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help with Hell in players8 mode

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by ogee, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. ogee

    ogee IncGamers Member

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    help with Hell in players8 mode

    Hi all, been reading various bits of diablo threads as of late and I'm wondering if anyone can offer some advice. I'm typing this at work, so please excuse my vagueness for now.

    I've got a summonmancer I've been playing in players8 mode (single player). I'm now in ACT 4 and I'm finding my skeletons are getting massacred so it's hard to get anywhere. Actually, i think I've been relying on my might merc for dmg (I can sense the shudders now lol) and the skeles as meat shields.

    I'm lvl 84 (from memory) and my build is (including items)
    28 skeletons
    25 skeleton mastery
    22 clay golem
    3 in all curses (except poison resist)
    3 in corpse explosion

    the merc is lvl 84, has a ~90-200 dmg spear (from the enhanced dmg) and a ~950 def armour.

    I haven't used any 3rd party mods (hence why I haven't resorted to runes). So my question is, does anyone have any ideas on how I can further advance in Hell with 8player mode?

    just as a side rant, i hate possessed and stone skin+PI monsters. They're impossible!
     
  2. Dodgydave

    Dodgydave IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    Without top gear players eight hell is quite hard.

    I assume you're using amp damage to help out the skellis, could be worth considering using decrepify to slow down the monsters and reduce their defence, damage and speed as well as PR.

    Sounds like you merc could use a weapon upgrade too, since you'd normally want a weapon with 400 plus max damage.

    Also make sure you use corpse explosion once you get a critter dead. It's not going to be the killing machine it is on players one but will still help.
     
  3. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    1. Drop players settings. Few people take Hell on at /pl8, merely because it takes so long to kill some things.

    2. Your skeleton level looks awefully low. What items are you wearing.

    3. Corpse explosion is usually maxxed for the huge range and damage it can do, although it is less effective on /pl8.

    I'll check my fishymancer's skele level, so can give you some advice there.

    I suggest giving a readout of the character (use ATMA's readout), so we can see what items actually need upgrading, because I assume quite a few do. Also, merc items?
     
  4. Mursilis

    Mursilis IncGamers Member

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    You'll want to be using the utility curses to keep some of the monsters busy and away from your minions. This means Attract and Terror can be used to have the monsters attack each other or run away, respectively. Also, Dim Vision is nice to use on ranged monsters to keep them out of the picture while you work on the melee groups first.
     
  5. someoneNew

    someoneNew IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    I'm actually surprised you've already made it to Act IV in Hell with that build.

    Even with uber gear, getting through Hell on players8 is hard and a PITA.

    Most people, myself included, don't have the patience to wait so long to kill the measliest of enemies, or the patience to deal with the swiftness in which a Godly hammerdin can die if you don't pay attention for 3 seconds.

    Congrats on making it that far :thumbup:
     
  6. ogee

    ogee IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    Okay, I'll get a dump of my char when I get home. I should have also mentioned what my strategy has been so you have an idea on how nooby I am :)

    1. go to act I and kill for some easy initial corpses and when I've lost alot of skeletons.

    2. I always cast amp dmg (it's my bread and butter) except on
    i) bosses and tough uniques where they deal too much dmg and kill skeles in 1 or 2 hits. In this case decrepify.
    ii) my merc is in the red and I'm too cheap to use a full rejuv. I'll cast life tap, let him leech quickly and then recast amp dmg
    iii) I'll cast weaken on monsters if dmg to monster < monster life regen. When I can get enough dmg on it, i put amp dmg back on.

    3. recast golem when I need take the heat off my skeletons. I found this handy for distracting bosses away from my skeles. I'll also recast if I can split a mob in half allowing my skeletons to focus on half a mob while the other half is distracted by my golem.

    4. I don't use corpse explosion much (maybe I should?). in p8, it doesn't give the same dominoes effect as p1. It's a bit disheartening when you explode a corpse only to see a little of bit dmg and then find you run out of corpses for renewing skeletons.

