Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use. ifr

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by zarfen, Apr 11, 2008.

  1. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    346
    Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Background: I'm currently living in london, and last time I was home in sweden I brough all my atma stashes but I forgot all characters, I only stripped them of the most useful ones, like hoto (and btw thanks to that I don't have an angelics amu atm xD).
    Anyway, I want to run LK so I have started a sorceress, I originally planned her to be a blizzy, but since I have 2 already (although they are in sweden I'll see them again someday :hanky:), I though'd I'd make something new, not to mention my .07 sorc is a blizzy so I'm kidna tired of them :tongue:

    So I decided for good 'ol FOrb, it's a great skill for going trough the game and everything, but that leaves me with alot of left over skill pts, and I'd happy to make a hybrid sorc for a change (list reads 2 blizzy, 1 fire and 1 light) and since I'm going to do LK primarely, I though I'd settle for a fun/unusual 2nd skill, it would be nice if it wasn't completely useless though, since I would like to be able to run an occational pindle/boss when bored with lk.

    My main options so far, please add more if you can think of any good:
    All of these listed will use FOrb as 1 of their skills, as stated above :rolleyes:

    Meteor/Fball: Long time since I actually made one of these, but not very new or original, and I have already named my character NoMeteorPlxNoob, after the meteor nerfs exp b.net rumour, so it would be kinda un-fitting

    Lightning/CL: A good mix with FO, and runs countness well. Also a very common sorc, and I'm currently playing a lightning trapper trough nm, so I'd stay away from using lightning if possible, sinceit's basically the same.

    Nova: Now here's an interesting one, I always though nova was a cool spell, but the damage is not great and it has awkward manacost, ofc I could help that with insight, +mana items, possibly coupled with a pair of .07 haxx mpk rings. I've never really used nova, so I'd realyl like some input fro mexperienced players on this one.

    Firewall: I kinda like firewall, but I dont like how hard it is to actually aim. This was my initial though, but I'm not sure I'd like it

    Hydra: Unusual, funky and absolutely crap are my initial thoughs of hydra, never used it much, but since I still remember the days when hydra didn't have a cooldown I'm sure I'd be dissapointed with this. This variant would also cause me to have to level to 24 before I could start pumping a skill that I'd actually use.

    Enchant: Naah, I'm too lazy to melee at all with this one.

    *insert your personal option here* if someone can come up with another hybrid I'd be happy to consider it.

    Note: I'll do this as twinked as I can, so that's not a too big issue. I'm not riding with items like infinity, coh or sorc skillers (I hate how I always trade away my skillers for new ones when I'm interested in a new build)

    Thanks for reading and (hopefully) sharing your thoughs :wave:
     
  2. Starlight_Wizard

    Starlight_Wizard IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    If you want to make an item-finding oriented Sorceress (since you don't want to run LK exclusively, but it's not like you need any skills besides Teleport for that matter), then your options are only two, really:

    A) Fireball, Meteor and Fire Mastery.

    B) Lightning, Chain Lightning and Lightning Mastery.

    If you don't want a FB/Meteorber (which I have, and she rocks, I don't know anything about bnet rumors nor have I regretted maxing FB/Meteor/FM), then you only have one option really :tongue:

    If you want to go for wackyness, then Nova/LM/Static Field is also very nice and successful. You'll need Insight and lots Lots LOTS of mana, though. My clvl50 Nova/FO sorc has ~580 mana and still I need Insight and two full belt slots for blue pots...

    Keep in mind, too, that Nova sorcs are somewhat gear oriented, and some of them even have a few dozens of points in Energy. This means that you won't be able to load up on MF gear as much as a Meteorber or a CL/FO sorc.
     
  3. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    346
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Interesting, how much does a field of nova drain from your pool? (ie what manacost does your maxed nova ahve, and what level is it?)

    The thing is, I'm not sure I feel like doing alot of mf boss running atm, but if I chagne my mind before I've had the chance to get my characters from sweden, I will regret making a stupid build :tongue:

    Maybe a Fo (unsynergysed, 1-10 pts in mastery)/nova/es sorc would be good, since you'd then could sink alot of pts in energy without regretting it for survability later. I also have a +2 ES staff I could use (I had a sweet memory on a sorc, but that is also back home :sad2:) to mae memory in, to save some pts.

    max telekenesis, LM, nova, forb, 10+ prereq's, 1pt wonders and dump in CM. Hmmmm.

    edit: alternatively I might save wackyness for later, make a meteorb (would be kidna nostalgic maybe) and complete her by tomorrow...
     
  4. DundeeKahn

    DundeeKahn IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Zarfen, I have this very build of ES/Nova/FO.

