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Hearing a lot about BvC barbs, what are their Str/Weaknesses? der=

Discussion in 'PvP' started by semisonic9, Mar 20, 2005.

  1. semisonic9

    semisonic9 IncGamers Member

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    Hearing a lot about BvC barbs, what are their Str/Weaknesses?

    Also, if there is a new or great guide, could I catch a link plz? The only info I have is from a segment in a good ww guide.

    How do they get the fcr to catch sorcs, and are they really that good? Does it have to be strictly BvC, or can you go BvB/BvC too? Isn't the main difference gear and 20 points in shout?
     
  2. semisonic9

    semisonic9 IncGamers Member

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    Threw one together, found out they're not so hot against ES sorcs. Anything else?
     
  3. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    BvC barbs that are properly build can handly almost any caster build. Minionstacking druids and necros are deadly, but you can leap those away. Sorcies can hurt a lot, but again, leap stuns them, etc etc. Basically, Leap is the best weapon of the BvC barb.That, and 6K life, good dmg and resist ^.^

    HoD
     
  4. semisonic9

    semisonic9 IncGamers Member

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    Hmmm...how are u supposed to be able to leap onto a fast moving caster? I'd heard to put points in leap, but I thought it was for evasive purposes.
     
  5. jordy666

    jordy666 IncGamers Member

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    with a high lvl leap it stuns/KB's around 1-1.5 screen.
    So i think most bvc barbs do little baby leaps, and stun other players then tele in and WW for teh kill.

    -jordy :rolleyes:
     
  6. Herald of Doom

    Herald of Doom IncGamers Member

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    You never duelled a BvC with a caster yourself? You just do shift+leap, and if your leap is lvl 18 or higher you have a knockback radius bigger than your screen. So, you just leap, they get stunned while teleporting, you leap again in their direction and finish with a ww. Even my semi-decent sorc with 86%fhr, max block and 1500 life gets pretty much killed by every decent BvC barb. Leap is the best part of a BvC ^.^

    HoD
     
  7. semisonic9

    semisonic9 IncGamers Member

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    Wow, important tips! That was never mentioned in any of the BvC barb sections I'd seen. They said to put points in leap, but I never saw that they said why or anything, I always thought it was kinda to dodge incoming spells and stuff. Interesting, really cool. Getting excited about the build now... :uhhuh:

    Yeah, I only dueled one once in pubbies, but it really seemed like he was AA tele so I just let him go. And yeah, i know the diff between AA and namelocking, this was a BM guy. Kinda spoiled it for me, hadn't really seen this build much online though it is supposed to be good. Just, honestly, with that level of gear I was amazed someone felt the need to cheat.



    So, to be clear, the build is:

    20 in mastery
    20 in WW
    20 in BO
    x in leap? max it, or is there a BP?
    Rest in Shout? +def more than Iron Skin per point...but is this build entirely useless vs. melee?
    1 in all the passives, possibly 1-10 in Passive Resists?
    prereqs

    BotD/(Grief maybe?), Beast, Enigma, Arreats (umed), Trangs (?), Arachs, then Fcr gear to hit the 65 fcr bp or resist/absorb gear as needed? The obligatory 4 ptopazed shield, hotspurs, d.star, wisps, etc. in the stash too.

    Skillers...combats, or should I get any warcry/masteries gcs? Trying to get em with life too, obviously.

    Stats:

    30: Strength with anni...basicly none for me then
    Dex: ? How much AR is good for this build? Do I need any?
    Vita: Rest here. What's a good life amount to shoot for?


    If you're feeling lazy, just a link to the best BvC page you have would be great. There really doesn't seem to be one on this forum, I've been looking on other forums I frequent as well with no luck.
     
  8. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    Here are some basics.

    Best combo is:
    grief zerker/beast zerker

    NL:
    botd zerker/beast zerker

    vital gear: archnids, 2x fcr rings, 2x ravens, highlords, angelics, (ss), gores, resist boots, verdungos, wizzy or silence zerker, demon limb, armor switch: duress or fort, enigma, ber/ber coa, arreats.
    Charms: ar/max/life charms are the best; anni, resist/life charms

    Dracs>Rends

    Leap is only necessary if you plan to never duel a max block barb. If you want to be able to beat EVERYONE, leap is not a viable route since you're defensive will severely suffer. However if you are no block, you need no ss and leap is usealbe since Ironskin is useless if you have no block.