    Most of the time I'm watching the wall of skeletons and monsters fighting.

    @ Drystan

    Yeah, I thought about dropping p8. But I've been trying for so long it's become an obsession lol. I managed to get a conc barb to hell on p8 last week, but it's having soo much trouble handling a single fallen lol. Definitely need some item upgrades there!

    @ Mursilis

    Unless it's in enclosed area, terror and attract can make things worse. I've been mobbed from all 4 corners from wraiths (those ghost things in ACT II) that have come from screens away because of attract. Terror can be a mixed blessing. It's when they run away and then decide to target you which can be quite annoying. I should use Dim vision more often. Why didn't I think of that!?!

    @ someoneNew

    because of amp dmg curse and the scaling of minions for p8, imho I think this build is really the only way to go. I'd be very interested to hear of any other builds which can take on p8 hell

    sorry for the long post. I've been at this for a while.
     
  7. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    I am not a specialist but with classic skellemancers, you want monster to come to you at large numbers. With FE, yoo just need to drop the first corpse and fire them out with FE - the more the merrier. It's not that effective at P8, but it still can do massive damage if the range is good. Personally I couldn't stand just watching the endless battle.

    A lot of builds can do P8 hell. Physical damage builds need uber weapons, casters need good equipment, but they can do it, some of them more easily than a skellemancer.
     
  8. ogee

    ogee IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    Here's my char. Could prolly do with an upgrade but I haven't done enough runs for gear to appear. I'm still using my same shield+wand since lvl 10 lol.

    btw, thanks for all the advice offered!

    Code:
     
    Character name  : summer
    Character type  : Necromancer
    Character level : 87
    Character exp   : 1259935770
    
    Strength        : 90
    Energy          : 25
    Dexterity       : 25
    Vitality        : 200
    Stat Points Rem : 180
    Skill Points Rem: 4
    
    Life            : 716 / 604
    Mana            : 236 / 196
    Stamina         : 369 / 349
    
    Gold (Inventory): 71312
    Gold (Stash)    : 1867820
    
    
    27: Peasant Crown
    War Hat
    Defense: 108
    Durability: 10 of 12
    Required Strength: 20
    Required Level: 28
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 68
    Fingerprint: 0xe1fbd46f
    +20 to Energy
    +20 to Vitality
    +100% Enhanced Defense
    Replenish Life +11
    15% Faster Run/Walk
    +1 to All Skill Levels
    
    28: Eagle Clasp
    Amulet
    Required Level: 27
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 44
    Fingerprint: 0x441edb84
    Lightning Resist +32%
    Poison Resist +23%
    3% Mana stolen per hit
    +1 to Necromancer Skill Levels
    
    29: The Spirit Shroud
    Ghost Armor
    Defense: 295
    Durability: 15 of 20
    Required Strength: 38
    Required Level: 28
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 75
    Fingerprint: 0x98b312a
    +150% Enhanced Defense
    Magic Damage Reduced by 8
    Replenish Life +10
    +1 to All Skill Levels
    Cannot Be Frozen
    
    30: Nagelring
    Ring
    Required Level: 7
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 12
    Fingerprint: 0x9a2964ee
    +61 to Attack Rating
    Magic Damage Reduced by 3
    Attacker Takes Damage of 3
    21% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    
    31: Russet Vampirefang Belt of Equilibrium
    Defense: 63
    Durability: 14 of 14
    Required Strength: 50
    Required Level: 51
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 69
    Fingerprint: 0x47c26f8e
    Fire Resist +14%
    17% Faster Hit Recovery
    