    At levels 39 for Nova and 35 IIRC for LM, it deal 1700-2300 damage and costs 52 mana.

    I have >1800 mana pool, and my belt is currently with a row of reds, one of purples and two of blues, because I really need them oftem. Nova is a mana sink. Its also fun as hell, specially if your ever intend to rush someone/ HF rush. Novaing full packs in late nightmare is oh so amusing. I still have to try Insight, as I build this character years ago, before using RWM.

    As I am twinked to the teeth, with a whole bunch of skillers and a Powered Amulet of PDR (life everlasting?) my 1pt teleport costs 3 or 4 mana, which means I could go to the moon and back teleporting, as I regenerate faster than I spend it.

    ES is bad for Pindle due to charginf attacks. ES is also bad against manaburns because they may instakill you by 1-hit removing the shield. On the other hand, LK, countess and basically anything envolving teleporting fast and safe cant be beaten.

    As a last and mostly irrelevant point, Nova is good in LK runs because it knockback all the jumping dogs, or whatever their name there is, in one attack.

    Hope I helped.

    Also Memory for ES sorcs is so sexy! On the other hand, Spirit+ Uber Magic orb could equal the skill bonus from a +2 staff with a lot of extra mods.

    EDIT: I really think lightining based sorcs are good for this kind of running because they tend to have cheap teleport costs as a result of using their regular gear.

    EDIT2: So that you can compare my build with Starlight's, I will display my skill attribution:

    At clvl **:

    ES:9 (40) (10 skillers, +9 Memory, Powered Circlet and amulet, x2 Soj, Mesh and +3 Ormus)
    TK:20
    Nova:20
    LM:16 <- next would go here.
    FO:20
    CM: 4
    Prerequisites/wonders:10

    And actually, while LKrunning I do it with level 33 ES, so I dont have to prebuff with 2 skillers, Ormus and Circlet. Its pretty safe at **% absorption.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2008
  5. Starlight_Wizard

    Starlight_Wizard IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    My slvl27 Nova costs 41 Mana and is currently dealing ~1k max damage. LM isn't maxed yet (it's ~16 before +skills iirc). I need 2-4 Novas to kill a pack, so that's 80-160 mana per ''fight''. It's a crapload of mana. That's why most people choose to go for Energy Shield in Nova builds. When you don't get hit, you have a lot of mana to spend. When you do get hit, you use your mana pool as your life pool. Energy Shield basically makes each point you spend in Energy count as a point in Energy plus a point in Vitality, which is pretty cool. I'd definitely go for either Energy Shield instead of Telekinesis. Maybe ~5-8 in Static Field to get good range, too. Static Field is very good as a means to make Nova cost less mana, because the first half of enemies' hp can be taken with Static Field, which costs little to no mana, and then your Nova only has to do half the work. FO is for LIs mostly, and bosses.

    In any FO build, tho, don't max its one synergy (ice bolt, which adds only 20% cold damage when maxed), and aim for slvl17 Cold Mastery after +skills have been applied. A nice number to shoot for is 5 hard points up to clvl75 or so, and then only add more when you have your endgame gear on. Chances are you can get +12 to cold skills, making any points in CM besides the 5th a waste.

    So, what I would do:
    Max FO
    5 in CM
    Max Nova
    Max LM
    ~5-10 in Static Field
    ~10-15 in Energy Shield
    (treat SF and ES as a single skill and distribute 20 skill points among them as you wish)
    Further points should be spent in SF and ES if you ever get to the late 80s-early 90s.

    Or, like you suggested, make a Meteorb :smiley:



     
  6. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2003
    Messages:
    3,909
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    347
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Nova rules. As usual, I'll refer you to the apropriate guardian thread, rather than type my thoughts out again:

    http://forums.diabloii.net/showpost.php?p=4413710&postcount=1

    As for energy shield... I wouldn't even look at it in hardcore, let alone softcore... Just not needed and thus wasted.

    cheers,
    NF
     
  7. DundeeKahn

    DundeeKahn IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Oh, man... You are missing the fun of it!



     
  8. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    346
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Thanks for all the input, I've decided to go for nova, mostly because I never done it, I really like the way of the spell, and since you guys seemed to have enjoyed your nova sorcs!

