Herald of Zakarum
- Thread starter Irenicusg
- Start date
BAMFSpecialOps
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
Overall its a nice balanced shield and can be used at a mid level.
Overall its a nice balanced shield and can be used at a mid level.
Foolishpleazure
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
Not to mention that,with a HOZ,you dont have to put as many points in DEX to achieve Max Block
Not to mention that,with a HOZ,you dont have to put as many points in DEX to achieve Max Block
AlabasterFilth
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
I'd say this shield is most useful for hammerdin spec. A perfect (Upped, perfect %ED, socketed with Um) or near-perfect (Upped, high %ED, socketed with pDiamond) is really the best hammerdin shield in the game. If you're making other types of paladins, it's still a great shield, but it's not the end-game shield.
I'd say this shield is most useful for hammerdin spec. A perfect (Upped, perfect %ED, socketed with Um) or near-perfect (Upped, high %ED, socketed with pDiamond) is really the best hammerdin shield in the game. If you're making other types of paladins, it's still a great shield, but it's not the end-game shield.
Re: Herald of Zakarum
Could someone explain the benefits of HoZ over Spirit to me? This is mainly from a FCR perspective. I know HoZ offers +a few more skills and +Dex +Vit over spirit, but with HoZ you cannot reach the last FCR breakpoint, 125%
With a +45 all res Spirit shield you get 80/80/45/80 all res, and +35% FCR(Just reroll until you get it)
Right now I have:
Nigma
Hoto (40%)
Arach (20%)
Magefists (20%)
Spirit Shield (35%)
FCR Ring (or you can use ammy) (10%)
=125%
The benefits of meeting this breakpoint really shine with both teleporting and hammering, and thus I cannot bring myself to buy a HoZ and lose the FCR.
Correct me if I am wrong, but with HoZ it seems like you are giving up something that cannot be gotten elsewhere (FCR) for something that can (Dex, Vit).
(Yes I know can Magi could be used here, but come on, no one is going to choose Magi over Nigma. Also if you used a 20% FCR Circlet over Shako, and didn't use Spirit, then you would HAVE to use 2 FCR rings AND an FCR Ammy to hit 125% fcr)
Could someone explain the benefits of HoZ over Spirit to me? This is mainly from a FCR perspective. I know HoZ offers +a few more skills and +Dex +Vit over spirit, but with HoZ you cannot reach the last FCR breakpoint, 125%
With a +45 all res Spirit shield you get 80/80/45/80 all res, and +35% FCR(Just reroll until you get it)
Right now I have:
Nigma
Hoto (40%)
Arach (20%)
Magefists (20%)
Spirit Shield (35%)
FCR Ring (or you can use ammy) (10%)
=125%
The benefits of meeting this breakpoint really shine with both teleporting and hammering, and thus I cannot bring myself to buy a HoZ and lose the FCR.
Correct me if I am wrong, but with HoZ it seems like you are giving up something that cannot be gotten elsewhere (FCR) for something that can (Dex, Vit).
(Yes I know can Magi could be used here, but come on, no one is going to choose Magi over Nigma. Also if you used a 20% FCR Circlet over Shako, and didn't use Spirit, then you would HAVE to use 2 FCR rings AND an FCR Ammy to hit 125% fcr)
AlabasterFilth
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
I think you underestimate the value of an additional +2 points in combat skills.
?This gives an additional +2 into blessed hammer, which, at higher levels, gives a huge increase in damage. Hammer damage is priority #1. I haven't done specific calculations, but I'm pretty sure the extra damage from 2 more levels of B. hammer outweighs the 1 frame less casting time you get from the 125% FCR breakpoint.
?This also gives an additional +2 into holy shield. Max block is essential for hammerdins, and 2 more points into holy shield means less dex you'll have to spend, and thus you can spend those points into vitality instead, at 4 life per point. In addition, HoZ has better blocking than any pally shield. This translates into even less points in dex, and even more into vitality.