    Barbs have NO weakness. The hardest duel is a necro and another barb. To date, only 3 necros I can recall have dominated me: subverses, phyrexial, and koda.
    ES sorcs aren't close to impossible to beat. Their ES wont take many hits from WW duel wielding because it does an insane amount of multi hit dmg. Also you have OW.

    Some hard duels will be hammer, windy, and bliz/ESorbers. At the very least you should go 50/50 with them. Regarding hammerdins, I have only lost to 1 hammerdin and I go 50/50 with really good druids, and around 7/3 with good bliz/orbers.

    Also note that my barb does not use leap since I also bvb.

    I used what i am able to do as an example to show you want a barb is capable of, sorry if it sounds like im bragging.

    Also dueling casters is all about namelocking, especially while STILL IN WW. This allows you to hold a namelock while the caster teles away, then smack em with tele+ww when they arent prepared. Also since 1) i cant keep minimap up and tele without lagging and 2) i have no leap ; predicting where the caster will go is a good way to get in some hits.
    Also you can force a caster to follow you by teleing away from them in one direction, then quickly going towards them.
     
  9. qazxswcde

    qazxswcde IncGamers Member

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    from what iv seen leap is overated but iv never had the time to get that high well if your playing on later here was my gear

    wep ebotd ghost spear(recomended cheaper then a zerker to)
    arm fort
    helm umed arreats
    boots goreriders
    belt ik
    gloves ik
    ring angelic raven
    ammy angelic

    life,frw and resist charms are needed if you poor bulk is better then quality and a anni skills are

    20 ww
    20 spear mastry
    20 bo
    10 run speed
    10 nat resist

    if possible get over the top in resist by at least 50 this is very hard in hell so you may wanna try nm dueling (barbs are much better there)

    keep these items handy
    firewalks?=for fire sorcs
    tgods=if you dont lag you really dont need for casters
    snowclash and a spare raven=immunity to bliz and and orb

    just chase and short ww everyone eventually makes mistakes if someone teleing aka a fcr/orb sorc get another target
     
  10. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    leap is very effective, mainly vs sorcs and windys, does ok vs hammerdins. But you can do nearly as well without it if your good at namelocking.

    IMO it really makes a big difference to have leap vs a windy thou, much easier duel with good leap.

    also using 2handers is only good pvm.
    PVP, 2 1 handed weapons outputs much more damage, and you get the mods of two weapons.

    r/w charms = nono

    duress/fort are only useful vs stationary targets, desync hammerdins, and ocassionally a windy.

    anything that can teleport, engima is far superior.

    most of the stuff the posted above me stated is false.
    keep increased speed at 1, and you only need to pump a bit in nat resist after you finish leap and if your resists are low after gear (however you shouldnt ahve any problems if you use resist boots/caster rings)


    ik gloves and belt pale in comparison to a drac/dungos combo or drac/archnids.

    also angelics arent that good since they are only useful vs: smiters/zealers/other barbs.

    Highlords+ ravens/fcr rings are the best option most of the time.
     
  11. semisonic9

    semisonic9 IncGamers Member

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    Good posts guys, thanks.

    Greif and Beast will be cheaper and easier to get than BotD and Beast, but this also means I shouldn't bother with any poison charms too, because the high % venom will reduce the charms damage/duration to basicly nothing. I guess I will count on OW to do the job poison shoulda done. However, am I losing any breakpoints in the WW speed with the reduced IAS?

    So, you guys are advocating NO skiller charms, just ar/life/damage charms? I've had offers of combat charms with notable life for pretty cheap, still not worth it? kinda strange...a build with no skillers...

    Also, the only fcr rings I have are two decent 10%-ers, so to hit even the 65% bp I would have to use arach's and trangs +the ringsa nd a crappy fcr ammy I have. Trangs should go fine with the Grief to boost the poison damage from venom I guess.

