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help with my kicksin

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by xxtallxx, Feb 8, 2004.

  1. xxtallxx

    xxtallxx IncGamers Member

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    help with my kicksin

    ok i started to make a dtalon kicksin but then i read the sticky up top and it said not to put pts into ts if im going to use dtalon and i wanna go pure dtalon so i need help with what skills to max and where to put stat points

    the gear i was planning to use is:
    atmas
    gaze
    jadetalon
    ss
    ed armor
    dual ravens
    tgods
    +3 marts gloves or something
    and merrimadon greaves

    i have 3 marts skill charms too

    so plz help me out
     
  2. Lunatic

    Lunatic IncGamers Member

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    Since you're going to use Jade you're going need to use BoS. Otherwise your kickspeed is way to low. If I were you I switch in the Jade for bartucs. That way you can use Fade (if you can get 54% IAS). Bartucs has alot better mods , except for the resist. But Fade gives you more resist then Jade , and Fade also gives %DR and curse duration.

    IAS = ((EIAS - BoS + WSM) * 120) / (120 - (EIAS - BoS + WSM))
    IAS = ((67 - 30) * 120) / (120 - (67 - 30))
    IAS = 4440 / 83
    IAS = 54
     
  3. xxtallxx

    xxtallxx IncGamers Member

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    well i have both but my jade are damn close to perfect the the tucs have nice ed% but the rest of the stats on em blow..
     
  4. Lunatic

    Lunatic IncGamers Member

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    The only thing you need to look out for on tucs is the %LL. :) The %ed does nothing for your kicks at all. And the rest isn't variable. So get some 9% LL tucs and shael them. Then get a 15% IAS jewel in armor , helmet , shield and some 20% IAS gloves and you're set.

    Also , I wouldn't get a ED armor , you're even better off with a lionheart armor. %ed hardly does anything , unless you really have alot of it ,which you won't have with a mere 160% from your armor (if you have 4 * 40% ed jewels that is)
     
  5. xxtallxx

    xxtallxx IncGamers Member

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    so i should forget the 160ed armor n got tuckers n lionheart?
     
  6. Lunatic

    Lunatic IncGamers Member

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    The lionheart thing was only a mere suggestion. There are more good armors out there. Just look something with resist , statpoints (Str mostly , dex is also nice) , +skills. Lionheart fits this description fine. So does chains of honor. Gloom is ok too. If you can get enough resist without the armor enigma is a nice choice armor too.

    As for tucs vs Jade , just look @ the mods.
    Tucs = +2 sin / +1 MA , 20 str / dex , 9% LL , 30% FHR , 20% AR , good base speed.
    Jade = +2 MA / +2 SD , 50% all resist , 30% FHR , slower base speed.

    If you can get the resist without Jade (Fade + armor + anya help alot already) Tucs is superior to Jade in just about everything.
     
  7. xxtallxx

    xxtallxx IncGamers Member

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    alright as for skill what should i max? i was thinking dtalon,dflight,shadow master and maybe fade?
     
  8. Lunatic

    Lunatic IncGamers Member

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    I wouldn't max out Dflight. Not for pvp (I think you're talking pvp here) , not for pvm either. It's just not worth it. I would max something among the lines of this.

    Max Dtalon (duh :))
    Max Fade
    Max SM (this is a neat tank , and with the casting delay a good life tank = nice to have)
    MB is more or less nice to have @ high lvls too. So get it up to lvl 16 at least (if you're pvp). For pvm it's a 1 point wonder.

    The rest is really up to you , you will have spare points so.
     
  9. xxtallxx

    xxtallxx IncGamers Member

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    just found a pair of +3 to martial arts and 3% life leach gloves these worth using on my sin?
     
  10. Lunatic

    Lunatic IncGamers Member

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    If you can get the 54% IAS without your gloves then yes , they're worth using. :) But getting the fastest attack speed means more then getting a few more +skills. So if you don't get that IAS breakpoint , you should use some 20% IAS gloves.
     
  11. greenfire10

    greenfire10 Banned

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    +3 martial ? huh ?

    i was under the impression that gloves could have only +2 to any skill tree...

    if you didn't make a mistake i am really interested in a pair with +3 martial, so if anyone has those for sale let me know (pm).

    i would even want to buy yours, but i think you need m yourselve... anyways...

    REALLY ??????? +3 ???? :scratch:
     
  12. dallemar

    dallemar IncGamers Member

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    Instead of starting a new thread I will tag onto this one. I've also started a kicker assassin (now lvl 53 with tons of saved skills).

    she is for player vs. monster and I was thinking of spreading points out a bit - so I could have a decent shadow master AND some DS power. Now, I know if you don't tweak, you can get into trouble... but is there an argument to be made for having a mid lvl shadow master and a not maxed out synergized DS?

    Do shadow masters die constantly?

    Does DS without much synergy do anything positive other than corpse explosion?

    Also - I will add something to this discussion.

    There are two options for weapons other than katars. The Fanged Knife does 25% crushing blow as does the runeword Strength and I'm finidnig crushing blow my best friend.

    On that subject I have another question...

    ...does the blade sheild carry over the crushing blow feature?

    Thanks -

    *Zyn
     
  13. Naliworld

    Naliworld IncGamers Member

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    +1-3 MA skills can appear on magic gloves, but rare gloves can only spawn with +1-2 MA skills. However, rare gloves can spawn with 10-20% IAS in addition to +2 MA(and other useful mods like LL and +STR/DEX), which usually makes them a better choice when measured against a +3 MA skills glove.

    dallemar: Do shadow masters die constantly?
    They do in Hell, if you only have 1 point in SM.

