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Hello and question on assassin

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Dr Evil, Feb 11, 2004.

  1. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil IncGamers Member

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    Hello and question on assassin

    I have just restarted playing diablo LOD,after a long time not playing. Used to read this forum sometimes,never posted much,besides a few questions here and there..
    Anyways, I have just started a martial artist assy, intending to max tiger strike and phoenix strike. My problem is whether to go dual claw,or claw and shield. As far as i can see, c/s is much better, as it saves having to put points in fade and in weapon block. Besides, c/c does not allow charging up faster... But c/c is just too cool to watch! I've never gone past mephisto nightmare,so don't really know what awaits me after that...
    What to do?!? :scratch:
    (sorry if this has been discussed before,but couldnt find other threads relating to it...)
    Thanks!
     
  2. nemar

    nemar IncGamers Member

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    I think 2 claws will be betters , 2 claws with +3 is always fun. and the block will not better with shield in that case.

    you loose option of resist but it's not terrible
     
  3. strijdje

    strijdje IncGamers Member

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    Hi Dr.evil :wave:welcome to the SPF.. hope u will enjoy your stay here...

    as for your question, i assume that you will play SC, if u are intend to play Hc play c/s no doubt about it ^^

    i personnaly would go c/c in SC... just because c/s is for a trapper or a more defensive type of sin IMO. Dual claw gives you a good opportunity to save alot of stat points in dex (which u need with a shield to aquire a good % to block) while 5 points in weapon block (plus the +skills on your dual claws, like bartuc cut-throaths will boost it to a good amount of blocking )..

    but the main reason i made my 3 MA assasins dual claw was just because it looked way better... i have the acces to a stash of really good claws (bartucs, jade's, shadowkillers nat's claw etc) i can make good combinations off damage and or res... but if u dont have this, i suggest u make your assassin c/s for the moment, get some good claws and make a dual claw after that... so you can first expirience the new patch and the affects of a c/s using assassin before u will make a c/c assassin...

    good luck with your assassin :thumbsup:

    robin
     
  4. Borlag

    Borlag IncGamers Member

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    welcome to the forums :)

    As for the assassins, a good sniper rifle or a piano string seems to work the best ;)
     
  5. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil IncGamers Member

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    A piano string all the way..more slick.. In any case, thanks for the replies,pretty fast,must say! I'm basically playing with what i find, as I don't have any items... But I think i'll go c/c anyways,given that I don't think I will have the patience to take two sins very far...
     
  6. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil IncGamers Member

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    Actually,second thoughts, i have another question.. How much are claw mastery and dragon claws really worth? Few points? Maxing? (considering i will be maxing phoenix,i'll probably need a few points in fists of fire as well)
     
  7. strijdje

    strijdje IncGamers Member

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    as soon as i get my computer back, its being repared at the moment, i'll send u some wicked claws :teeth: u know how too use ATMA already?
    maybe u can read the assassin forum to help u in your quest for answers..

    robin
     
  8. Dr Evil

    Dr Evil IncGamers Member

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    I really appreciate the offer strijdje,it's very kind, but I would prefer to play with just stuff I find for now.... (might start hunting u down later tho..) I haven't used atma yet, cos i only have 2 chars right now,one in act I, one in act II (normal)... so no decent items yet.. Thanks anyway though
     
  9. Kremtok

    Kremtok IncGamers Member

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    In my experience, the deciding factor in playing with dual claws or claw and shield is the gear you have for resistances. A Martial Arts Assassin needs lots of resists, and maxed Physical Damage Reduction helps, too, and a shield is an easy, convenient way to get up to nearly +70 to all resistances. I played my assassin with dual Bartuc's Cut-Throats in 1.09 all the way to Hell, when the resists really became an important factor in her survival. When I got to Hell, I used the highest damage Bartuc's that I had, with a Moser's Blessed Circle (socketed with Um and Perfect Diamond) for a really good chance to block, along with +66 to all resists. You really don't need many points in dexterity to keep your blocking chance at a reasonable level; I think my Assassin had around 100 or so with equipment.

    By an amazing stroke of luck, I found a Natalya's Mark, which completed my Natalya's Odium set. This, combined with a +45 to all resists Jade Talon, effectively solved my resistance problems, and I was able to go dual claws once again.