    Can anyone link me to good calculators and stuff for IAS/FCR breakpoints? What's the fcr BP after 65 for a barb, and just how many fhr small charms do I need to stock to get a good recovery rate? I have like 10x5% fhr, but what's a good place to stop?
     
  12. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    You shouldn't use poisoncharms anyway, they suck.

    Make sure your grief zerker has 34+ ias and you meet the last ww bp.
    You CANNOT use it if it has less than 34 ias.

    Charms depends on what you can afford, max/ar/lifers are definately the best.
    If those are too expensive, wc-skillers with life will do. Mastery/combatskillers with life are the last option imo.

    40% fcr is enough, i.e. arach+2x fcr rings. Use draculs.

    The fcr bps are the same as for sorcs, i.e. 37%, 63%, 105%, 200%.

    You get 30% fhr from arreats and that's good enough in most duels.
    If you want more (handy sometimes, especially vs trappers&necs) you can use 4x fhr scs to meet the 48% bp.
     
  13. qazxswcde

    qazxswcde IncGamers Member

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    well first off my barb was one of my more sucesfull duelers so i coudnt have had that bad gear but i was working with what i got k first point

    1 botd spear have farther range then other weps allowing the ww lock bug to work with greater effect

    2 enigma only decent mod for a barb is 45 walk speed fort has 300ed and 25-30 resist(barbs tele far to slow without fcr and still far o slow to catch anyone with it)

    3 r/w charms are a lesser priorty however you gotta be movin fast enough to keep with the tele

    you want 10 of those . if for no other reason then theres nothing else to put the points on the only pluses are arreats and anni

    glove belt combo would probally be better but the dr on dungoes is useless

    been awile since i played game
     
  14. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    1) Range is not important since you're always in range after tele.

    2) Lol? Barbs have the same fcr-tables as sorcs. 40% fcr gives 10 fps tele, enough to catch any caster.

    3) You use tele to catch casters, nothing else.

    Dr useless? Dueled druids/smiters/zealots at all?

    Leap is NOT overrated btw, it's extremely useful vs any caster, and godly vs necs&druids. Actually leap allows you to get namelock even if they have 3874874% fhr, something that's hard if they tele like madmen...
     
  15. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    morot took care of most of the false things the other guy stated.

    while range 5 is nice, 2 1 handers if far superior in dmg and it also hits 1.5x more.

    enigma > fort in most situations; unless you wanna be only bvb or something (boring imo).

    you CANT catch a good caster (excluding windys and hammerdins) without enigma. A good zon will murder you too without engiam if they are fast enough.

    also r/w charms are a nono, because more r/w=you hit less per ww. while it does have one good point=faster moving ww, i'd take being slower and more dmg anyday.
    also you shoudl have high life/max resist/ and max dr when needed so taking a hit or two shouldnt be a problem.
     
  16. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    Actually dualwielding hit twice as much except for the first 4:th frame where only your primary weapon hits ;D
     
  17. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    i dunno any of those forumlas and crap, or how r/w actually works, i just listen to was blobs, mcm, and mhmh have told me:
    duel wielding hit 1.5x more
    less r/w = more hits =optimal= 1 point I.S. + boot r/w + enigma
     
  18. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    So do I =)

    According to them you hit like this:
    4:th frame - botd
    8:th frame - botd+beast
    12:th frame - botd+beast
    16:th frame - botd+beast
    etc...

    Regarding runwalk; if you have more increased speed you have to be better at controlling your whirls, i.e. short triangles. It sucks to have crappy runwalk when you get golem slowed/frozen/decrepified imo...
     
  19. semisonic9

    semisonic9 IncGamers Member

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    Hey, out of curiosity, why not a Doom Zerker instead of the BotD? The slow effect would probably replace the extra damage from BotD by holding them in place longer.

    I think sometimes Doom Zerkers are BM, under what conditions and why? With the dream, hoj runewords out there, seems kinda moot....

    anyway, random thought.
     
  20. luis19

    luis19 IncGamers Member

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    doom is useful only vs non caster/ww builds, which you should beat anyways.

    the only thing i would even consider getting a doom for would be a grief smiter.

    a majority of the ppl you duel should be casters, in which case beast is the best offhand weapon.
     

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