    Does DS without much synergy do anything positive other than corpse explosion?
    Nope. The only thing you should use a low-level DS for is CE.

    ...does the blade sheild carry over the crushing blow feature?
    No.
     
  14. Lunatic

    Lunatic IncGamers Member

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    Even a DS with max synergie does a lousy lightning dmg. If you want lightning dmg go for lightning sentry. DS is only good for the CE really.
     
  15. dallemar

    dallemar IncGamers Member

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    Thanks - so... For surviving in Hell (mostly solo'ing meph... yes... i'm a kicker mfer - i will post my unusual equipment list someday)... what would serve my killing speed better?

    20 points in Shadow Master (and remaining 1 in DS and 19 in LS) - will the shadow master survive in hell if she has 20 points in her?

    or

    20 points in DS / 20 points in LS

    ?

    Thanks (btw i don't have a lot of plus skills because of mf build - I have +3 ammy atm, but that will probably be replaced with something for resists or MF at some point.)
     
  16. xxtallxx

    xxtallxx IncGamers Member

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    well i could trade em to u because im sort of looking for +3 to martial arts and 20% ias gloves so my account name is hessian-mob if u wanna whisper me some time
     
  17. Naliworld

    Naliworld IncGamers Member

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    Don't depend on your SM(even a high-level one) doing enough damage to make a difference in Hell. While there's been some discussion on SWarriors being able to a decent bit of damage with a lot of +skills, the main reason this works is because you're able to control an SWarrior uses(while an SM will have a free reign).

    I can't tell you for sure how long a maxed-out SM will last in Hell, as I haven't done that in 1.10. However, assuming you have maxed out SM and have 3 +skills, though, an SM will have 1616 life(1447 at slvl 20). That could be a lot or a bit on the low side(esp. when she's up against the like of Bone Fetishes and Urdars. She won't have to worry about Blood Lords at all, though, given her high resists), depending on which playstyle your SM adopts. However, as you yourself are going to melee, you can probably expect your SM to emulate your playstyle to a certain extent(which might put it in danger of getting killed often). It may be helpful to hack up a character in SP with a maxed SM with the no. of +skills you expect to get, and seeing how long she lasts.

    IMO, if you're not going to devote at least 60 points in Traps, don't bother with the tree at all(excepting the mandatory 1 point DS). Even with both LS and DS maxed, you're going to do pitiful damage with Traps(788 avg. per bolt with 5 +skills, and 533 avg. with no +skills), so IMO I'd use the 40 spare points in max PS and either CoT/FoF, to consolidate your points in one tree(so +MA skills, like on Jade Talons and Bartucs, will have much more effect).

    PS. Interesting build you're attempting...care to share your planned equipment?
     
  18. dallemar

    dallemar IncGamers Member

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    Well. The sad news is that once again my high lvl character has died to the Fire Enchant bug. I was trying to lvl to 71 to equip and anni and tal armor... and at 69, the host announced last run. I was being polite and thanking them for the Baal runs... was typing instead of checking for FE on lister... someone killed the FE Lister with minions and I died instantly. This is my fourth death to FE.... perhaps my last as I may end up not making any new characters and simply use my DC killer only.

    I really appreciate your input (and everyones) and I may resurrect her if I get so inspired - it is a fun build, but at the moment I'm not sure I'll have the time. This was my equipment list:


    Hat - Orphan Call Set - reason: 35% crushing blow - with 1 ptopaz

    Gloves - Orphan Call - reason 20% ias and set bonuses

    Belt - Orphan Call - reason dual leach 5/5 and set bonuses

    Sheild - Orphan CAll - reason Super high blocking and set bonuses - with 1 pdiamond.

    And all that together adds 15 extra all resists with 80% MF plus some other bonuses.

    Boots - UPGRADED war travellers - reason - 1 step down from myrmidian - so dmg is high - and up to 50% additional MF (upgraded gore riders is the obvious choice for a non mf concerned character - because 10 CB and them being myrmidian)

    Armor - Tal Armor - reason **% MF and 40% to key resistances - pretty much essential for this build unless one goes without orphan call set.

    Ammy - (was using +3 MA skills on death - but planned to switch to a mule +1 MA with Teleport skill and some small mf / res on it (to use in combo with speed and avoiding lvl 3 of meph)

    Rings - this is where I was just getting to balancing out need for resists / plus skills / leeching. I was just about to put a dwarf star ring on her (though it wouldn't have helped because the FE bug kills all anyway)... between either ammy or nagles I know I could get another 25 to 40% mf from this and get the remaing aspects I need.

    Charms - Gheed 33% is mine - Annilisis (have a 19/16/5) for 16 extra resists - and then filler charms for boosting key resists.

    Weapon - gull dagger (100% mf) on switch before final kill (sheild is duplicated for switch), but fanged dagger (flesh ripper) for the bonuses including 25% crushing blow. The runeword strength is the poorman's solution for this (use a -30 weapon for it) - there are some arguments to be made that it is even better... but check them both out.

    Then... merc has 4 topaz armor, 3 topaz hat, thresher (for Decrypt).

    Items I have that I didn't use: 20% ias with +2 MA skills gloves - I felt the orphan call set mf / res bonuses were more valuable for my build. +2 MA skills rare Assass hat with resistances. nice, but the crushing blow is so important for a kicker. Shadow killers, firelizards, bartucs - i wanted crushing blow on this weapon too instead.


    What I learned in my build was how crucial crushing blow and maximizing speed is. And to check for FE lister before being polite.

    If someone uses this - post your notes! Thanks.
     

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