-Using a HoZ and thus not worrying about the 125% breakpoint allows you to substitute an SoJ for the FCR ring. Using an SoJ brings you up to an additional +3 to your B. hammer over using spirit setup, adds +1 to concentration (more damage), and adds +1 holy shield (less dex = more life)
-spirit gives you +22 vitality, which is good, but HoZ gives +20 dex (that's 20 less dex to spend to reach max block, +20 vitality), gives +30% blocking (less dex to achieve max block = more vitality), and gives an additional +2 to holy shield that Spirit does not (better holy shield = less dex to spend to achieve max block = more vitality). Overall, HoZ gives more life than spirit.
-HoZ with Um gives 72/72/72/72, perfect pally spirit shield gives 80/80/45/80. HoZ is a tiny bit better overall in resistance department, but not substantially so
-spirit gives 55% FHR. This is big, and is defintely an advantage that spirit has over using a HoZ.
So, essentially you are trading 125% FCR breakpoint & 55% FHR for a lot more life (BOable life I might add), an extra +3 to B. hammer/extra +1 to conc, and little bit better resists.
Good arguments for both, it probably really comes down to personal taste and playstyle. I like my hammer damage to be maxed, and I want as much life as possible, so I go for 10-frame cast, max-block, max-life HoZ setup.
I think you underestimate the value of an additional +2 points in combat skills.
?This gives an additional +2 into blessed hammer, which, at higher levels, gives a huge increase in damage. Hammer damage is priority #1. I haven't done specific calculations, but I'm pretty sure the extra damage from 2 more levels of B. hammer outweighs the 1 frame less casting time you get from the 125% FCR breakpoint.
?This also gives an additional +2 into holy shield. Max block is essential for hammerdins, and 2 more points into holy shield means less dex you'll have to spend, and thus you can spend those points into vitality instead, at 4 life per point. In addition, HoZ has better blocking than any pally shield. This translates into even less points in dex, and even more into vitality.
-Using a HoZ and thus not worrying about the 125% breakpoint allows you to substitute an SoJ for the FCR ring. Using an SoJ brings you up to an additional +3 to your B. hammer over using spirit setup, adds +1 to concentration (more damage), and adds +1 holy shield (less dex = more life)
-spirit gives you +22 vitality, which is good, but HoZ gives +20 dex (that's 20 less dex to spend to reach max block, +20 vitality), gives +30% blocking (less dex to achieve max block = more vitality), and gives an additional +2 to holy shield that Spirit does not (better holy shield = less dex to spend to achieve max block = more vitality). Overall, HoZ gives more life than spirit.
-HoZ with Um gives 72/72/72/72, perfect pally spirit shield gives 80/80/45/80. HoZ is a tiny bit better overall in resistance department, but not substantially so
-spirit gives 55% FHR. This is big, and is defintely an advantage that spirit has over using a HoZ.
So, essentially you are trading 125% FCR breakpoint & 55% FHR for a lot more life (BOable life I might add), an extra +3 to B. hammer/extra +1 to conc, and little bit better resists.
Good arguments for both, it probably really comes down to personal taste and playstyle. I like my hammer damage to be maxed, and I want as much life as possible, so I go for 10-frame cast, max-block, max-life HoZ setup.
Re: Herald of Zakarum
Spirit is +2 all skills, it looks like you thought it was +1?
So you gain +2 p combat from HoZ, not +1 all, +3 p combat.
I know that damage difference between +1 all skills gives ~500 damage to hammers, so I am guessing that +1 pcomabat would give ~250 dmg. So all things equal, you would be doing 500 more dmg then me, but my hammers would come out first, (PvM and PvP wise)
But you raised a lot of great points, +2 to holy shield and other pcombats besides hammers do help, and of course the Vit and Dex.
I would have to agree, it's all about personal preference. Right now I'm in the spirit camp, but I guess I should try HoZ at one point before I dismiss it
Likewise I think everyone should try a +45 a res/ 35% fcr spirit!
