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HC rules

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Ugla, Oct 20, 2006.

  1. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

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    HC rules

    After reading the recent thread by lpblasch which brought up the question of "honor" in HC (Save&Exit namely), I decided to start a new one dedicated to this topic.

    1. Save&Exit - you wake up from a terrible nightmare finding yourself in the safety of a town. While most players don't bother to TP back after slaughtering Pindleskin once again, some use Save&Exit to save their butts in desperate moments.

    If the Town Portal worked as it did back in D1, this would hardly be necessary. Since you cannot place the portal at your will, you are sometimes unable to enter it when engaged by mosters (which ovelap the TP). You run away a bit, recast the TP, and the new one appears behind you, right among the charging monsters; very annoying for slow runners.

    Also some monsters (wraiths) have the "divine" ability to pass through you and block you right after that, attacking stacked for more fun. These attributes are common in all Blizzard games, and their primary purpose was to substitute both AI (controlling minions) and 3D (all air units stack). Of course, with careful play, one should not even get in such situations.

    In my opinion, as the game always starts in a town, it should also end there, no matter the circumstances (unless you die, of course). Not that I'd feel happy, to keep my word somewhere deep in Hell.

    To go even further, what about mere pausing the game during the battle using the Esc key? Should our heroes really have the opportunity of time-out, until we decide which tactic would save them?

    2. Re-rolling locations/monsters - "this area is too hot", why not to come tomorrow to face some weaker enemies, or should we just wait until there are no monsters left at all? But what about the spawn-killers aka door-traps? Many builds lack the power or endurance to hold their ground against fanatic Death Lords or convicted Souls waiting right in front of the entrance. Shouldn't we equip necro wands before each exit, and hope we've chosen the right one, or at least that our valiant act1 rogue will shield us long enough before we draw out an appropriate piece from the inventory?

    "Besting the Ancients in battle is a mighty feat, indeed", no matter they spawned confused after 100 rolls and vanquished one another. But is there really a sane way to defeat the 1.10 bugged ones with a melee char?

    On the related matter, so called "parking" monsters seems as a common strategy. There is no sense in fighting anything we don't have to and risk for no reason. Nobody asked us to do this. Wait, isn't there "Kill Baal's minions"? But not ALL minions, anyway. There is also no need to explore every last location the game has to offer. Unless we lack behind in experience/level, which naturally leads us to:

    3. Running areas (not running through them). This is generally done for two reasons: items and experience. The latter seems inappropriate in the sense of previous paragraph, to recreate a safe hunting grounds while leaving the tough dungeons unconquered. The lvl99 quest is another story.

    Running for items is more related to the choice of twinked/untwinked play rather then SC/HC. Although some people find twinked play unworthy of HC, I love the idea of Septavirate with in-party trading (parallel progress, only one can use the specific item per act).

    Still, the question remains in both cases. Are the runs for better gear acceptable for each individual character, or should only one pass per area suffice. I prefer the latter, but never experienced any heavily gear dependent untwinked build.

    4. Altering player settings - should I kill some tougher monsters for more experience? Oooops, too tough. Let's go back to Px.

    Interestingly, this feature is generally accepted here, though some people restrain from changing the PS within one area/act/difficulty. It seems to me, it's even considered a matter of prestige! Like, I've made it through normal and NM on P8 :cool: Well, you made it in average 10lvls over monsters, which scarcely hit you, while having a lot more life, mana and your primary skill maxed out/synergized long before you could dream of it on P1. In other words, you defeated a bunch of underleveled harmless tanks. Congrats! :sad2:

    The difference lessens in Hell, but still giving a significant advantage at least throughout the first half. It is here, where people usually lower the PS, because the monsters finally start to do some damage. Strange as it may seem, finishing the first two difficulties on higher PS actually makes HC a lot easier. The pace of advance doesn't matter, it's the not-dying part which counts.

    5. I also noticed TP scrolls in belt on the blacklist, but wonder why. Does it have some other effect beyond occupying one precious column for saving a mouse click? :scratch:

    I made only one guardian so far after having RIP-ed 4 previous "attempts" in normal mostly due to reckless play or experimenting. I went P1 all the time, no runs (good luck on items btw), no S&E and one reload of Claw Viper Temple after being charged out from lvl2 and the entrance got blocked. A few areas in act5 were skipped/left incomplete. Out of the 4 lost characters, only 1 could be saved via S&E.

    I would definitely play HC far more (maybe exclusively), if the game wasn't that awfully bugged. Sometimes in SC, my chars died for no obvious reason, and the last thing I'm willing to do is to study those bugs and how to avoid them.

