurast). In Lower Kurast I am looking
    for the special chestst, that are located near camp fires in huts in Lower Kurast. On players 8 setting they sometimes drop more items than I can see when viewing for items by pressing Alt. I think this is mostly done by single players because:
    1) You get a static map, you reroll maps until you find a good layout for LK and rerun it x times until you have your HR
    2) You can make quick runs without getting a Realm down.
    3) Players /x command. This increases the quantity of items that drop. However online you can do this by joining baalruns or other full games and run LK there.

    The things I know about the special chest popping is that it is not affected by mf and that if the first item is rare all items will be rare. If you have more questions I would advise to post them in the previously linked thread as more knowledgeable people will then read and answer your question :coffee:


     
  20. nydo

    nydo IncGamers Member

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    Re: high rune hunting

    Regarding the special chest in the Pit level 2, it is true that the item level is determined and remains consistent for each incident. Yesterday, I did get a unique drop from the chest, and it spawned 3 uniques in a one player game on battle-net. The item selection had no real value (broad axe, military axe, and one other low level unique of no value that I didn't pick up), but it was all uniques. The same has happened with set items and rares. There is a procedure of checks that determines this then keeps checking until the final number of drops is arrived at that I have read about, probably somewhere on these forums.
     

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