HoZ=Spirit
Spirit is +2 all skills, it looks like you thought it was +1?
So you gain +2 p combat from HoZ, not +1 all, +3 p combat.
I know that damage difference between +1 all skills gives ~500 damage to hammers, so I am guessing that +1 pcomabat would give ~250 dmg. So all things equal, you would be doing 500 more dmg then me, but my hammers would come out first, (PvM and PvP wise)
But you raised a lot of great points, +2 to holy shield and other pcombats besides hammers do help, and of course the Vit and Dex.
I would have to agree, it's all about personal preference. Right now I'm in the spirit camp, but I guess I should try HoZ at one point before I dismiss it
Likewise I think everyone should try a +45 a res/ 35% fcr spirit!
HoZ=Spirit
Garisdacar
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
hoz is generally pretty good for a zealot, that's what i use. not sure if exile is better (i've never owned one so...)
hoz is generally pretty good for a zealot, that's what i use. not sure if exile is better (i've never owned one so...)
Nightvizion
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
I don't want to Hi-Jack this thread, but I have a question relating to a HoZ.
Would it be worth it to Upgrade the HoZ then stick an Um/Pdiamond in it, or should I not upgrade it at all?
I don't want to Hi-Jack this thread, but I have a question relating to a HoZ.
Would it be worth it to Upgrade the HoZ then stick an Um/Pdiamond in it, or should I not upgrade it at all?
Garisdacar
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
if you want to use it on a smiter, upgrade it. but a hoz has a chance of having even lower def when upgraded than it had before, b/c instead of using max+1 def before applying ed, it rerolls to the new base item def, which could end up lower.
if not smiting, no reason to risk getting lower def.
if you want to use it on a smiter, upgrade it. but a hoz has a chance of having even lower def when upgraded than it had before, b/c instead of using max+1 def before applying ed, it rerolls to the new base item def, which could end up lower.
if not smiting, no reason to risk getting lower def.
BAMFSpecialOps
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
Spirit is better for a hammerdin, 10k hammers are enough in pvm or pvp, and with the extra frame you are actually going to dish out the same if not more dmg than adding a few more skill points.
For a smiter up the HOZ for a hammerdin there is not really a point, when ladder is about to reset is a good time to up HOZ's as they fetch a fair amount on NL.
Spirit is better for a hammerdin, 10k hammers are enough in pvm or pvp, and with the extra frame you are actually going to dish out the same if not more dmg than adding a few more skill points.
For a smiter up the HOZ for a hammerdin there is not really a point, when ladder is about to reset is a good time to up HOZ's as they fetch a fair amount on NL.
lumpor
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
I think spirit is better for a hammerdin too. Those extra points to holy shield won't do much, since holy shield has such diminishing returns in the blocking bonus, and hammerdins (and almost all paladins) focus their +skills on combat skills. HoZ does have higher blocking, more dex bonus, etc, which gives alot of life, but seriously, you're a hammerdin! Who cares about life except if playing hc? Also, a perfect spirit gives more lightning res than HoZ, which is the most important resist. Cold resistance is hardly important at all.
I think spirit is better for a hammerdin too. Those extra points to holy shield won't do much, since holy shield has such diminishing returns in the blocking bonus, and hammerdins (and almost all paladins) focus their +skills on combat skills. HoZ does have higher blocking, more dex bonus, etc, which gives alot of life, but seriously, you're a hammerdin! Who cares about life except if playing hc? Also, a perfect spirit gives more lightning res than HoZ, which is the most important resist. Cold resistance is hardly important at all.
Painman
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
Well, I haven't said anything about what I actually prefer (since I have but 1 Pally to date and have never actually found/used HoZ) but I do own a pretty nice 43 base res, 32 FCR Spirit ST.
And yeah, my guy's a Hammerdin - I was gonna start out with a Zealot, but I gambled a +2 pcomb/20 FCR/[email protected] circlet, then found this ST, and I guess the game was trying to tell me something.