    So, what are your own rules for HC? :wink:

    Ugla
     
  2. DarkChaos

    DarkChaos IncGamers Member

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    I'll do anything I can to save my rear. On my way to 99 my Blizzballer probably rerolled the Throne close to 100 times, and I S+E'd 20-25, probably.

    I plan to do the same with my Trapsin if she needs it, as she makes her way towards that end-goal. I usually play P8 throughout the game, unless it's not an overpowered build. I do Ancients on P1.
     
  3. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Are you still playing version 1.10? Is so, it's probably the FE bug (for full details, have a look in the SPF, Game Mods & You thread from the FAQ).

    I don't really play HC much, but the one thing I really don't like is someone using ATMA to loot corpses of fallen characters. IMO, that's cheesier than a 7-cheese pizza.



     
  4. Thyiad

    Thyiad Moderator Single Player, D2 Assassin, Barbarian

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    It's your game and it's your idea of fun. Providing it doesn't impact anyone else, it shouldn't matter.

    Personally, I will S&E, personally I will re-roll, personally I will change the psettings if I am getting slaughtered. This doesn't affect anyone else. I won't loot a HC char and I if my HC chars ever trade (unlikely) I wouldn't be happy having looted items. HC>SC fine, SC>HC no.

    No matter which way you cut it a Guardian is a remarkable achievement; how can you detract from it if you run once in a while?
     
  5. Spearthrower

    Spearthrower IncGamers Member

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    Not that it matters, but I dont do anything even mildly borderline exploitative.

    I load the game, put it on Players 8 and play to kill every last monster that stumbles past me.

    I personally would find it too close to cheating to drop the players setting whenever I felt like it.... but I really dont care if others do - that's their game and up to them! That pretty much goes for all you said, while I can accept that these are very very grey areas and that you made some interesting points..... this is ultimately about fun, not rules and people should play however makes them happy!
     
  6. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    I'm just going to give my opinions. I want to give the disclaimer that it's just what makes the game fun for me. If something else works for you, that's fine too. :grin:

    I won't save and exit to save my skin, but I don't always head back to town to leave the game. Most of my HC deaths were actually the slow deaths where S&E would have helped, but it just wouldn't feel right. I will hit the escape key, though. Sometimes that extra minute to take a deep breath and look at which slots in my belt still have potions makes the difference.

    I generally try to take on what I get, but I've learned to live to fight another day if things get out of hand and I am able to get back to town. (Assuming tourney rules allow it.) I do re-roll the ancients, but I'm not generally patient enough to do it more than 4 or 5 times. Generally, the only things that will spark a reroll are might, fanatasism, or cursed. I hate parking monsters. I think the only HC character I've had that regularly parked monsters was Clyde, and since he was supposed to stay as low a level as possible (Survivor Tourney) it made sense to park them.

    I generally don't run areas to improve equipment for my HC characters. I would hate to lose a character that way, and I usually don't have the patience for it. Running areas also kills a lot of the fun of playing untwinked for me. When I play untwinked, I like to have to deal with the resources from killing each monster once. This also encourages the full clear, and creates a penalty for parking monsters. When I play twinked, it doesn't really matter.

    Fortunately, the mechanics of the player setting prevent the worst abuse (well, except for chest popping.) If you find a nasty pack of monsters at a high player setting, lowering it doesn't affect them. In HC, I usually just pick a setting for a difficulty level and go with it. (Generally /p8 for Normal and NM, and /p1 for Hell.) Cheesy? Sure. But it works for me.

    I belive that when used from the belt, it skips the casting animation, which can make a big difference when surounded in whether or not you can actually get one open.



     
  7. DarkChaos

    DarkChaos IncGamers Member

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    Correct. You can use a scroll in the belt even if you are stun-locked, block-locked, and in hit-recovery mode all at the same time.



     
  8. Fluffballer

    Fluffballer IncGamers Member

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    1. Save&Exit - Not for me. If I played twinked HC characters or reran areas, I would be ok with it, but when I play HC, it's to follow the story.

    2. Re-rolling locations/monsters - I don't do this for normal areas. It may happen with the ancients if I'm running from them, but I usually don't care about their mods, so I at least attempt all rolls of them.

    3. Running areas - Definitely not for me, since it breaks my storyline. On a related note, untwinked to me means you take what the game gives you, not you take from the game what you want. An untwinked Baal runner Hammerdin with Arachnids, Shako, and Enigma just doesn't make sense.

    4. Altering player settings - I personally find P8 a good bit more challenging than P1, especially considering being untwinked. The monsters do considerably more damage and you're far more likely to bite off more than you can chew. Stumble across the wrong boss pack or even just an extra pack of normal monsters you didn't intend to wake up and you could be in a heap of trouble. Trapped areas become far more deadly-- trying to hack through P8 tanks in a Kurast temple while you're being poisoned by Spider Magi and meteors drop on you is dangerous. It would be far safer if you could easily kill some P1 tanks and get some breathing room.