    As for your skill points, put one in everything; it's worth it. As far as which to max, Tiger Strike and Phoenix Strike are good skills, but you really don't need to max both of them to be effective. My suggestion is to max Phoenix strike, and leave Tiger Strike around level 10, before +skills equipment. With a claw doing decent damage, Tiger Strike is extremely effective at this level. As for your finisher, I used the dual-claw attack (I can't remember what it's called - help me out here!). Most people prefer to use a kick in 1.10, but this method was effective in 1.09 and still is now. It's the only way you can use both of your claws with Tiger strike. If you haven't noticed, you only attack with one of your claws when using Tiger Strike, so open your character stat screen and inventory to see which gives you more damage. It also makes a difference which order you insert two claws, if one has more damage than the other.

    This was rather long-winded, but I believe I have answered all of your questions. Let us know if you have any more, and welcome to the forum.
     
  10. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    Some advise: Read the guides at the Assassin forum. You seem to be looking at the skills that at first glance seem appealing, but you'll find those skills either don't work well alongside eachother, or lack backup from other skills. Jrichard's untwinked trapsin guide is a very good start, but if you don't like trapsins, make a choice between kicksin or MA-sin. The choice largely determines gear and stat/skill allocation, so consider your options before commiting to a build. I'd be happy to give more specific input, but a bit more information from your side is needed for that (for starters what kind of build you want to try).
     
  11. Zarhrezz

    Zarhrezz IncGamers Member

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    I would advise against this. Choose your skills and max those (possibly with their synergies) but don't put points just anywhere. Not all skills are one-points-wonders, don't waste points on the ones that are not.

    I believe that the Tiger Strike bonus is only applied to the first strike of Dragon Claw, so no advantage there. Also Dragon Claw got a bit of a nerf in 1.10, it's no longer uninterruptable (which was it's biggest pro). Besides that, Dragon Claw needs heavy investment into Claw Mastery to deal significant damage, investment that goes to waste when using any of the elemental chargeup skills (where elemental damage is what kills, not the physical part).
    Imo, Tiger Strike is either 1 points or maxxed and maxxed only when used with Dragon Tail. Phoenix Strike is very good, but needs synergies to be viable in late NM/hell as main skill. It's a good 2nd skill on it's own alongside Dragon Talon for example.
     
  12. Kaysaar

    Kaysaar IncGamers Member

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    No assassin answers here, but Welcome! :howdy:
     
  13. cryist

    cryist IncGamers Member

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    what Zarhrezz said, even better yet here is the link to it..http://www.rpgforums.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=15

    I had played both c/c c/s its just a mater of preferance c/c=more damage c/s=more protection..
     
  14. Mage11

    Mage11 IncGamers Member

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    Greetings, Dr Evil, and welcome to our forums. Please remember to read the FAQs and behave in front of our elite uniques.

    While you can get some good tips out of this forum, it is probably a good idea to have a quick look at the Assassin forum for some more specific details. From what I remember, and this is mostly 1.09 info & may not apply to 1.10, the Tiger Strike and Phoenix Strike skills do not apply on both hits of Dragon Claw, only the first. These skills are usually more useful for c/s assassins.

    However, I think that the individual elemental skill such as BoI and CoT did apply (at least in 1.09) to both attacks, and were thus preferred for c/c assassins. You may want to confirm this with the Assassin forum, and read a couple of their guides for further information.

    You should also be aware that when using charge-up skills & releases, a decent set up of your skill hotkeys can be very useful. When playing an assassin (I personally prefer c/s using PS and TS myself), I like to set my hotkeys to the qwert, asdfg, and zxcvb keys. I then set all my charge up skills to one row, my release skills to another and my traps & passives to the third. I set all my attack skills to my left side, and it becomes a matter of timing & practice to get the charge-up & release cycle perfect.

    So after digesting all that, I'll invite you down to the local forum bar, the EMB, for a quiet drink or two - the first one's on me.

    Enjoy your time here.
     
  15. Vinmar

    Vinmar IncGamers Member

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    Didn't notice if I anyone mentioned it but weapon block will block attacks that a shield doesn't. I remember reasing something about it in the Assassin Forum.


    Vinmar
     
  16. jrichard

    jrichard IncGamers Member

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    I hope Wildjinn is around for this, i warned him that one day i'd get back up on my WB soapbox and here it goes. :)

    As of this patch, i really don't see a need for a PvM (not pvp) 'sin to go with a c/s setup.

    WB in pvm doesn't need to be maxed. You'll get 50% blocking at level 10. That's including +skills. Even untwinked i can manage to find 4 or 5 skills items meaning you get decent blocking for 5 or 6 skill pts and no major investment into dexterity. That's a lot of pts left over for vitality or str if you are a kicker.

