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Help With A PvM Barb

Discussion in 'Classic' started by Locke07, Apr 19, 2005.

  1. Locke07

    Locke07 IncGamers Member

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    Help With A PvM Barb

    Hey guys I am wanting to make a PvM barb using a maul/Lance, but now I have heard that they are not that good at PvM? So what do you guys think I should make and how should his stats/gear go?
     
  2. fredsta54

    fredsta54 IncGamers Member

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    They are the best pvm characters(imo) outside cs. High life, high dmg, go anywhere attitude. They make excellent mfers for places other than bosses, as they cannot teleport.

    A basic Mf barb setup is
    3 p topaz helm or nice tarnhelm
    sigons gloves, belt, and boots (50 mf, life steal, resists)
    angelic rings, ammy, and armour (100 mf, high fire resist, life, MASSIVE ar, dtm)
    and a big damaging 2 handed wepon, socket w/ pskull 4 mana leach and addiitional life leach.

    Popular weapons are
    Rare Lances with 300+ damage
    Rare martels with 260+ damage
    Rare ancient axes w/ 230+ damage

    try and get weapons with triple the base durabillity (can spawn on rares)

    I have built this barb and have gotten into the low 80's by doing flayer// travincal runs in hell//the occasional meoh/andy.

    He used this setup w/ a ptarn/// a 233 anceint axe w/ 150 durabilty and socketed w/ a pskull.

    basic skill breakdown:
    20 ww
    20 wep mastery
    20 bo
    20 shout
    1+ nat resist
    1 increased speed
    1 find item
    1 beserk 4 PI's
    presquites etc.

    enought stats for weapons and rest to vita or.....
    if your weapon is very high damaging...
    you can try a semi titan build, which i have heard to be very effective
    200 vita
    rest to strngth
    high ll.

    I hope this helps you

    Fred
     
  3. TheCerberus

    TheCerberus IncGamers Member

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    Crushing Blow is your friend. Goblin Toes, Rattlecage are good sources for it. In the CS, however, you won't do that well. You can provide BO, but fighting as a WWer is worthless. Berserk can be used, but it's so boring...

    Flayer jungle runs and River of Flame are good ways to level without a party. Join questing games in act 1/2 and do Rivers/Flayers. It's a lot of XP until a certain point for Flayer, and Rivers can actually take you pretty far. Not as good as CS, but reasonable if nobody's on.
     
  4. BigBearCat

    BigBearCat IncGamers Member

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    lance is not a good idea because of its poor dur. And this problem gets
    worse when you run jungle in act3: the smith in town is too far away
    from ur tp.
     
  5. JoeDamned

    JoeDamned Banned

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    Lance is just a terrible idea for PVM, do not try it at all, take cow level for example, your lance will break after about 5 heards of cows.

    I would say a 200+ martel or a 170+ executioner sword.

    Since not everyone is gg rich in Diablo 2 :mad:
     
  6. Palm

    Palm IncGamers Member

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    I make all my barbs with lots of vit so I'd never use something like Lance or Exec that requires much dex and str. Battle hammer (100str req)/shield combo works pretty well. As does a -30 req Martel barb (119str req) and a good Steeldriver (uniq great maul ~200 max dmg, 55str req) barb. As you can see I am biased towards mace mastery.
     
  7. JoeDamned

    JoeDamned Banned

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    I actually want to know, why NOT choose the mace mastery?

    I tried a naga with the whole axe mastery and all the stats right, he was decent but could only hold his own in a duel, I gave him a 188 Ancient Axe for pvm but it didn't help too much.

    As far as I see it;

    Mace = Most Dmg
    Axe = Fastest hits
    Swords = ....they look cool?
    Spears = Most range
    Poleaxes = ......they don't look cool?

    And that is how I see it, mace all the way.
     
  8. TheCerberus

    TheCerberus IncGamers Member

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    I'd probably go hammers for PvM too, but only because Bonesnap is an awesome, severely underrated weapon.

    On a side note, you're confused with something. Axes do not hit any faster than any weapon with WW...
     
  9. JoeDamned

    JoeDamned Banned

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    So why do people think that Nagas are all that and a bucket of oranges?
     
  10. TheCerberus

    TheCerberus IncGamers Member

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    I don't know why for PvM. They have low durability, low damage, and only get a few more hits on monsters in range. But when you're WWing a pack of monsters, I'd rather take as high damage and Crushing Blow as I can get, which is what Bonesnap/Hammer+swordback gives me.

    Now for PvP, that's a different story... nagas rule there, in my opinion.
     
