[Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

[Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Hello, it's been a while since I've played D2, so take it easy on me. I only returned to the game around 3 weeks ago, so things are coming back slowly.

My current Trang-Oul is a pure Skelliemancer. It makes me unhappy because:
1. +Psn/-Psn goes to waste.
2. Fire Wall/Fire Ball goes to waste. I barely use them; I rather go CE whoosh!

So I wanted to make use of full Trang-Oul's to make a Poison Dagger/Fire Wall hybrid (read: no summons other than probably a friendly Golem to tag along).

Questions:
1. Can I use Poison Dagger in vampire form?
2. How much IAS do I need with a Fleshripper Fanged Knife to hit 10 fpa? 11 fpa? 12 fpa?
3. Does Fire Mastery help out Fire Golem? (I have a feeling the answer is no, as +% does not contribute to summons, but just in case).
4. Would +Necro Skills affect Fire Ball/Fire Wall/FM? Would +All Skills affect Fire Ball/Fire Wall/FM?

Notes:
1. I want to make use of full Trang's. No comments about using partial Trang's please.
2. Nothing about Poison/Summon hybrids please.

 

[prion]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

poison dagger is useable in vampire form. There's some IAS, FHR, all you want tables for vampire form somewhere, ima see if i can find them.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

The tables are in the Mouldy Tome Sticky. The problem is, I have no idea how to read the IAS table (how do I consider WSM?).

Sweet. At least I know I can make this build. So far, I have this planned:

+ 60 Poison Tree
+ 1 Dim Vision
+ x Lower Resist (-60)
+ 1 into Gumby, GM, Summon Resist
+ Prerequisites

Remainder into Bone Armor and synergies.

Fleshripper
Full Trang-Oul's
Gore Rider

Charms: Full of FRW and PDSC.

Still deciding what to do with jewelry and sockets though. I'm unsure if I want 2x Soj/Mara's Kaleidoscope to boost FM/FB/FW, or if I want more of a melee-oriented set-up.

Any input?

 

[Zodiacz]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

4. Would +Necro Skills affect Fire Ball/Fire Wall/FM? Would +All Skills affect Fire Ball/Fire Wall/FM?

I'd like to add out of curiosity: Would Magefists up them as they do Sparky and CE?

 

[Ax2Grind]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Base weapon speed counts as EIAS, and I believe on-weapon IAS enhances that directly, so it counts as EIAS, as well. All other IAS from any other source, equipment or skill, doesn't and that's the difference you need to make up. The EIAS number of the weapon allows you to find out how much more IAS you need to make the next/last breakpoint.

Edit: as long as it is an actual fire skill, and not a summon, then it will raise the ability of it. It won't add to hitpowers, charges, or summons' fire damage, since the latter is a summon skill, not a fire skill.

Edit: Fleshripper has a base -20 without on-weapon IAS, so in order to reach the FPA you're looking for, use the EIAS next to that FPA in the list, subtract 20 and the result is how much EIAS you need. Use the chart to figure out how much IAS to get to make up for it. So, for the fastest attack speed, you'd need +86%IAS off-weapon, but I'm not taking into account socketing the weapon with a Shael or otherwise. I need more information for that.

So then I read the details of the original post, and you want the actual possibilities lined up for the lowest FPA (which is 11). I'll try and get this right:

EIAS	frames
-20	25
-18	24
-14	23
-11	22
-7	21
-2	20
3	19
8	18
14	17
20	16
28	15
36	14
46	13
57	12
70	11

