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Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by tax, Jun 1, 2008.

  1. tax

    tax IncGamers Member

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    Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    Greetings and salutations, I'm new to this board and pretty new to playing diablo seriously. however I do have a few questions that i havent been able to find any good and/or clear enough answer too by searching this board or google.

    I have a lvl ~73ish sorc (hardcore) that uses frozen orb and firewall, I play mostly with my friends over TCP/IP or solo. I got most of the Tal Rasha's wrapping (not sure if spelt correctly), and other stuff from nightmare Mephisto runs.
    I recently discovered this runeword thing and wonder if you people know any good runeword items thats most likely better than what im using? I mostly need resistances and defensive stuff. like everyone else I guess =).
    Also a hint how to get the runes would be appreciated. (I know the item description is vague but I dont have access to my character and internet at the same time).

    Also I'm starting a second hardcore character, a paladin or "zealot" as I think the build is referred to. sacrifice, zeal, fatanism, holy shield ("correct"?)

    anyhow I need help placing my attribute points and maybe a few runeword tips here aswell. I know i should have alot in vitality, no energy, strength so i can equip my items... but how much strength should i get? not counting any bonus, to be able to wield anything that would make sense for a paladin to wield? also how much should I take in dex to keep block-rate and attack-rate at a good level?

    and is there something I should use my sorc to get so i can twink him abit at the start?

    thank you for taking the time to read my post, I hope I choose the correct section, and sorry for making the post abit long.
     
  2. AgentMarth

    AgentMarth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    10 characters dumb limit



     
  3. tax

    tax IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    thanks for the quick reply, really help'd me out.

    And about the meteorb thing... I will probebly make a new sorc soon as I dont like the fw spell that much and I also put alot of points into energy witch apparently is a big no no.. is that because you, with 20 warmth and other bonuses will regen so fast so you can spam you spells anyway?

    meteorb is main fire with cold as secondary? or is it more like 50/50? because almost everything seems to be immune to fire in later difficulties =/
    I've heard about chainlightning/orb builds (or was it the otherway around?) maybe I will try one of those. the orb is a must have anyway sense it looks cool and is extremely good at slowing the enemies
     
  4. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    For runewords, take a look at the Arreat Summit (browse around there a while, there's a bunch of good information about items). However, you can basically ignore anything that involves runes Vex and above if you're playing single player or otherwise not going to play with duped items, as the highest runes are nearly impossible to find. The Countess always drops a rune or two when killed, so she is a good source of low or mid runes.

    And take note of the rules for runewords
    -The item must have the exact number of sockets.
    -The runes must be in the exact order.
    -The item CANNOT be magic, rare, set, unique, or crafted. Plain/superior items only (and yes, they're still counted as plain/superior if they're ethereal). So don't waste your runes on an Artisan's armor of the whale or something like that, it won't work.


    For your paladin, I would go with around 120 strength since that gives you a little more room for choices, which is especially important if you don't have endgame gear already laid out. Dexterity, just pick a good shield and try to get max (75%) block with it. Your chance to block is shown when you hover over defense in the char screen. To get your attack rating higher, it's MUCH better to use charms or other equipment rather than points in dex (dex = really inefficient).



    Back to the sorceress: Firewall really needs a good mercenary to keep monsters in place. Though from experience I know that the doubled up timered spells can be annoying at times. It's okay to put a few points in energy if you don't have a huge item base to work off of, but you generally get enough mana from leveling and from items to work fine without a huge investment; you can get over a hundred mana alone from a single ring- that's over 10 levels worth of stat points in energy!).

    Meteorb relies on fireball (yes, fireball! the name confuses lots of people...) as a primary attack and orb as the secondary. It's a good all-around build that can do bosses fairly easily. Chain Lightning/Orb is fine too, but is more suited to running areas rather than single targets. CL/FO is also an excellent Countess runner, since the countess is always fire and cold immune in hell difficulty. There is also the "Blizzball" build, but I haven't had any experience with that, and it doesn't use orb.
     
  5. AgentMarth

    AgentMarth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    Nimbostratus covered the rest quite well, but I wanted to comment on this a bit.

    Thats why I mentioned Insight. It has a level 12-17 Meditation aura (the Mana regen aura) when equipped. So once it is on your Merc, you pretty much never need to worry about mana again. If you put it on a Act 2 Prayer Merc, due to how Prayer synergies with Med, you get a double healing bonus. At high enough levels, it can be 40-50 life a pulse. In HC, that can be oh so nice to have.

