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Help! hybrid or pure strafe for pit?

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by FattyMcGee, Mar 5, 2004.

  1. FattyMcGee

    FattyMcGee IncGamers Member

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    Help! hybrid or pure strafe for pit?

    I'm making a zon for pitrunning, and I can't decide between going pure strafe or strafe/lf!!! I also have some questions about ias and stat point placement. Please help out. Thx!!!

    Here's the equipment I have for her:
    bow: wf (shael)
    Helm: stealskull (ptopaz) or shako (ptopaz)
    armor: skulder's ire (ptopaz)
    rings: ravenfrosts, or ravenfrost + nagel, or ravenfrost + manald if I really need the ml
    gloves: LoH
    belt: upgraded goldwrap
    ammy: highlords??? still working on this one (use 10sec eye of etlich right now)
    boots: war travs

    If she goes hybrid:
    weapon switch: 195%/9% titans, stormshield

    If she doesn't go hybrid:
    weapon switch: hellrack for PI or single targets (I heard it's really good if at right strafe attack speed)



    So, I know ss is a big str investment @ 156 (would have to -req jewel it) but then again, hellrack is an even bigger one @ 163 (would hel it for one of it's sockets). So either way I'm going to have to have some strength.

    My main questions are these: which build would be faster overall in the pit? Would I be spreading my points to thin if I tried to have a decent valk and other passives + strafe + lightning fury? Would I even need hellrack as a boss killer with the power of a wf? Also, I was thinking around 100 for vit... is that enough life, combined with the shako I'm going to wear? is it too much life?


    For the wf, my main weapon, the ias is 40% (bow) + 10% (belt) + 20% (gloves) + 20% (highlords once I get it) = 90% ias... that's enough to hit 9/3 right? (the tables are down ATM) I think I'd be sacrificing to much mf gear to get 9/2. And this way, I can use shako instead of stealskull for added mf/life/mana/+skills. But I'm kindof a noob when it comes to javazons... if I went hybrid, would i need extra ias? is this enough?




    Sorry to ask so many questions. thx in advance for the replies!

    --fatty
     
  2. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    Imho, a pure Strafeazon is the best character for the Pit. You won't meet any PIs in the Pit itself, though you may run into the occasional PI on the way there. Hellrack would be an option for those, or WWS (amp and lvl 20 MA, will save you some str), if you don't want to use Atma's Scarab. I think it would be overkill to invest 20+ skill points to take out the occasional PI while running to the Pit from the waypoint. Those points are better spent beefing up your Valk, Pierce, Penetrate and D/A/E.

    As for the bosskilling, in my experience, you won't often Strafe against a single target in the Pit. And the Windforce should easily handle the occasinal tougher boss in an extra Strafe or two. I don't think you'll find it worth your while to switch weapons to finish Pit bosses - and for the record, 50% ias from gear + the inherent 20% on the Hellrack will take it to 14/4 which is the same next-delay category as the 9/3 Windforce (if one missile hits, the next will miss).

    100 in vit is a good balance (soft core).

    Your ias setup would be plenty for a javazon (I suppose you're thinking LF) - though you'll be just 2% away from a breakpoint! It won't matter much though, as a few throws will kill anything.
     
  3. FattyMcGee

    FattyMcGee IncGamers Member

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    Ok, so...

    --pure strafe will kill faster
    --ditch the hellrack
    --enough ias for javs, but doesn't matter cause won't use javs anyway.


    Great, thank you very much sasja! Now I'm glad I held off on putting those extra skill points into lf & prerequisites.


    --fatty
     
  4. FattyMcGee

    FattyMcGee IncGamers Member

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    too late to edit my post...


    sasja, I wasn't thinking of LF for killing "the occasional PI". I agree, there are better ways to deal with them. But wouldn't LF kill the groups of monsters in the Pit quicker than a 9/3 strafe w/ windforce? I was thinking to LF them, then switch to wf to pick off the LI guys that were left over.

    I figured out I'll have 101 skill points by level 90. This will be divided as such:

    -20 in strafe
    -4 in prereq for strafe
    -13 in valk (will be 17 w/ +skills)
    -3 in prereqs for valk, not including D/A/E
    -5 in Crit strike (9 w/ +skills)
    -20 in penetrate
    -3 in pierce (7 w/ +skills)
    -2 in Dodge (6 w/ +skills)
    -3 in Avoid (7 w/ +skills)
    -1 in Evade (5 w/ +skills)

    that's a total of 74 points. I have 26 whole skill points left over to use!!! My D/A/E is already 40/50/37 (and I hate evade, I just put a point in it to get valk).
    if I got up to 50 D it'd be 6 more skill points... not worth it for a 10% increase when I shouldn't even be getting hit with melee to begin with.
    Avoid is best IMO, and 50% is decent enough for pvm.
    as I said I don't really like evade, but I have 37% chance nontheless.

    So basically, I could go either 2 ways. I could try to max out a boss-killer like guided or even anti-PI skill like magic arrow. Or I could put 23 of those 26 points into maxing LF and it's prereqs. Then I could pop the last 3 into Valk or maybe GA to lower cost.


