Help upgrading Vipermagi

dinesh01 said:
Ahhh -- I have the KO - no Lem I'd give my PUL for a Lem

Vipermagi really doesnt merit an upgrade as meleechars do not sure it so the def isnt an issue. vipermagi is used for its +1skill, Resistance and 30%FCR, upgradeing it would take its level reg a lot higher...not worth it plus youd need more str

Elvish
 
where do these people come from? And why do they choose to post in the paladin forum? Do they feel that this is relevant?

Or do they simply think: "Oh I have a question...any forum will do, it doesn't matter as long as I get what I need as soon as possible for as little effort as possible."


YOU MAKE ME [email protected]!!!! DIE!!!!1
 
PoopyPants said:
where do these people come from? And why do they choose to post in the paladin forum? Do they feel that this is relevant?

Or do they simply think: "Oh I have a question...any forum will do, it doesn't matter as long as I get what I need as soon as possible for as little effort as possible."


YOU MAKE ME [email protected]!!!! DIE!!!!1

If you look around he was refering to a hammerdin (he has a hammerdin post)
so it has something to do with pallys...though its still a waste of bandwith

Elvish
 

GauD

Diabloii.Net Member
True, vipermagi isn't the best option to burn a ko+lem for, but for a hammerdin it's not all that bad. I upgraded my 33 vipermagi and it went from 200-ish defence to 800-ish defence.
 

Ryshenron

Diabloii.Net Member
yes..it is a really good armor for hammerdins b/c hammerdins are often in the center of a lot of monsters casting hammers(especially in baal runs) and the more def..the easier they will live
 

Shanksie1337

Diabloii.Net Member
i have been pondering what armour to put on my hammerdin, atm his gear will be:

shako
wiz spike
HoZ
arach mesh
seraphs 2/1 - might trade for a low res mara's
ravenfrost
silkweaves
magefists
combat skiller
anni

leaving 1 ring and armour free.

Having looked at armours i think that a Que Hegans would be better for a Hdin because:
more def (with no upgrade needed)
mana/kill
+15 energy
lower str rqd on QH (upgraded viper is 97 iirc)
10 lower fcr not important unless aiming for 125fcr (will settle for 75 imo)
res's on vipermagi not really needed

So would u:
1. upgrade an Um'ed 34 vipermagi (meaning my sorc's could no longer wear it) also meaning 1 less socket available.
2. upgrade a 29 (or a traded > 29)
3. wear a 29 (or a traded > 29)
4. use QH as main leveling armour
5. a different armour - plz suggest :D

having read a few Hdin guides, they all seem to advocate vipermagi, but surely as the res's aren't needed it's purely for the fcr. Which can be more than compensated for elsewhere.
 

Ryshenron

Diabloii.Net Member
lvl req on upgraded vipermagi is 83 or 84(cant remember which one), but def not 97, so if u can afford the str.. it is better than quehegans
 

Shanksie1337

Diabloii.Net Member
Ryshenron168703 said:
lvl req on upgraded vipermagi is 83 or 84(cant remember which one), but def not 97, so if u can afford the str.. it is better than quehegans
Why?

as far as i can see:

Vipermagi
Defense:279
Durability:24
Required Strength:43
Required Level:29
120% Enhanced Defense
Magic Damage Reduce By (9-13)
All Resistances +(20-35)
30% Faster Cast Rate
+1 To All Skill Levels

Que-Hegans
Defense: (628-681)
Durability:60
Required Strength:55
Required Level:51
(140-160)% Enhanced Defense
Magic Damage Reduce By (6-10)
+15 to Energy
20% Faster Hit Recovery
20% Faster Cast Rate
+1 To All Skill Levels