    32: Tangerine Chain Boots of Luck
    Defense: 9
    Durability: 15 of 16
    Required Strength: 30
    Required Level: 19
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 66
    Fingerprint: 0x81f666b6
    Lightning Resist +6%
    33% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    
    33: Chance Guards
    Chain Gloves
    Defense: 27
    Durability: 16 of 16
    Required Strength: 25
    Required Level: 15
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 50
    Fingerprint: 0xba780d9c
    +24% Enhanced Defense
    +25 to Attack Rating
    +15 Defense
    200% Extra Gold from Monsters
    30% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    +2 to Light Radius
    
    34: Summoner's Tomb Wand
    One-Hand Damage: 10 to 22
    Durability: 15 of 15
    Required Strength: 25
    Required Level: 25
    Staff Class - Fast Attack Speed
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 76
    Fingerprint: 0x9878f02b
    +1 to Necromancer Skill Levels
    150% Damage to Undead
    
    35: Gale Rock
    Overseer Skull
    Defense: 230
    Chance to Block:  28%
    Durability: 20 of 20
    (Necromancer Only)
    Required Strength: 91
    Required Level: 49
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 71
    Fingerprint: 0x3c0bc003
    +4 to Strength
    +61% Enhanced Defense
    All Resistances +10
    Adds 2-7 poison damage over 3 seconds
    Replenish Life +5
    Poison Length Reduced by 25%
    +2 to Summoning Skills (Necromancer Only)
    
    42: Bronze Ring of Fortune
    Required Level: 31
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 68
    Fingerprint: 0xf2fc22
    +20 to Attack Rating
    23% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    
    50: Mechanic's Yew Wand
    One-Hand Damage: 2 to 8
    Durability: 15 of 15
    Required Level: 7
    Staff Class - Slow Attack Speed
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 9
    Fingerprint: 0x3022a2a2
    +3 to Raise Skeleton (Necromancer Only)
    150% Damage to Undead
    Socketed (1: 0 used)
    
    51: Preserved Head
    Defense: 3
    Chance to Block:  23%
    Durability: 17 of 20
    (Necromancer Only)
    Required Strength: 12
    Required Level: 3
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 7
    Fingerprint: 0xeacccb74
    Adds 2-7 poison damage over 3 seconds
    +3 to Skeleton Mastery (Necromancer Only)
    +3 to Raise Skeleton (Necromancer Only)
    +1 to Amplify Damage (Necromancer Only)
    
    Mercenary Items : 
    
    1: Hailstone Crest
    Grim Helm
    Defense: 224
    Durability: 26 of 40
    Required Strength: 58
    Required Level: 25
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 62
    Fingerprint: 0xa2c879dc
    +78% Enhanced Defense
    +15 to Attack Rating
    +1 to Light Radius
    Poison Length Reduced by 25%
    +65 to Mana (Based on Character Level)
    
    2: Atma's Wail
    Embossed Plate
    Defense: 952
    Durability: 100 of 105
    Required Strength: 125
    Required Level: 51
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 71
    Fingerprint: 0x53e4d4c6
    +15 to Dexterity
    +156% Enhanced Defense
    +50 Maximum Durability
    Replenish Life +10
    Increase Maximum Mana 15%
    20% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
    30% Faster Hit Recovery
    +174 to Defense (Based on Character Level)
    
    3: Spire of Honor
    Lance
    Two-Hand Damage: 91 to 342
    Durability: 13 of 25
    Required Dexterity: **
    Required Strength: 110
    Required Level: 39
    Spear Class - Slow Attack Speed
    Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
    Item Level: 61
    Fingerprint: 0x58eb25d3
    +25% Enhanced Defense
    +165% Enhanced Damage
    +20 to Minimum Damage
    +40 to Maximum Damage
    Replenish Life +20
    +3 to Light Radius
    20% Faster Hit Recovery
    25% Bonus to Attack Rating
    +3 to Combat Skills (Paladin Only)
    130% Damage to Demons (Based on Character Level)
    
     
  9. Swiller

    Swiller IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    Act IV you say? Is it possible that Oblivion Knights (and thus, IM) are contributing to you're skeleton's ineffectiveness?