    You really think pure strafe is better for the pit? I have my doubts, those javazons can kill non-LI packs in a hurry. If pure strafe is the way to go... where should I put those extra 26 points??

    thx again for the help

    --fatty
     
  5. Freyas

    Freyas IncGamers Member

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    Using LF to clear the majority of the pits is a very viable option. The only lightning immune monsters there are the rogue archers, which you can use strafe against. The advantage of a strafeazon in the pit is their ability to kill everything with only one attack.

    The problem with using hellrack for single targets is that the IAS on the weapon puts it past the 18/5 breakpoint, which is where you would want to be for single targets. You can get around this somewhat by using knockback to prolong the flight time of some of your arrows that would otherwise be ignored due to next-delay.

    As for maxing a boss-killing skill like Guided, with a level 20 strafe, using guided to kill bosses is pretty much a waste of skill points. Strafe is not quite as effective as Guided for boss killing, but the slight increase in killing speed versus bosses is definately not worth 20 skillpoints- you could speed up your boss killing more effectively by putting more points into critical strike.
     
  6. FattyMcGee

    FattyMcGee IncGamers Member

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    thx for the replies :)

    It seems I have 1 vote for hybrid, and 1 for pure strafe if I read the posts correctly.

    Yes, once sasja pointed out that with my oias setup, hellrack would actually be too FAST for single-boss killers. Thank you again for that information! :thumbsup:

    Anyone have another vote for either side?

    --fatty
     
  7. Dork

    Dork IncGamers Member

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    Hybrid

    I will vote for Hybrid. As a strafe zon that build purely for pit run, 4 pre-req and 20 strafe is all you need in the bow tree. So that leave you a lot of points for other skills. I recommend spent 23 of it in LF and it pre-req. I found it cleared lvl2 much faster then pure strafe, and safer too. Now I do not die to fantatism/might enchant archer pack in lvl2 as the high block and DR safe my skin many time. Especially when my Valk and merc decided to take a break and stay at my back :grrr:

    If you put enough str to equip WF, then you should have enough str for a SS with TT, as TT give enough str bonus to use TT. Just be careful if you die (which you seldom will if you play it right) and need to pick up your body.

    As for vit, try if you can survive with 75 or 80 first, if you can't then add on to it. Just take a full rej if you get hit. I found I could survive even when hit by cold enchant boss dead nova with 81 vit after items. So I dump all the rest in dex :uhhuh:

    However, I have a different take on IAS for pit strafer. If you do not have ED/IAS jewel, I think you are better to stay at 10/3. Then you can socket your WF with just an ED jewel, and use Atma's. The different in 10/3 and 9/3 is so small that the ED jewel and Amp will be better option.
     
  8. sasja

    sasja IncGamers Member

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    LF is a very powerful skill, but doesn't go well with the gear and passives needed for Strafe. Strafe benefits the most from Penetrate, Critical Strike, Pierce, low leech, ias, and among the D/A/E Avoid is the most important as it will save you from stray arrows while Strafe-locked. LF needs big leech, +skills, Pierce and among D/A/E, Evade is more important for effective herding if you're going to do that.

    The only common ground between the two is Pierce. What that means is that you'll end up either spreading your passives points too thin and have an ineffective gear selection, or you'll tune your build and equipment towards one attack making the other much less effective.

    If you want to go hybrid, my recommendation would be to do the latter - make up your mind about which one is going to be your primary attack, and have the other as an occasional backup. If you're choosing Strafe a your backup attack, pick a bow with +AR or -enemy defense like upgraded Goldstrike or Eagle to make up for the lack of Penetrate.

    Another option would be to go FA/LF which I'm using in my newest build. Those skills agree much more about passives and gear.

    I must say that I think Strafe alone is well up to the task, and the extra points are put to great use in the passive tree - your Valk is going to kick some serious butt with maxed Penetrate, high Critical Strike and a healthy dose of D/A/E. Note that I'm not using a wf (upgraded Buriza - I never die on Pitruns, even though I'm in full mf). In the end, do what you think would be the most fun - that's after all why we do it :)
     
  9. himeji

    himeji IncGamers Member

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    I think both type of chars are good for pit running and fun to play. My first hcl char was a lf/poison javazon. In practice, I skipped poison skills and used bow for li immunes (kuko), with no points in bow/xbow skills. My fa/strafezon (killed in pit2 by cursed archer pack) used a non-upgr shaeled lycanders but she killed much faster than my hammerdin. I used maxed Fa only for the more dangerous monsters (archers), otherwise strafe did the job. Cold skills (max fa first, then cold arrow) might be the place to put the remainder points. You might go for 9/2 with your wf. You give up mf%, but you kill more monsters in the same time frame, thus more drops. But unfortunately, the pit layout is such that to avoid being killed (if you play hc), you need to scout with decoy or probe with strafe, decreasing the killing speed.
     
  10. FattyMcGee

    FattyMcGee IncGamers Member

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    thanks for all the replies guys! I can see both sides of the story more clearly now.

    In the end, I decided to go with a hybrid build... mostly because i haven't played a javazon since 1.08, and i think it'd be fun.

    I will have +4 to skills, so lvl 24 should do the trick for LF. Also, I'll have 50% avoid, lvl 17 valk, 66% pierce, etc with my +skills.... but I already said all this in my last post.

    Anyway, I'll just see how it works, and if I don't liek it I'll rebuild her for pure strafe! It'll be fun to experiment :)

    --fatty
     

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