+----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+
|EIAS| IAS| |EIAS| IAS| |EIAS| IAS| |EIAS| IAS| |EIAS| IAS|
+----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+
|   1|   2| |  21|  26| |  41|  63| |  61| 125| |  81| 250|
|   2|   3| |  22|  27| |  42|  65| |  62| 129| |  82| 259|
|   3|   4| |  23|  29| |  43|  68| |  63| 133| |  83| 270|
|   4|   5| |  24|  30| |  44|  70| |  64| 138| |  84| 280|
|   5|   6| |  25|  32| |  45|  72| |  65| 142| |  85| 292|
|   6|   7| |  26|  34| |  46|  75| |  66| 147| |  86| 304|
|   7|   8| |  27|  35| |  47|  78| |  67| 152| |  87| 317|
|   8|   9| |  28|  37| |  48|  80| |  68| 157| |  **| 330|
|   9|  10| |  29|  39| |  49|  83| |  69| 163| |  89| 345|
|  10|  11| |  30|  40| |  50|  86| |  70| 168| |  90| 360|
|  11|  13| |  31|  42| |  51|  89| |  71| 174| |  91| 377|
|  12|  14| |  32|  44| |  52|  92| |  72| 180| |  92| 395|
|  13|  15| |  33|  46| |  53|  95| |  73| 187| |  93| 414|
|  14|  16| |  34|  48| |  54|  99| |  74| 194| |  94| 434|
|  15|  18| |  35|  50| |  55| 102| |  75| 200| |  95| 456|
|  16|  19| |  36|  52| |  56| 105| |  76| 208| |  96| 480|
|  17|  20| |  37|  54| |  57| 109| |  77| 215| |  97| 507|
|  18|  22| |  38|  56| |  58| 113| |  78| 223| |  98| 535|
|  19|  23| |  39|  58| |  59| 117| |  79| 232| |  99| 566|
|  20|  24| |  40|  60| |  60| 120| |  80| 240| | 100| 600|
+----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+ +----+----+]
Table originally made by GaiaCaT

Weapon speed (base and on-weapon IAS) counts as pure EIAS, whereas the charts for each class/form are designed to translate off-weapon IAS in a E:non-E manner. I think that's the easiest way to explain it. In order to reach 70EIAS with Fleshripper (-20) and full Trang-Oul's Avatar, when already ruling out an amulet with IAS, there's only one way since Gore Rider and rings contain no IAS to my knowledge (I may just be forgetting something).

The weapon needs a Shael to bring it to -40, meaning only the equivalent of 30EIAS is needed, and you can only reach the equivalent 40IAS needed by three IAS jewels - one in each the helm, armor, and shield. This does not include a Fanaticism aura, which I think is the only way external IAS could help you, from a mercenary or other party member. Someone correct me if I'm wrong... seriously.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Haha, thanks for the help. Seriously, they need to attach a better faq to that table, it hardly makes sense as it stands right now.

Example:
1. You want to reach 11 fpa, that's 70 EIAS.
2. Weapon = Cutlass (-30 WSM), 40 EIAS needed
3. Look up 40 EIAS in above table, that's 60 IAS needed for 11 fpa.

After reading that 4 or 5 times through, I still was like huh wtf. :confused2:

So you're sure weapon IAS counts towards EIAS? Otherwise, I'll still be kinda far from 11 fpa.

Anyways, one question left:

4. Would +Necro Skills affect Fire Ball/Fire Wall/FM? Would +All Skills affect Fire Ball/Fire Wall/FM?

Edit: Got bored and checked for myself. Only +All Skills improve FB/FW/FM.

 

[Ax2Grind]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

+* to Fire Skills help, too. Rising Sun, Magefist, Hexfire, etc. That hardly helps, seeing as most slots are already used and those not have only one kind of +skill or none at all.

Yes, weapon speed is EIAS, which is why only EIAS matters with Whirlwind - no off-weapon IAS will be counted in attack speed. This means the IAS on the weapon changes the base from -20 to -40, leaving the 30EIAS to calculate. Translated, that mean 40IAS (off-weapon), and without an amulet there's only the Fervor socketing that'll do the job. I wouldn't do that with perfect gear, but then if you think about it, you'd probably want Facets instead of Fervors, but you can't go halfway on either, or even put a Fervor in the knife, since that means needing 50IAS (requires 10IAS to make up for the 5EIAS) and that's not possible.