    Points in energy can be nice early on, but I would rather save them, have a slight tougher time early on, and enjoy the benefits later. Mana charms help loads too.



     
  6. tax

    tax IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    so, what would be a good cl/orb build?
    like 20 orb
    1 coldmastery
    20 cl
    20 light mastery

    afew points in static field, and 20 in that defence skill in the lightning tree? or would like 15 points be enough? (not that much bonus later on right?) and can i still put no attributes in energy considering the defence skill?

    and what synergies to cl whould i max first? or wont that matter?

    @agent: ah then I understand, and I think I will do that =) thanks

    edit: also about the high lvl runes, cant you make them by combining lots of low lvl runes? and wont they drop from anyone? or is it 0.00001% of that happening?
     
  7. Nimbostratus

    Nimbostratus IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    Look at the build guides in the character-specific forums. Static field and the cold armors should be left at just one point. It doesn't take that many +skills to increase Static field to a safe range, and the cold armors are really just used for the chilling/freezing (the sorceress generally doesn't have enough defense to make the def% boost worthwhile). I think the build for CL/FO is max FO, CL, lightning, and lightning mastery, rest in the other lightning synergy and/or cold mastery (though make sure you still get 1 point in the masteries right away).

    You CAN make high runes by cubing up the lower runes, it's just that you have to keep in mind that even the "mid" runes are fairly difficult to find on their own. I saw a thread before that calculated the number of Els needed to get to Zod, and IIRC, the number was higher than we have an actual word for. Many monsters can drop high runes, it's just far too low a chance to actually go looking for them.



     
  8. Tai.

    Tai. IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    High runes, that is basically anything above Gul drop so infrequently you can basically count on it never happening and not be disappointed. You can cube runes up, but for example if you want a Vex and you have Mals (a decent forge drop to be sure) you need 8 of them to make a Vex (2 for an Ist, 2 Ists or 4 Mals for a Gul and 2 Guls or 8 Mals for a Vex) from that point on you're it gets twice as hard per rune.

    If you don't want to deal with dupers you basically need to restrict yourself to Gul and below, though it is certainly possible to do mass Forge Rushes and cube up a couple of higher runes if you're devoted to the cause. This still leave you tons of viable runewords, so no worries there:

    Polearms:
    Crescent Moon (3)
    Insight (4)
    Obedience (5)

    Armor:
    Lionheart (3)
    Smoke (2)
    Duress (3)
    Stone (4)
    Stealth (2)
    Treachery (3)

    Shields:
    Sanctuary (3)
    Rhyme (2)
    Splendor (2) (mostly for Necro heads)
    Spirit (4)

    Weapons:
    Spirit (4)
    White (2)
    Oath (4)
    Black (3)

    Helms:
    Delirium (3)
    Lore (2)

    Of course this is nowhere near a complete list of viable and cheap runewords, just ones that I still find powerful even with the wealth i've accumulated

    Also remember that you can use Runes in combination with gems to upgrade rare and unique items and to socket items. The most common trick is to cube socket an ethereal armor which causes the game to reapply the 150% defense bonus to the armor and turn a 700 defense armor into 1000 with a random number of sockets, perfect for your merc.

    I prefer to run Hell cows and countess for my runes, though as stated before forge is a viable alternative.
     
  9. tax

    tax IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    im not a big fan of cold armours, the one i thought of was "Energy Shield" should i max that one or settle for something else?

    thanks for the info on the runes Nimbostratus and Tai. will settle with the gul rune then =)
     
  10. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    Insight and Spirit are both ladder only folks ~_~
     
  11. AgentMarth

    AgentMarth IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    Hence me saying in my first post. "One thing to note though, "Spirit" and "Insight" are ladder only runewords, so to use on single player, you need the Runeword Mod. Head over to the SP forums for more details."

    Its is actually better to max Telekinesis for the low Mana taken instead of Life ratio is gives. With decent plus skills, you can get away with a low investment in ES. However, with a CL/FO build, you can't afford the skill points to do so without having pitiful damage.



     
  12. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    Ah, that is hidden in that large block of ugly italicized text. I read various other posts looking for mention of that, but couldn't bring myself to more than skim the first one ~_~
    Does the mod enable cube recipes too?


    Lies.
    SS+upped viper actually gives a fairly respectable amount of def, and since sorcies port instead of running it's not getting reduced. Between armour&defiance merc you can get a rather significant amount of def on a decently geared sorc. Not to be expected on a NM geared SP one though, obviously, but you say "generally".