It's a beautiful shield. Later on when this guy finishes Hell (he just started it) I plan on using him for some area MF, and this will help keep him in max res territory with 125% FCR while wearing a Wealth armor. I got him to 125% FCR pretty early on, and I really don't want to sling hammers any slower than that. Density of hammer field seems to be pretty crucial. He'll be using Wiz Spike for now while MFing so his damage will drop, but quantity already seems to outweigh quality with hammers.
Not that there's no quality - he's only lvl 72, and he's @ 4.1K hammer damage with max Hammer, max Vigor, 10 each in Conc and B. Aim. There is much more damage potential to be tapped, and he's already beating the crap out of stuff in a 2 player Hell game.
People like to slam the Hammy for being the ultimate no-brainer build. When you're still somewhat poor on Ladder like me, and you want an alternate MFer to your Sorc, you build a Fishymancer or one of these guys. He's damn good, and I'd have to say that the availability of a good Spirit is part of the reason.
Why would I replace his shield? Only for a better base. I'll attempt Ubers with him later on with a smiter gear swap, that'll involve a 4 pdiamond Sacred Rondache that I found, but that Spirit is a key piece of equipment for this guy. HoZ, I think, would only make his mission more complicated right now.
Well, I haven't said anything about what I actually prefer (since I have but 1 Pally to date and have never actually found/used HoZ) but I do own a pretty nice 43 base res, 32 FCR Spirit ST.
And yeah, my guy's a Hammerdin - I was gonna start out with a Zealot, but I gambled a +2 pcomb/20 FCR/[email protected] circlet, then found this ST, and I guess the game was trying to tell me something.
It's a beautiful shield. Later on when this guy finishes Hell (he just started it) I plan on using him for some area MF, and this will help keep him in max res territory with 125% FCR while wearing a Wealth armor. I got him to 125% FCR pretty early on, and I really don't want to sling hammers any slower than that. Density of hammer field seems to be pretty crucial. He'll be using Wiz Spike for now while MFing so his damage will drop, but quantity already seems to outweigh quality with hammers.
Not that there's no quality - he's only lvl 72, and he's @ 4.1K hammer damage with max Hammer, max Vigor, 10 each in Conc and B. Aim. There is much more damage potential to be tapped, and he's already beating the crap out of stuff in a 2 player Hell game.
People like to slam the Hammy for being the ultimate no-brainer build. When you're still somewhat poor on Ladder like me, and you want an alternate MFer to your Sorc, you build a Fishymancer or one of these guys. He's damn good, and I'd have to say that the availability of a good Spirit is part of the reason.
Why would I replace his shield? Only for a better base. I'll attempt Ubers with him later on with a smiter gear swap, that'll involve a 4 pdiamond Sacred Rondache that I found, but that Spirit is a key piece of equipment for this guy. HoZ, I think, would only make his mission more complicated right now.
Painman
Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Herald of Zakarum
It's got fairly nice blocking properties, the Gris shield, but that bridge is to be crossed at some point well off in the future. Right now, my guy is focusing on the push through to Hell act 5. I still need to get my D-key runner (my Barb) fully situated.
Mister Ham is MFing already, even though he's not currently wearing a speck of it: he just found a 20 dex Raven. Good thing, because between him, a barb and a zon, I needed another one.
He just got another 5 pack of skill points delivered - this batch went into Conc. He's up to 4.7K. 15 more skill hardpoints before he's tapped out on hammer damage with current gear.
It's got fairly nice blocking properties, the Gris shield, but that bridge is to be crossed at some point well off in the future. Right now, my guy is focusing on the push through to Hell act 5. I still need to get my D-key runner (my Barb) fully situated.
Mister Ham is MFing already, even though he's not currently wearing a speck of it: he just found a 20 dex Raven.
Good thing, because between him, a barb and a zon, I needed another one.He just got another 5 pack of skill points delivered - this batch went into Conc. He's up to 4.7K. 15 more skill hardpoints before he's tapped out on hammer damage with current gear.