If you choose to change your set-up, of add a Faith'd Rogue, that'll change everything, so let me know.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Thanks again.

I'm taking a Cat's Eye, Fervoring my Fleshripper, and adding two more Fervors to my gear. That leaves one open slot for a Poison Facet I guess.

How comparable is Blackbog's Sharp to Fleshripper? I lose all the OW/DS/CB, but I get built in 30 IAS, increased slow and poison damage and I'll get to socket one extra Facet. Should I just stick to the Fleshripper anyways?

 

[Ax2Grind]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Fervoring the Fleshripper means you have 35EIAS, requiring another 35EIAS or equivalent 50IAS. Cat's Eye and two fervors can do the job, leaving the shield open for a Facet and making it usable for another build.

Blackbog's Sharp has 50EIAS total, leaving only a need for 20EIAS or 24IAS. If you Fervor it, you need 5EIAS or 6IAS elswhere. If you Shael it, you can Facet the rest of your gear and wear whatever amulet/boots/rings you want.

 

[stephan]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

IAS on the weapon is definitely not EIAS. WW and wereform attacks are special cases regarding IAS on weapon, but for all other attacks there is no difference between IAS on-weapon or off-weapon.

To convert EIAS to normal IAS you can use:

IAS = 120*EIAS/(120-EIAS)

A -20 WSM dagger requires 120*50/(120-50) = 86 IAS for 11 fpa, meaning with a Shaeled Blackbog's Sharp you need 36 IAS more.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Ugh. That means it's impossible to hit 11 fpa with my current set-up with a Fleshripper. Wow... 1% off. What a total gyp. :unimpressed:

---

Well... two options:

1. 12 fpa Fleshripper
2. 11 fpa Blackbog's Sharp

Just need one more bit of input before I start making it. 12 fpa Fleshripper with 50% OW, 20% Slow, PMH, or 11 fpa BBS with 50% Slow, +5 Poison Dagger, 488 Psn/10 sec.

Which one would fare better?

 

[stephan]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

One thing I'm wondering is:

A level 30 Poison dagger lasts ~13 seconds.. Why are you worrying this much about attack speed?

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Because I want to stab a group of monsters as fast as I can and then high-tail out of there to spam Fire Wall. :tongue:

... Fleshripper then?

 

[stephan]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Ah. That's a good reason. :smiley:

BBS in that case. It's simply doing more damage, is faster, safer (more slow) and the other mods on Fleshripper (CB, OW and DS) are not as important if you are only going to stab a monster once. The only better property on Fleshripper is the -50% TD.

 

[Ax2Grind]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Well, IAS on and off the weapon being treated differently than %Dam on and off the weapon is inconsistent, and saying a -10WSM with +20%IAS on-weapon being treated differently than a -30WSM makes no sense. The calculator doesn't have vampire form listed, so there was no way for me to confirm it. This game is more screwed up than I thought it was. Still, you're treating this like Rabies: you make a successful attack and move away. IAS isn't needed with that technique, and I could've avoided all this - learned.

 

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Re: [Help] Firewall/Daggermancer with Full Trang's

Alright, thanks for the help Ax2G and stephan. I'm going to try the following build out:

Skill Build
60 into Poison Tree
1 Gumby
1 Golem Mastery
1 Summon Resist
1 Dim Vision
1 Bone Armor
Enough into Lower Resist to hit -60
Pre-reqs
The remainder into Bone Prison

Item Build
Full Trang-Oul's (Guise, Scales, Claws, Wing)
Gore Rider
The Cat's Eye
BKWB
Crafted Blood Ring
Blackbog's Sharp

I'm going to Um the BBS, AR/Fervors into armor, necrohead, and helm.

Charms: Resistance, FRW, PDSC.

Hopefully it works out. I think I can manage 120+ FRW. Should be interesting.