    But as others have said, most summonmancers don't run Hell at Players 8, especially with the sort of gear you're wearing.

    Teleport charges could be useful. That way you and your army could teleport back and hopefully draw out a single monster or two. A full army of skeletons should be able to handle that, although it will still take a lot of time and patience.
     
  10. ogee

    ogee IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    lol, sometimes i have trouble getting out of the front gate! but yes, iron maiden will destroy my army. I don't think I've made it out the the 1st map yet. :S

    EDIT: but yeah, from what everyone is saying, I need to upgrade my gear. I hate hunting for gear. It can be so disheartening.
     
  11. Smips

    Smips IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    You made it that far on /pl8 with that gear? Kudos man...I'd say shop in normal for a good wand (any good combination of +raise skelle and +skelle mastery), socket it, and throw the "White" runeword in it. That is if you have a Dol and Io to just throw around. White is a lot better for Bonemancers, but the possibility of +7 to skelle mastery is pretty nice. Either way, shop for a new wand, that'll help quite a bit.


     
  12. Are

    Are IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    You could try visiting Jamella. She should have the capability of providing wands with +2 necro skills or with +3 summoning skills, plus potentially good +specific skills.

    Go in and out the front gate a couple of times until she has a wand you like :)
     
  13. moo-cow

    moo-cow IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    the last character i did hell at more than P1 was my WF zon who switched between P5 and P3 depending on the number of PIs there were.
     
  14. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Gear is a part of it, but I think maintaining /players8 is a bigger factor. Monster hitpoints really start to get quite high in Act4, and increasing the players setting compounds that. On top of that, CorpseExplosion doesn't "scale", so it'll do proportionately less damage on higher settings than it does on low ones. In addition, monsters also have slightly more powerful attacks on higher settings.

    If you're not willing to lower the players settings (understandable since you made it this far), then as the others have mentioned, upgrading your equipment and utilizing your curses (and patience) is about the only option available to you. I wish you luck.

    PS. Attract can really draw some heat off of your skellies - but you should cast it on a monster in the center of a pack, not on the fringe. I assume you're using revives too? That might be worth a couple of skillpoints if you're not, since a couple of good revives can help tank for your skeletons a lot.



     
  15. ogee

    ogee IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    I think i never changed wands/shields because the RS skill was my no1 priority. The focus was always more dmg as skeletons can have a surprisingly large health pool.

    just a quick question, do revives scale as well? I haven't put in any points because I hadn't believed that they did.
     
  16. Smips

    Smips IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    Don't touch revive. All you get is a bunch of tanks that do next to no damage. Plus their AI is terrible so they usually get lost and disappear.

    edit: Oh, and still shop another wand. You can find white ones with +3 raise skelle and with +skelle mastery. It might take a little while to find it, but it'll be a nice addition, especially if you can afford that runeword.


     
  17. Mursilis

    Mursilis IncGamers Member

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    However if your skeletons are dying alot a few extra tanks to soak up damage would be nice. That is where revives come in. Also they are helpful as getting ones with Crushing Blow (Urders) make boss killing go so much faster.
     
  18. Hrus

    Hrus IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    Some revives are really good. Frenzytaurs for their damage, some ranged monsters (like souls, witches), Urdars for damage and CB, Wraiths for their ability to not get in the way of other summons and attack a monster even if it is completely surrounded by your skellies.
    And it's a one point wonder.
     
  19. ogee

    ogee IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    Hey, I know I might be stupidly crazy, but is it possible to have +3RS with +skills/+summons?

    I haven't found a wand yet but let's see how the revives go :D
     
  20. Are

    Are IncGamers Member

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    Re: help with Hell in players8 mode

    Yes. You can get a magical wand with +2 Necro skills or +3 Summoning skills, that also has +3 to RS and +3 to SM.

    It would be pretty difficult to find one outside a vendor though, so shopping at the wand-selling vendors would be your best bet :)



     

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