  11. Fearlessone

    Fearlessone IncGamers Member

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    Don't forget: The Art of the Play

    I've used crushing blow items before and discarded them in favor of 2-handed high damage exec (232+ias+leech) or a martel (250+pois dmg). Goblins dont have nice 30% run or dual res, but they are nice earlier on when u dont mind dying. Rattlecage is just horrible. Its flee mod removes all curses on the monsters including battlecry and sends them fleeing about, its not what a warcry barb or CE necro or hammerdin or any good ww barb wants to see, or even zons.

    PLAYING IN THE CS WITH WW IS NOT! WORTHLESS... This is a myth perpetuated by 95-99% of barbs who don't bother to either ask around, watch, or use their braintrust to 'figure-it-out'. It's one of the most satisfying things in the game, to run into a brick wall and then go back to the drawing board (often meaning the battle.net site skill pages) and see where u went wrong and can make up:

    If U intend for the bulk of ur ww barb's time to play in CS in Nm or Hell, DO NOT sink 20 points into shout (as suggested above). Put maybe half a dozen into this skill (and nothing in iron skin). Sink at least 10-13 points into the Warcry skill and ww away.....using warcry first of course. Shout is useful in river against powerful Urdar and Grot champs and boss mobs and CS monsters with might/fan auras. But thats it, it is relatively useless in CS if u are using lots of warcry. If u can get a +2 barb ammy (maybe a magical one with a real high resist), this will help bunches.

    There is an Art to doing this, involving perhaps taunt and/or howl and playing smart. Yes, berserk is sooo boorrring. Worse if u get decrep while doing it. Warcry is the only safe way to ww a mage, and if there are 3+ mages scattered nearby, u must warcry and berserk them one-by-one.
     
  12. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

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    actually, goblin toe is the best choice for boots, even in diablo 2 expansion(for pvm barbs) and its because of the fact that they supply you with crushing blow and they DONT have increased speed. your ww is faster if you have increased speed and you will hit the monsters for a shorter amount of time. because of the same reason you do NOT want increased speed (the skill) for a pvm barb.
     
  13. TheCerberus

    TheCerberus IncGamers Member

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    a) Battle Cry is only good for one monster, like a boss or unique. You don't need it for anything else.
    b) War Cry, yes it's good, but it's mana intensive and frankly does not solve the problem of IM. WWing is useless in CS, there's no going around it, because in groups everyone else will be speeding past you while you slowly take out monsters one by one, and if you're solo PvMing, the time it takes to do the CS is far outweighed by the time it takes to do a River, so the exp gain balances out over time.

    I used War Cry extensively on a berserk barb, and it helped a lot. But with WW, I could not keep it up. There were too many knights throwing around IM to expect war cry's duration to last while TKOing them all.

    Now, WW can be used in CS, without war cry and a lot less mana. Taunt groups so that only one knight is able to cast curses, and then rush him. I have noticed that if you run straight at one, they tend to cast decrep. Decrep = slowed = more hits.

    EDIT: And I disagree about crushing. A barb with goblintoes and bonesnap is a very capable, quick barb.
     
  14. JoeDamned

    JoeDamned Banned

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    Barbs just aren't built to CS, they are very handy mind you with their shouts and battle orders, etc.

    However, there is no barbarian that can withstand IRON MAIDEN, it rips him apart.

    I have died in NORMAL cs with a lvl 80 barb before, mainly because if you are in the process of ww'ing and iron maiden gets cast on you, as soon as you are finished spinning you will hit the floor dead.

    Even WITHOUT using whirlwind you still do at least 50% damage to yourself in 1 hit, regardless if you have 1000 or 3000 hitpoints.

    Barbs + Chaos Sanctuary = Bad combonation.
     
  15. Wyvern

    Wyvern IncGamers Member

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    Well Im probably one of the few people on these forums that never made the switch to LOD.

    The reason people think nagas are "all that and a bucket of oranges" is because it has compareable damage to an exec sword weilded 1handed, and like the exec sword has a range of 3. Battle hammers get the highest possible 1 hand dmg but only have a range of 1.
     
  16. Fearlessone

    Fearlessone IncGamers Member

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    My Proof is in the Pudding...

    First off, battlecry/warcry is good for mobs, not just bosses, a good lvl of bcry can reduce damage to U by about 30%. If u dont have much shout and need help, then the bcry/warcry combo will cut champ/boss damage and stop most nearby minions cold. 13 pts into warcry + skills on items can give u 4 seconds of relative safety. Bosses and champs even have about a 20% chance of being stunned, but faster to just do 1-2 warcrys and ww away.

