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Help! My first neccy!

Discussion in 'Necromancer' started by JanusJones, Apr 8, 2005.

  1. JanusJones

    JanusJones IncGamers Member

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    Help! My first neccy!

    Hey guys! I've been reading the forum's a lot, because I've recently come into possession of some decent neccy items and decided to make my first 'mancer. However, I need some advice on my build!

    I was thinking of starting off a neccy with the following equip:

    +2/+1 47% Death's web with a 3/5 Die P-Facet
    Shako
    Maras
    Trangs Belt, Gloves, and Wing
    Marrowwalks
    SoJ and BK

    The reason I haven't listed an armor is that I haven't decided. I have a really nice Dusk Shroud Nigma, but I'm also tempted to trade for the runes for Bramble. First question, what armor should I wear? Nigma has tele, but Bramble has such a nice big fat damage bonus! Nigma has skill plusses for summons, but Bramble decent resists and a wicked thorns to make your pets even more deadly! Nigma has strength to help you wear your 'Walks, but Bramble has charges of Spirit of Thorns to make your army even nastier!

    I had a couple of questions about skills, too. I have Marrowwalks, so I was thinking of going the Poison/Bone route: maxing the P-skills, maxing Bone Spirit, and one pt each in Skelly Mastery, Raise Skelly, Skelly Mage, Clay Golem, Golem Mastery, and Summon Resist. Of course, one would be put into each of the curses (except for the Confuse tree) to get me Lower Resist. The idea would be to let +skills equip carry my little army up to the point where it would serve it's purpose - keeping me safe while I fire off poison explosions and spirits.

    However, even with Homunculous and the Arm on prebuff, my skellies look like they would be on the spongy side. In addition, with only maxed Bone Spirit and the 33 pts of synergy offered by the Marrowwalks, it looks as though my Spirit won't even reach 2k (it'll fall just short).

    Argh!

    So, the question is:

    Should I go ahead and try this setup, which would offer a weak army, a nuclear-meltdown of a nova, and a mediocre Bone Spirit, or should I go full summon/poison? I can't really decide - somehow too many summons seems annoying to me, and I want to do my killing myself. Moreover, the idea of having another spell as backup (Bone Spirit) seems a fun one.

    I ultimately would like to be able to solo in hell and also kick around in the occasional pub duel. It seems summons are the way to go if you're PvMing, and Bone Spirit is the way to go for duels. Is it possible to make a character who does all three?

    I've read the guides and the Poison thread. I just want the advice of some experienced neccys out there. Should I wear Bramble or Nigma? Should I forget about BS and go with RS? Should I ditch the skellies altogether and just use the clearly more durable (for the pt. investment) Clay Golem? What do people think?

    Thanks a bunch guys - :worship:
     
  2. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls IncGamers Member

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    Go with nigma...get a fire golem...after maxxing the 3 poison skills I'd go with maxxing bone wall and either bone spear or bone spirit(I went with spirit).

    Reason for fire golem is that you can take them down to 1 life left with PN...and fire can finish off the last point...or you can use spirit to do so as well.

    Hope that helps,

    HoS
     
  3. muserule

    muserule IncGamers Member

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    Sounds like you would also stand to benefit from some points in lower resist which will increase damage from poison and fire as well as the other elements. If you decided to go summon/poison you could go something like:

    Raise Mage 20 (optional)
    Skelly Mastery 20 (optional)
    Lower Resist 10 or whatever you want.
    Fire Golom 1-20 again up to personal preference.
    Poison Nova 20
    Rest in poison synergies
    Holy freeze merc.

    You would suck at PvP though. If you want to win duels you gotta have a lot of points in bone spells like:

    20 Bone Spirit
    20 Bone Spear
    20 Bone Wall
    A point in decrepify.
    Use the rest to either stregthen your attack (20 teeth) and get another skill like a golem(clay or iron)/or build an army(20 skeleton + 20 skeleton mastery)

    Theres no easy build for PvM and PvP so just do whatever you want
     
  4. rickcarson

    rickcarson IncGamers Member

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    Correct. Your 1pt +skills skellies will suck.

    If you just want something to keep the hordes back while you lay down the arty, then Revives will work *much* better than skellies. Some of the tougher monsters have over ten times (perhaps as much as a hundred times) the hit points of a high level skellie.

    But! The Necromancer is teh mastorz of defense!

    There are a lot more options available to you if you just want to keep them off your back:

    Terror (you'll have it anyway)
    Bonewall (even with just one point it'll have about 3k life in Hell)
    Dim Vision
    Confusion

    (these would all be alternatives to putting a single point into skellies and mages)

    Of course other than the bonewall, most of them won't work against bosses, but the golem and merc are easily able to distract the boss.

    Well, for PvM you'll only be using it against very poison immunes, so 2k is fine (for 1p games). Granted its not stellar, but you also have other weapons in your arsenal, eg Corpse Explosion (which you picked up as a prereq, and which does Fire/Physical).

    For PvP maybe you use the Bone Spirit to make them think you're a boner and lure them into Pnova range... muahahaha!

    Not as such. Welcome to the nerfest formerly known as 1.10, where multidimensional characters all got the shaft.

    If you are willing to accept less than greatness, then sure. I haven't tried it myself, but it sounds like Death's Web + 3 piece trangs makes PvM a cakewalk, so there may not be much challenge there.

    And if you've already got the best gear... why bother doing Baal runs?
     
  5. Necrochild313

    Necrochild313 IncGamers Member

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    Sounds like with the gear listing hitting the point where LR plateaus won't be a problem, so points into LR will be wasted. I personally suggest placing those points into bone wall for a stronger bone armor.

