Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Health Insurance Rates Rise Due To Health Care Reform

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Talga Vasternich, Sep 11, 2010.

  1. Talga Vasternich

    Talga Vasternich IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    We who fought against this told you this would happen.
    Article
    From the article:
    In addition to pledging that the law would restrain increases in Americans' insurance premiums, Democrats front-loaded the legislation with early provisions they hoped would boost public support. Those include letting children stay on their parents' insurance policies until age 26, eliminating co-payments for preventive care and barring insurers from denying policies to children with pre-existing conditions, plus the elimination of the coverage caps.

    Weeks before the election, insurance companies began telling state regulators it is those very provisions that are forcing them to increase their rates.
     
  2. ohnoyellowdinosaur

    ohnoyellowdinosaur IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    78
    The health insurance that my mom has for my dad, sister and I has risen a few hundred dollars as well.

    It was pretty obvious that this would happen. When you have competition restricted because of federal laws, regulations on how to operate because of federal laws, and mandates on what to cover because of state law, insurance is already costly.

    Why would a bill that passes more of these laws, regulations and mandates make things cheaper?

    How would a public option (which is All laws, regulations and mandates) make things cheaper?

    Free market medicine is failing? What free market?
     
  3. SonataArctica

    SonataArctica IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2008
    Messages:
    899
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    121
    Hmm, it seems like no matter what anyone does, it doesn't work. The republicans had 8 years or whatever, the dems have had a lil while too.

    It's almost like this polarization of ideas that HAVE TO lean either right or left, with no middle ground compromise, doesn't work.

    Go figure.
     
  4. ohnoyellowdinosaur

    ohnoyellowdinosaur IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    78
    We had a Republican president for 8 years; not a republican congress.

    The problem is not a lack of compromise. The problem is a lack of true free-market advocates.

    The republicans have failed to be as conservative as they claimed they were. It has nothing to do with polarization.


     
  5. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,563
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Affordable Care Act to Result in Less Affordable Care
    Gee, color me surprised. :coffee:
     
  6. Glurin

    Glurin IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Don't worry guys. I'm sure they'll pass another fifty thousand pages of legislation in a few days to help solve this insurance premium crisis. Everything will be all right as long as those racists who can't stand that we have a black president get out the way and let the government take care of it.

    :hang:
     
  7. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,563
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Administration Threatens Insurers Whose Costs Contradict Administration Theory

    Health and Human Services has issued a letter to the insurance industry, promising "zero tolerance" for any insurer who dares to blame the administration for rising health insurance costs. You see, the white house has models to predict what should happen, and if it doesn't turn out that way in reality, then reality is the one in the wrong:

    (Courtesy of The Volokh Conspiracy)
    "Nice health insurance company ya got there. Shame if anything were to happen to it . . ."
     
  8. Glurin

    Glurin IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2004
    Messages:
    1,050
    Likes Received:
    65
    Trophy Points:
    126
    Can't say that's really surprising either. It was pretty clear from all the promises about the bill that many of them didn't have a particularly good grip on reality from the start.

    I had a boss like that once. (Well, more than once.) Made my job extremely difficult, since I had to bend reality to his will or face unemployment. Never ended well, if at all. :banghead:
     
  9. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    6,189
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Heh ... it's not like health care insurance rates haven't been rising through the roof for years.

    Lets blame it on Obama and the Democrats.

    Who cares that the Republicans introduced nearly the same health-care bill a decade earlier?

    Lets score some political points. Yah ... that's the ticket.


    ROFL
     
  10. ohnoyellowdinosaur

    ohnoyellowdinosaur IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2008
    Messages:
    387
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    78
    are you quoting anybody in specific?


     
  11. llad12

    llad12 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    6,189
    Likes Received:
    3
    Trophy Points:
    466
    Are you worried I'm picking on you? Lol

    Don't get your panties in a twist. I ain't singling you out.

    I just find the hyprocrisy and BS on this board almost beyond belief.



     
  12. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,563
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Something this bill was supposed to fix. You know, to show those dirty capitalists who's boss?
    I don't blame the Democrats more than the Republicans.
    Amusing coming from you. :coffee:
    Hypocrisy? By who?



     
  13. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,947
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    I can't remember good health care coverage ever being affordable, but I'm not looking at the issue from a wealthy standpoint.

    When business is motivated by profit, lack of regulation tends to have detrimental effects, I dunno, like the failure of several major financial institutions who inadvertently allowed the economic crisis to happen in pursuing profit.

    When your healthcare is dependent on profit, can you honestly believe that decisions are made for your best interest?
     
  14. Talga Vasternich

    Talga Vasternich IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2005
    Messages:
    2,708
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    I can't remember when the least expensive health care coverage I could get was 15% of my gross income (before copayments and deductables).

    When you toss terms like "wealthy" around, there's a whole lot of wiggle room.
    Anyway, I don't qualify as wealthy by any definition, and I'll be squeezed out of health insurance coverage if premiums increase in 2011 at the same rate as 2010 and it looks like the increases will be significantly larger due to the regulations you seem to favor.
    I've said this countless times... Whenever the government gets involved with anything the costs increase and the ineffeciencies increase.



     
  15. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,563
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    467
    Why is healthcare for profit somehow different than any other good for profit? When you go to buy a TV, do you wonder if the electronics company has your best interests in mind?

    Furthermore, why do you assume that government = not for profit? The insurance companies nearly **** their pants in delight at the new healthcare bill, since it guarantees their profit margins.