    @dundeekahn: why do you put pts in es rather than tk? If I understand it right, unless you get tk to at least 16 (where it absorbs for 1 mana per 1 damage taken) it's a waste (since you'd get more tanky-ness from adding more +life instead of mana oriented gear) and it's easier to buff ES with gear, since obviously you cannot buff a synergy. No pts in ES would also save 4 points (es + synergies)

    @Star: You also said you'd defenitely go es rather than tk, why is that? :tongue:
    I understand that you need a decent level of ES if you want to use iy as a lifepool, but maybe a balance between es/tk... I should have plenty pts over anyway. FO/nova/lm is just 60 pts + another 10 for preq's and tele, static, warmth, I usually count with about 100 skill pts when I plan a build, even thogh I don't reach level 89 very often, so let's say level 85 is a very reachable level without really trying to hard to level, that's 96 pts, - 70 for described pts over, that leaves 26 points to spare, let's say I get hard pts in ES (I just reminded myself that I'd probably use cta on switch, and I never prebuff from stash for pvm) that's -4 pts, so I'd have 22 points to distribute between ES and telekenesis, if I'd put 15 in tk (for level 16) I'd have 7 points to raise ES to level 8, and I could easily cram in 12 or more +skills by then, not including any skillers sinceI dont have any, giving me a level 20 ES. Now the problem is that level 20 es only gives 75% absorb, which is too low if I want to completely live off mana. So either I have to sink the majority of the 22 left overs into ES, until I reac ha satisfactory level (btw, anyone know where I can find ES %developement after slvl 20?) and then sink any remaining pts in TK, making me loose more mana per dmg taken, alot more actually, but it would keep my red bulp safer.
    The main issue I have is that I'm not sure it's worth it, even before slvl 20 ES starts to get awful returns, and I imagine it gets worse after, while TK increases my ES' effectiveness with 6.something % with each point.
    Urgh, I'm utterly confused
    :dizzy:

    Anyway I'll have to consider the ES route, and atm I think I'll go for it, even if it's not really effective like NF pointed out, I think it would be fun to have a max mana build (although I'd never negate life, probably 70-ish base vita for ES breakers).
     
  9. NagisaFurukawa

    NagisaFurukawa IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    4,409
    Likes Received:
    56
    Trophy Points:
    262
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    If you think about it, ES and Nova really don't mix. If you do get it though, invest in TK and use something like 'Memory' or Warpspear to help prebuff the ES. Then, just make sure your mana to life ratio is equal to or less than than your ES%.
     
  10. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    346
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    I see your point (both are mana eaters). What is a warpspear? :hide:
    I'll save that for last anyways, so I have some more time to think about it, but if I decide against it, what should I do after level 60? Get TS? :tongue: Max a cold armor?
    I guess I could buff CM a bit more, and maybe put 7 points in inferno, to piss off all the perfectionists? (realises I would piss myself off the most if I did that)
    I was kinda psyched to use ES, but without maxxed TK and high-end ES % I don't think I couls use it the way I wanted to anyway, so I might skip it and make a pure ES sorc some other time.

    :smiley:
    Thanks for all posts, they're all very helpful.
     
  11. DundeeKahn

    DundeeKahn IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Zarfen, after level 20, ES gets 1% absorb per level until it caps at 95% in level 40. Running at **% (slvl 33) fells pretty safe most of the time for me.

    As I wrote up there, I have BOTH 40 ES in prebuff and 20 hard points in TK.
    You start at 2:1, than get at 1:1 at slvl 16 and go down to 2:3 in slvl 20. That means at 1800 mana I have effective 2700 life. Unfortunately, I have no BO to push it into insane levels.

    From level 16 to level 20, you get 50% effective improvement for 4 skill points . It works similar to 75% resists to 85% resists... you cut alot of damage for "just" 10% res... Pretty good deal.

    The major drawback in ES sorcs (other than manaburn bug) is that you will spend over 30 skill points just to get it going: 20 TK and 40-prebuff ES + 3 prerequisites. This reduces you attack options, as most sorc skills take a lot of sinergies to achieve comfortable levels. You will have 60-70 points to make your attacks out of. I guess that's why FO is such a staple. Its a very effective attack fo just 30 skill points.

    I am not sure what you mean by "pure ES sorc". Its not like you will be able to TK them to death... :rolleyes:

    EDIT: I do understand ES sorcs take some "commitment" to the build and should be done solely for the joy of it. Therefore, Its completely up to you if you want to do it or not. I don't want to push or anything. I am just trying to provide information so that you dont get surprised by equipment or skill allocation problems.



     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2008
  12. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    346
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    The problem is that I do not see how I can possible reach level 16 tk, and level 40 prebuffed ES.
    +all skills/sorcskills/lightskills(I originally planned to use 3 piece tal's for mfing purposes, but that'll take off to muc + skills and fcr I think)
    +2 shako
    +2 maras
    +3 hoto
    +2 spirit
    +1 viper
    +1 arach
    +1 bc

    And that's about it, that's just 12 to all skills. I do unfortuneately not have any lightskillers left, or any soj/bk's (should maybe stop by nm andy and get a soj or 2 :rolleyes:)
    I don't really like the idea of prebuffing for pvm, how long does a level 40 ES last?
    I could strech as far as prebuffing ES with a memory, and then put on cta, but I will not bother with +3light circlet/amu etc, I just won't do it! :hide:
    I also didn't get your comparission of 4 extra pts in tk and "just" 10 resists, do you think that's good or bad? Personally I think 75 to 85 % resist all is a nice upgrade.