    Enigma all the way :D

    As far as the bone spirit thing goes with pvp, from experience, I'd say (after maxing your poison skills and getting a single point into lower resistance) putting a single point into bone spirit should come first, then maxing bone wall, then getting teeth to lvl 23 (for 24 teeth), and then you should place the rest of your points into spirit. I have a 2k+ spirit this way on my necro, and whereas it's notsomuch used to KILL as it is to manipulate the enemy (noone is going to stand still in a "stretegic" position and take 2k magic damage over and over again...aka defensive trappers), I have killed my fair share with the spirit alone, and it's rather funny when I do. Marrowalks should be used :eek:
     
  6. HarbingersOfSkulls

    HarbingersOfSkulls IncGamers Member

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    Couldn't have said it better myself NC.

    HoS
     
  7. JanusJones

    JanusJones IncGamers Member

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    Hmmmm . . . thanks guys!

    Question: why Nigma? Won't the Bramble extra damage be sexy?

    Also, with even minor summons, wouldn't the Thorns help out?

    Next question - why Teeth? For sheer area coverage in killing off 1 Life PvPers?

    Finally - why Bone Wall before Bone Spirit? The damage bonus to Spirit is pretty minor, and if folks are advocating going without skellies then won't I have issues with P-Immunes? Even though I'll be able to break them, without Bramble will the Nova really kill them off?

    Sorry for all the questions, it's just there's no real way to know these things without having in-game experience with them - which is why I'm relying on you guys: the experts! As we all know, Skill Planners and strat guides etc. can never really help you figure out how it all really works. Heck, the character screen (commonly called the LCS - Lying Character Screen) is wrong half the #$&^% time!

    Thanks again - keep the advice coming if you would - I'm just soaking it up :uhhuh:
     
  8. Necrochild313

    Necrochild313 IncGamers Member

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    Yes, but you'll kill fine without it, trust me on this, the addition of teleport will help you clear larger groups of enemies quicker than huffin' it with bramble. As long as you've got a death's web your pretty much good to go. Also, low STR enigma allow you to have much more life.

    And the reasons why Enigma is better than Bramble in pvp...is quite obvious once you join a pub.

    It will, but not by much with this particular build. Your poison will be clearing enemies quite easily without the addtion of damage return. Though it may be useful against non-removable poison immunes, I don't think it'd beat firewall/lower resistance in the terms of damage.

    True Dat

    Because it effects both your Bone Armor and your Spirit/Teeth Damage, which to an extent your teeth damage matters somewhat when you factor in replenish life, MDR, and other crap like that :mad:. It's annoying when one set of teeth wont' finish them off! Although that's more of a minor concern than a major, as that occuring is rare. The big factor IMO is that bone armor is pretty damn important in pvm and when dueling those with physical damage.

    -res in gear is not effected by the 1/5 penalty (after the resistance is broken by Lower Resistance), so you should have no problem killing them off if you have a death's web (3 piece trang helps too).

    LCS is especially wrong with poison damage Click here to read more info as to how

    :lol:
     
  9. JanusJones

    JanusJones IncGamers Member

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    Grats Necrochild. I must say, you're one of my neccy heroes on this site - I've read and re-read your -rez post! :worship:

    Okay - Nigma it is! This simplifies a bunch of stuff as I all ready am in possession of said Nigma - no need to scrounge a Sur now. I'm trying to figure a couple of things now: first and foremost, skill point break-down. By level 87, I should have 86 points base and another 12 from all the quests for a grand total of 96 points. This leaves me with the following:

    7 points, 1 in each Curse (except the left-hand tree, of course)
    20 in P Dagger
    20 in P Explosion
    20 in P Nova
    1 in Teeth
    1 in Corpse Explosion
    1 in Bone Spear
    1 in Bone Armor
    1 in Bone Wall
    20 in Bone Spirit

    This gives me a grand total of 92 points. I was then thinking of sinking 3 points into Clay Golem, Golem Mastery, and Summon Resist, and another 3 into Raise Skelly, Skelly Mastery, and SKelly Mages (when I hit lv. 89 . . . assuming I have the patience to level that far - most of my characters poop out around 86). However, it seems you guys are reccomending doing without a meat (or, in this case, bone) shield . . .

    Really? :scratch:

    I will PvP on occasion, but for PvMing won't the summons keep the heat off me? Or will Nigma, Teleport, and Bone Armor really provide enough defenses - even in Hell? I guess I'm still just reeling at the idea that an Arty Necro . . . and I mean a JUST Arty Necro . . . can now survive in Hell! How cool would that be?

    Anyway, without summons I'd sink the extra 4 points into Bone Wall to up my Armor and my Spirit. The teeth won't be up there, but I figure I'd rather have a heavy-hitting Spirit for PvMing.

    More opinions? I'm learning so much - many thanks, folks! :jig:
     
  10. Necrochild313

    Necrochild313 IncGamers Member

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    Thanks :D, and DAMN. That post is abhorribly long...I admire your patience ;)
     
  11. Mad Mantis

    Mad Mantis D2/3 Necromancer & Witch Doctor Moderator

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    With a Golem and Enigma you should be able to quickly teleport in, drop a Nova and clear the room before you are in any danger. If things chase you the Clay will protect you as an instant blockade. You can then Teleport even further out of danger.
     
  12. JanusJones

    JanusJones IncGamers Member

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    Hee hee . . . yeah, I do tend to go on - apologies.

    MadMantis - thanks for the clarification! Now almost all the big hitters on the neccy forum have graced me with advice - much appreciated guys! :wave:

    If anyone's on US West, message *Valmiki to say hello to my necro! Granted, he's only a wee little necro at the moment, but that should change soon enough. :thumbsup:
     

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