Comparing the 2 like for like (without upgrade):
-both +1 to skills
-both ~10 MDR, with viper leading slightly on mdr, but not that vital a mod at all.
-FCR on viper is 10 better, but unless you are aiming to mf with 125 fcr then settling for 75 is more reasonable. So the extra 10 fcr is not needed to gain an extra bp. When mf'ing i'd assume we'd opt to get to the 75 fcr bp and get the extra mf % as opposed to more fcr (another 50, and less mf). 75 is so easy to attain with mf gear (ie wizspike and magefists - with an ali baba/gull on switch gives you 70 of the 75 needed - so a nice fcr ring/ammu (with mf on would be uber but not vital) and of all the gear slots u have only really 'wasted' the gloves slot (and maybe 1 jewellery), as u'd cast hammers with wizzie, then switch to mf weapon for the kills). Also i doubt ppl would mf in either QH or Vipermagi as u could only get 24mf from a ptopaz.
The reason i put mf in here, is that i assume i will spend as much, if not more time mf'ing with my hdin than i will actually leveling him up, so i'd prefer the switch from leveling mode to mf mode to be as seamless as possible.
-20-35 Res all on the viper, again obviously better than no res on the QH, but for this build i really see res's as the last of your worries, with 50 on a HoZ, 75 on the wizzie and 30 from anya, this put you on 55 res all on Hell. (again mf springs to mind, if u rely on your viper for res then when u mf u are going to suffer either lower mf - keeping the viper - , or a drop in res's - swapping out the viper for mf armour-.
-279 def vs average of ~650 on QH, obviously QH wins here. Upgrading would use up a Ko+Lem (iirc), and put your viper back above the QH. Assuming the above poster is correct and the str rqd goes to ~84 then this should be well in our range as 89 needed for the HoZ. That said for the same runes, u could upgrade your QH - and assuming the str rqd didn't from 55 to > 109 (+20 from the HoZ) then QH would take the lead again. Even if str rqd went higher, + str is easy to find. For eg: a common as muck anni :p , a +str sc or +str as a mod on other charms, and +2 from the shako can't hurt.

Which leaves
-20 fhr
-15 energy
as useful extra's from the QH.

So i can't see why ppl dont use the viper from 29-51(or 61 if wizzie is needed for extra res), then put on a QH until they are big and tough enough to mf.

anyone out there recommend a third choice?
 
Odd, did you just say that Que Hegan's higher def beats out Viper's faster fcr, resist, lower str req?

The fhr is nice, yes, and the energy is minor, but... that's about it...

I don't see why you bothered to bring up mf as both are in the same situation. More or less, the only way that que hegan's would be better at all (sorta) is if you upgraded them and wasted charm space or stats on the +str...

I'd rather use the viper. Especially since anya quest is still bugged and not really accountable as an "always there 30%." Now you're at 25% in hell. Not very good :/ Have to waste sockets or charms on resist now.

But, you go ahead and use que hegans :)
 

dinesh01

Diabloii.Net Member
The reason I posted on this forum -- was as a hammerdin on the ladderl -pallys would know the best option. I'm getting killed as a poor pally in hell -- mostly from lack of resistance. I don't have a HoZ, Shako, or Wizardspike -- my resistance before the Vipermagi was around 20. I have not upgraded the viper yet. Since I can't afford any MF equipment I thought I would try to survive hell for Baal. Besides I can always give the upgraded viper to my sorc.

Sorry if I should not have posted here, but your responses have helped me alot.

Thanks to everyone for your comments.
 

Shanksie1337

Diabloii.Net Member
fonis toastes said:
Odd, did you just say that Que Hegan's higher def beats out Viper's faster fcr, resist, lower str req?

The fhr is nice, yes, and the energy is minor, but... that's about it...

I don't see why you bothered to bring up mf as both are in the same situation. More or less, the only way that que hegan's would be better at all (sorta) is if you upgraded them and wasted charm space or stats on the +str...

I'd rather use the viper. Especially since anya quest is still bugged and not really accountable as an "always there 30%." Now you're at 25% in hell. Not very good :/ Have to waste sockets or charms on resist now.

But, you go ahead and use que hegans :)
tbh i wouldn't upgrade either, i just mentioned upgrading the QH as ppl seem to want extra defense, so it's a possibility if def is lacking later in Hell. Yes viper is a nice starting armour, giving you the things you need until better gear becomes available, but the things ppl rate about it are overrated, as i explained.
fcr - nice but either overkill or not enough depending on 75/125
res's - hdin's get res's everywhere - unless they don't use wizzie/hoz i guess, but if fcr/res is so vital, wizzie kinda helps there.
str rqd - as i wouldn't upgrade either there is no need for any str charms (side note, is there anyway to work out what str rqd an upgraded QH would have, bar actually upgrading it?)

and yes i do plan on using a normal QH :D

as for the anya quests 'bug' plz elaborate

re: 25% in hell, with 10 min from the anni, and bits and bob's of res's as second mod's on main or mf charms, jewellery etc you can hit +60% easy
 
It'd be an archon, look up the str req for an archon...

The bug is that they don't apply after you die in a game. Very important in pvp and questing.
 
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