    See, I like to make decisions in my own best interest. For example, I believe the best health insurance option to have is major medical, and just leave the incidentals to my savings account. Otherwise, you end up paying a lot more to the insurance companies than is required. However, the new regulations mandate that I hand that money over to the insurance companies for coverage I don't want or need, or the government will come in and take the money from me.

    Either way is profit for the insurance company, but one is me choosing the right company with the right coverage at the right price, and the other is using a threat backed with a gun to make sure the insurance companies get their profits.

    Which seems better to you?



     
  16. BobCox2

    BobCox2 IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 4, 2008
    Messages:
    12,554
    Likes Received:
    217
    Trophy Points:
    495
    Anyone else with a Health Savings Accounts (HSAs) and high-deductible health plans (HDHPs)?
    I've had one for 4 years now, and liked it but the restrictions added by the new laws are going to hurt it.
    http://www.businessweek.com/lifestyle/content/healthday/642241.html
    They are reducing the amount I can save pretax to pay the costs incurred (I pay tax on it when I use it) and are talking about changing the amounts covered and health insurers are lobbying to get out of the grandfathering in of the amounts they are required to cover in the contracts via lobbying so I know which way that's headed.

    Yeah I'm older, and make a good living but even at current tax rates I'm right at the edge of bills to take home pay every month.

    I have Adult kids and the grand-kids living with me and that is bad enough but at least it's family, don't even start talking about what this recent bailout crap has done to my savings for retirement or the fact that since I paid attention to my credit rating and I bought a home I could afford so I now get to pay to bail you other idiots out.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2010
  17. SeCKSEgai

    SeCKSEgai IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2009
    Messages:
    1,947
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    A TV is a luxury. I don't worry about dying because I don't have a TV (and I actually haven't had one for years incidentally). Health care is a necessity - illness can prevent you from making a living. If you can't get treated, you can't make a living, but if you can't afford to be treated because you can't make a living.... of course your care is ultimately dependent on class as wealth will always play a role regardless of "regulation".

    Considering the national deficit, the US Govt hasn't made a profit for... I'd need to do some research, as it goes well before my birth. But on a more serious note, I'm well aware of the politics that go into said bills, as what's supposed to serve a particular purpose must be bogged down with stipulations in order to successfully pass - often outweighing the original purpose. Special interests and all that jazz, there's no way the end result is with serving the general public in mind.

    The reason I believe for a need in regulation is as simple as looking at the financial market - deregulate and assume greed will regulate itself seems logical enough, but in actual practice greed focuses too much on the immediate gain without any foresight of the consequences. Instead of insuring steady profit by maintaining stability of the general public, the financial industry pursued large immediate gains through paths originally barred to them. Even after bailouts, the financial industry turned around producing record profits leaving the general public paying the bill.

    When it comes to Health Insurance, its a necessity. Growing up I generally didn't pay much attention to it I was pretty healthy. But as I've gotten older, the need for coverage becomes a lot more apparent. When a single x-ray alone can cost over $400, and an emergency room visit over $1000, not having some sort of coverage only leads to financial ruin if not already on the way there from lack of employment. That's just for the individual, as those costs are multiplied for the family. Health care reform was intended to make health care more affordable. Now has it actually done that, I'm not so sure.

    However, the problem with regulation is the regulators themselves. Who watches over the regulators?

    You'd hope people would make decisions to fit their own best interest, but that's not always the case. Speeding down the freeway in pouring rain on bald tires is obviously an accident waiting to happen, yet it still happens.

    No one wants to pay more for anything, especially in this economic state. Will regulation actually serve the people or only regulate the industry's profit? I can't answer that. It is after all a business that profits off the suffering of others.


     
  18. KillerAim

    KillerAim IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2004
    Messages:
    1,348
    Likes Received:
    6
    Trophy Points:
    121
    SeCKSEgai:
    So Government has a duty to protect people from the consequences of their own decisions? Does this include decisions that you want to make for yourself that conflict with the decisions of the majority? You would have no problem with some third party telling you can't do something because they have determined that you aren't smart enough to know what's good for you? Or does that sentiment only apply to people who aren't smart like you and I are?


    No, it's an industry that profits off the ease of suffering of others. Would you really continue to pay a company that either causes you suffering or whose products and services do nothing to ease your suffering?

    Using the same logic, aren't life insurance companies people that profit off of the fact that we all are going to die? And aren't food companies people that profit off the fact that we need to eat to live?
     
  19. zrk

    zrk IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,942
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Hell yeah. Paul/Palin 2012!:thumbsup:

    Secksegai, if you want to be honest with yourself, you need to read what the actual heavyweights of the free market ideology think of this, not just debunk a random guy. Namely, i am talking about von Mises, the greatest economist and liberal free thinker of the 20th century. Hers what he has to say about the source of profit:

    Full article: http://mises.org/daily/4672



     
  20. SaroDarksbane

    SaroDarksbane IncGamers Site Pal

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2003
    Messages:
    8,563
    Likes Received:
    8
    Trophy Points:
    467
    All right, what about "for profit" food companies?
    Believe me, financial consequences are a very good motivator against risky behavior. Why didn't they work, in this case? Because of the government.

    You can't tell a company that you'll save them from the consequences of any risky behavior they engage in and simultaneously blame the free market for their continued and escalating risky behavior.
    A good reason to oppose the bailouts.
    Are you saying my preferred insurance scheme is not in my best interest, and that the government should protect me from myself?
    Not really. They make money on healthy people, not sick people.

    Furthermore, if they exist solely as a leech on society, why do we need them at all?



     

Share This Page