    Warcry: yes, its mana intensive, but one lousy cast every 4 seconds when u got bo too? come on...
    Tell that to my lvl 91 WW barb, last ladder, or my lvl 90 (moving steadily to 91) current ladder barb. The proof is in the pudding. I dont stand around and just provide nice BO amenities like JoeDamned says. U guys on USWest? or make a char on that realm and look at the barb top 10 ladder. I got 2 chars there: WW and pure Warcry. I got other chars on other realms or these barbs would be lvl 92+ by now and I started the warcry barb only 2 months ago. The highest on that realm is lv 93 barb, he prob stands around in supersora cs runs. My warcry barb, btw, almost never dies. With an amping necro he is easily more useful in CS than any paladin, mobs fall within a few seconds before the necro can even cast CE.

    You are right that the other players will run right by you, its true in most cs runs. Thats when u say "screw u people, I will make my own run and take my bo and warcry with me". There arent any river only runs on my realm. Players have tried to start them, but since most chars are not ww/zeal and dread IM, the temptation of all the glittering LOOT in the CS is overwhelming. U arent likely to get 7 other ppl to join u for endless river(only)runs. But, make a river-to-cs walk run, and they eagerly come out of the woodwork to help, especially lvl 60-70 weaker chars who cant survive sora's. High lvl hammerdins wont like these runs, but then who could care less about that char subclass. Sora (Japanese for highest) is a tele to cs star run, where seals are popped and sealbosses and diablo only are killed. They are often known as 'chaotic' runs.

    If u play on some realm where 'safewalks', 'riverwalks' and such dont exist, then that's ur fault for not starting them. I've been behind making these on my realm, they fill up, and when sora types barge in and try to pervert them into supersora's, I hostile and take them out (enough of the time to discourage this form of behavior). Some other barbs have copied my char builds and have reached lvl 90 too. Sure, they could be lvl 92-93 and stand around in sora's, and so what does that prove, lol?

    Yes, u can use taunt (and howl too) in cs and ww. If u want to have a very high lvl barb tho, dont expect to get very far by being decreped and then ww. U will soon die. Why? cuz of lag, he may walk a few steps away and cast IM right after the decrep cast, right while u are starting up ur ww = splat. Only warcry can assure u of victory! When u see that stun over his head, u cannot get IM'd, only if u did ur homework and looked just offscreen for other nearby mages. And in 2 ww's thats a dead Oblivion mage, now onto the next mob.

    Yes, goblin toes are superior overall in getting monsters down in classic. But if u need good resists on some boots and dont like to walk around like u got lead in ur feet, nice rares may be for u.

    SmartBarbarians + WW + CS = good combination

    Now Go, In Peace, and WW away in God's former House
     
  17. Locke07

    Locke07 IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for all the post guys, but my barb isn't really going to do cs I plan on doing Hell Trav do you guys have any sugestions on mf/resisit options. I have a nice 200+ martel with 4 mana leach but anything else is pretty much open.
     
  18. Fearlessone

    Fearlessone IncGamers Member

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    Hell Trav needs some decent defense and resists, they hit hard and so many of them. But if this is for mf, then u dont care if u die, do u? Just take out the rehealer mages first between the waypt and the pools.

    For mf, pump FindItem skill. Use triple topaz helm, 2 high mf nagels, goldwrap belt, a 30% fastrun boots with res and mf, chance guard gloves, tancreds ammy + armor for the partial set mf bonus.

    U might want to use combo's of howl or taunt to get rid of pesky minions here. Mf presents resist probs. In that case, make sure u have at least 9 points in NatRes skill. There are those poison serpents in front and maybe a cold mod on the bosses. In those cases, if u are serious about this, gulping on thawing pots and antidotes may keep u alive. That leaves fire/lightning to worry about, try to get those res on ur boots. That could bring u up to 40% res.
     
  19. TheCerberus

    TheCerberus IncGamers Member

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    My friend got to lvl 93 or 94 in East Hardcore Classic, and he didn't really like doing CS runs. He'd rather do River runs quickly than do CS runs slowly.
     
  20. Fearlessone

    Fearlessone IncGamers Member

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    Ur and he are right about that.

    SmartBarbs + WW + CS + HC = splat

    it only takes once to prove it was a bad idea. My warcry barb has died about 8 times to get nearly to lvl 91. Almost always its a lightning boss, and 1-2 other ppl will die too at same time. Three warcry casts per second without any leech is a problem around lightning, esp with a couple sec of lag. It's like Bartuc/Lister damage. MSLEB's are cake in this patch, but there seems to be an expanded range of regular lightning damage now. I preferred multishot lightning bosses, cuz u had some warning in advance and early in the attack. Now: much much harder.

    All monster attacks have a 5% chance of being doubled. I've noticed that when diablo unleashes a particularly bad firebath, that the damage over the 3 seconds is constantly high. So this would be at the high end of his damage + doubledamage, and is figured out in advance and not with 25 frames per second. So this can happen too with regular lightning bosses with each set of bolts that flies off. Except that there is now a strange sinister high lvl of lightning damg.
     

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