    WB's blocking % doesn't not drop while you are moving. With a shield, your blocking drops to 1/3 while moving. 'Sins need to be moving constantly. They are not tanks and shouldn't be used as such without specifically designing the build for that end.

    WB will block elemental attacks except for area attacks such as the fire left by a meteor or if you're standing in a fire wall. It will block the meteor impact damage, though. :) This elemental blocking does include the lightning from black souls.

    Although i almost always manage to max resists with c/c 'sins, one of the things i always see brought up as a drawback of going c/c is that it is more difficult to get max resists. Consider the elemental blocking mentioned above. In that, the 'sin using WB begins to go beyond resisting elemental attacks and into negating them. At level 10 WB, that's half of many of the elemental attacks in the game negated. Still, 'sins have fade to make up some ground when they find themselves needing a resist boost. Fade also provides 1% PDR for every level it's cast at. Like WB's blocking percentage, this does take +skills into account. These aren't synergy bonuses which depend on actual pts assigned to the skill. Once we start to factor all of this in, the argument that a c/s 'sin is safer begins to lose its allure.

    As far as a c/s 'sin being able to get more PDR, let me try to put this nicely :).
    Pvm 'sins who need to have max PDR in order to survive aren't playing the class to it's strengths. If you want a tank, get a pally or barb. 'Sins are more finesse and tactical fighters. My experience with 'sins in 1.10 so far leads me to the conclusion that reliance on DR with a 'sin will lead to her demise. She doesn't have the defense or life boosting skills of the tank classes to survive long in a crowd in hell level even with maxed DR. Relying on it will land you in one of those crowds sooner or later. Not as much of an issue for SC characters probably, but still a minor issue even for them. In order for 'sins to survive in the midst of a crowd, they need to be in control of it. CoS, MB, or PS's third charge will serve a 'sin better than max PDR. If they can't see you, are stunned, or can't move due to being frozen, you don't need that much PDR.

    I'm going to hop off of that soapbox before i really get started. :)

    A few other pts i would mention from your post. Attacks with TS, CS, and PS only use one claw. They are not inherently slower due to having two claws equipped. The subject of c/c attack speeds is another rather long and involved one and i won't delve into it here. The only thing i will say is that the WSMs of the two claws are averaged* and IAS on the secondary claw won't affect attack speed. With two claws that have the same base speed, charging PS with a c/c'er will be no slower than for a c/s 'sin. DC and the left-side attacks on the MA tree can actually achieve faster speeds than the TS, CS and PS attacks. The middle attacks can only get to 7 frames/hit while the left side skills can get to 5 frames/hit.
    * A big exception to this is if you equip a faster claw first and put it on the right side of the character screen then equip a very slow claw on the left side. There's a bug with claw speeds than will make this setup far faster than a single claw setup. Check the assassin forum for some more info on this, it's rather too involved for me to make this long and boring post longer and more boring.

    If you are going to use DC, don't invest in TS. You'll actually do less damage over time if you stop hitting with DC to charge up TS.

    Despite my rather long rant here, i'll finish by saying that in the end, it's going to be a matter of what you're more comfortable with. I'd say try both as you quest through normal and get a feel for what you like.

    jrichard
     
  17. brainfloss

    brainfloss IncGamers Member

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    In 1.09 I think a c/s was more attractive due to a few factors - more blocking, higher damage reduction cap, resist problems, the fact that the dual-claw chargeups weren't that strong...

    Now, c/c looks a lot better, because of Jade Talon and the improvement of the elemental chargeup skills.
     
  18. strijdje

    strijdje IncGamers Member

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    hmm interesting richarch, my c/c assy with nat's and jade talon, switch tucs//tucs blocked those elemental attacks after all, i have put 5 point in WB, i always do with c/c sassies but i never knew they blocked ranged attacks and elemental attacks.. is there somewhere on the assa forum a thread about this or was it vaporized wth the forum crash?

    thnx!, robin
     
  19. Ravenforce3

    Ravenforce3 IncGamers Member

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    This is inspiring me to make a C/C assy using a pair of Jade Talons...too bad I already have about 8 other characters sitting in Act Two Norm that I just don't play that often.
     
  20. Crazy Runner Guy

    Crazy Runner Guy IncGamers Member

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    A better combo would be Tuc's/Jade Talon

    crg
     

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