    I'm not sure if anyone puts more than 1 point in warmth any more. Aside from insight:
    1) You can always drink blues. There's no potion to increase your damage.
    2) Mana regen is based on mana pool, with no mana regen your bulb regens in (I think) 3 minutes regardless of if you have 30 or 3000. Especially in HC, most people have rather low mana pools, ~600-800 on sorcies with mediocre gear, ~1500 on the ones with good gear, a few people may try the ES build with huge mana pools but that's an exception. As such warmth doesn't really provide all that much mana/second.
    3) Given the above, maxing teleport results in MUCH more mana/second available while teleporting. If you're running around cows spamming L/CL this isn't a big deal, but doing meph/andy/countess/baal/etc runs, the bulk of the time and/or danger is in the teleporting, so it makes more sense to put your points there if you have them to spare. Hybrids don't have the points to spare on either spell though.

    Similar to meteorb having a confusing name... Lighting is the spell to spam between orbs with this build in most circumstances. It does higher damage. With lower mana. And it's an ACTUAL aoe instead of something with multiple targets. What I'd probably do leveling one is get orb maxed with 1 in cm first, then max light, get one in lm, then max cl, then finish off lm. That's probably technically wrong, the "right" way to do synergies/masteries is to look at the skill planner and figure out which one will give you more damage as it changes depending on your +skills, level of mastery, level of synergies, but just as a general rule synergy beats mastery.



     
  13. tax

    tax IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    so if Lighting is the spell I will use why do I bother getting chainlighting ? or is that what im gonna use at high lvls?

    and about the energy shield, should I skip it or spend just afew points there? and will the mana/regen be able to support the shield?
     
  14. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    You get chain as a synergy.
    A few sample numbers, with +5 sorc skills:
    20 light 1 chain 20 lm, light = 2011
    20 light 20 chain 1 lm, light = 2228
    20 light 11 chain 10 lm, light = 2468

    So like I said, as a general rule you go synergy before mastery, but if you want to get the absolute most damage every level, look at the skill planner every time you have a point to place somewhere. I usually don't bother doing that as I fly through the levels quickly enough it doesn't matter, but you might feel like it. Note that 11/10 likely isn't the most efficient split either... I'm not going to sit here and do ALL the work for you though ^^

    The other reason to get chain is that although 90% of the time lightning is the spell to cast, there are cases where you want chain, eg if there's 5 monsters sitting around that are ranged so you can't herd them and too spread out for lightning to hit more than 1 at a time you might want to use chain instead.

    As for ES, I'd put 1 point in it because you already have all the prereqs for it anyways and it can't hurt to have if you decide you want to use it. However, I likely wouldn't have it up very often, as without great gear or TK it's going to be draining huge chunks of mana.



     
  15. tax

    tax IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    ah ok, but how can "20 light 1 chain 20 lm", do less than "20 light 20 chain 1 lm"?
    as you get 12% damage from each lvl of lm (the wiki said so) and the synergies gives 8% each. or did I miss something?
     
  16. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    3*5 = 15
    2*7 = 14
    1*13 = 13

    Since +skills effect LM but not synergy, and LM also starts off at a higher number, the LM multiplier is going to be fairly high with just 1 point in it, but the synergy multiplier won't be. It's not the sum of the multipliers that you're interested in, just the product, hence the word multipliers being used ~_~
     
  17. tax

    tax IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    ah then I think I understand, so for max final damage I should put my points in Chainlightning, Nova and Charged Bolt, and 1 point in lm and get +skill gear.
    (after I max Lightning and frozen orb)
     
  18. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    Not quite sorry, guess I was a bit unclear.
    That general rule is just for the first synergy vs mastery... unless you've got VERY good gear (somewhere over +20 skills) you're better off doing mastery before the second synergy.

    So max light > 1 LM > max cl > finish LM > worry about other synergies is the simple approach if you don't feel like looking at the skill planner (google it, we can't link it here) every level.



     
  19. tax

    tax IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    ah, thanks alot mate. I'm gonna do it that way =)
    also I just got one final question, how much is the strength req of the "best" things for a sorc? I've read that you should have everything from 82-120 points strenght total, any thoughts on this?
     
  20. Jaedhann

    Jaedhann IncGamers Member

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    Re: Hi, I need sorc and paladin help

    All 'ladder only' recipies work on single player aswell. No mod needed.



     

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