    The only gear switch I can see would work would be another armor, since resists arent so important with ES, and get like akraines for anotehr +skill, but i'll loose 30 fcr that way as well.
    Oh well, I'll start by pumping nova lm and fo, and see if I've come up with a solution then.

    And btw, with a prue es sorc I meant one that devotes herself to gain a sweet level of ES as prio #1, and gets damage output as a second.
     
  13. DundeeKahn

    DundeeKahn IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Over 2400 seconds, according to myself here.

    Also, this thread means my brain farted regarding CM level.
    And that necro project I talk about there is soon to be Pat. Its just soooo boring to play...

    Regarding TK, you start at 2:1 and spend 16 points to get 2:2, 4 extra points to get 2:3 seems VERY worthy to me. That's what I meant. Sorry about my lack of clearliness.

    In your gear, resists can be completely neglected. What you are looking for is PDR and MDR. The important variable in a Vipermagi is MDR. Its a fine choice. Maras, on the other hand, is beaten to death by an Archangel's or Powered amulet of Life everlasting.



     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2008
  14. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2005
    Messages:
    8,919
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    With a tanking merc, it isn't hard to aim...
    1) just teleport away from the monsters to make a little space
    2) stand still while your merc and the monster charge each other
    3) and then drop the firewall where the monster stands when they "collide".

    The combined damage of the firewall and merc will spank the monster quickly. It may not be the most efficient skill, but it's quite powerful, and stylish. That's good enough for my vote.



     
  15. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 2005
    Messages:
    4,069
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    346
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Ah, nice, thanks dundee :smiley:

    *goes off to level her*
     
  16. DundeeKahn

    DundeeKahn IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    469
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    143
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Welcome.
    If you have any questions or gear need, I might have leftover pieces.
    Just drop me a PM.

    I so miss 1.09 Fire Wall.:undecided:



     
  17. Starlight_Wizard

    Starlight_Wizard IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    For a non-ES Nova build, after the usual 65 points (FO, Nova, LM, 5 in CM) you can either max/nearly max Static Field or one of the armors. SF is much better, the armor is just plain cool.

    Or, like I'm planning to do, max Thunderstorm to make use of the already-maxed mastery :hide:

    EDIT - The beauty of that plan is that, with a Prayer merc holding Insight, you can Teleport around enemies, getting mana + life back from double Prayer + Meditation, and keep hurting the monsters with Thunderstorm. Throw a FO/Nova while you can and you technically don't need much life/FHR/blocking.
     
  18. scottee

    scottee IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,629
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    I have a "pure ES" sorc, and I love it. This girl has used Frostburns since she could, and has put most of her stat points into energy. She is all lightning-based, though, so she does havea tough time with immunes.

    20 TK
    17 ES (willl be enough for lvl 40 if I ever find the right staf for memory)
    20 Lit
    20 CL
    ~16 LM (maxing this next)

    She does the 117 FCR bp, and if I ever find or can trade for a Griff's and some facets, she'll switch over to going for 200 FCR and running cows (atm, with no -litres gear, p8 cows don't die fast enough).

    I was fortunate enough to find a SoJ while running countess, and so she now has over 2k mana without a CtA. Since her merc carries an insight (got lucky, rolled 17 for the aura), she literaly cannot lose mana to anything but mana burners. Seriously, I sat and fired my most expensive spell as fast as I could, while being whaled on, and my mana never went more3.than 100 below max. OTOH, I do need more PDR/MDR on my equip, as she will lose life (albeit slowly).

    Just my experiences, if it helps at all.
     
  19. Tohanry

    Tohanry IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2005
    Messages:
    240
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    57
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    Wow...this is an interesting idea.... Since I have an Insight already...and I love FO....And T-Storm is pretty cool...

    My question is....other than the normal + skills gear... would a FO/Nova/TStorm build need any specific Breakpoints?



     
  20. Starlight_Wizard

    Starlight_Wizard IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Help me decide on what 2nd skill my new sorc will use.

    105% is awesome, and you don't need anything else :thumbsup:

    Max Thunderstorm + Max Lightning Mastery with +12 to Lightning Skills from gear: 1706 - 2223 lightning damage, once every 1.2 seconds :wink3:



     

Share This Page