    Ideally I'd be at P8 from Normal Blood Moor to Hell Baal, though usually I lower it when I get bored and want to quit or need to go somewhere. Sometimes it's just not possible to go P8 in Hell and still have a good time, so that get's lowered based on the character.

    My one exception are bosses and the ancients. For example Baal at any difficulty is not TOO hard, but man is he annoying to fight. I'd rather just get it over with.

    5. TP scrolls in belt - I've never tried it and didn't realize it got rid of the casting animation. I am completely fine with this because it strikes me as something Blizzard intended to give us the option of, not a bug.
     
  9. Llathias

    Llathias Banned

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    So, are you suggesting that HC should be played full-clear-once, at p1 from the beginning to end? I'd also add no ATMA to go with the theme... There are only a few people that I know who plays full-clear-once, jiansonz being the best known, and he plays at p8 in Normal & NM. How many builds are there that can actually kill things without any running or high players settings? Good luck with melee builds!

    I personally do whatever I wish to do at the moment. If I can avoid death with a S&E, I will. Better survive than lose hours of work for the sake of "honor" (in a computer game :shocked:). If I get trapped on a door, face Fanatic-Cursed-Extra Fast-Extra Strong-Conviction-FE Ancients, enter an area only filled with CIs when I play a pure Blizz sorc or confront dozens of OKs with a physical dmg melee build, I'll reroll. If, by the time I reach Meph, I have insufficiently poor gear yet he poses no danger, I'll run him to my heart's content, till I get bored or obtain what I want. I won't bother with the Hole, Ancient Tunnels, random Temples/Dungeons, Icy Caves, Hell Portals and the like. I keep p8 only for bragging rights, but might alternate it in my future characters according to the rate of exp gain. And the reason I don't use TP scrolls in belt is that I need those slots for potions (and if I'm already stun-locked, I probably won't be able to use the TP even though I menage to cast it). If anyone thinks this playstyle in HC is non-honorable/cheesy/shameful/cheating, well, it's their problem. I would not play the game at all with full-clear-once-p1, and as long as I enjoy the way I play, I don't care about what other people think of it.
     
  10. Butzull

    Butzull IncGamers Member

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    1. Save and Exit: Not ever. I've lost quite a few HC characters over Level 70 (in other words LOTS of time and effort) where I could have. Every time hurts, but otherwise I should just play SC.

    2. Rerolling monsters: I definitely used to reroll the Ancients when the FE bug was in it's prime, but haven't since returning to the game (mind you, I haven't got to Hell Ancients this time round yet). For normal monsters, I try to kill or avoid anything that is too tough, but once or twice a nasty stair trap that I have to get past has caused me to go back to town and leave the game.

    3. Re-running areas: Absolutely, unless tournament rules forbid it. I'm going for a self-found HC grail, there's no other way. Oh, and I'm glad you like the Septavirate idea, given that it was basically my baby in this forum. :)

    4. Altering player settings: Yes, I do it, but try to restrict as much as possible. E.g, if i know Diablo is going to take me forever (or be impossible to kill) I'll drop the setting for him. I never change settings to pop chests though.

    5: TP in belt. I've never used it but actually have no problem with it...even if all my tourneys forbid it. It is NOT a bug in game mechanics, they coded it so you could put them in there, so I think it was meant to be legit.

    Butz. :dunce:
     
  11. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    This is really just matter of playstyle. However, armed with idea of ITIL, may I put HC (or SC) in the "best practic" way of thinking.

    1. When ever we have unpredicted difficulty (out of "normal operation"), we have incident.
    2. The goal for incident management is to quick fix (eg. E&S) and reture to "normal operation" as soon as possible.
    3. Multiple similar incidents or single "really bad" incident forms a problem. Now we do problem management. We need to find the root of the problem.
    4. once we know the root of the problem, we need solution. So we need to get change management (try different strategies, gears, etc). sometimes the solution is rather a work-around.
    5. We must change in order to fix the problem and provent further incident to happen and put the change into "system".

    The core is "change", eg. if the root problem is careless playstyle, then change it. Stick with something (playstlye) we enjoy is fine, but if it generate problems, it is wise to modify what went wrong rather than apply "quick fix" or blame not everything follows our wishes.

    In more understandable D2 terms, I feel most E&S should be avoided in HC. If I found I must "regularly" relay on this to save my char, that means I'm doing something wrong, and I need to find the problem and make the change to provent similar incidents.

    In case of racing for lvl99, E&S might be only feasible way to reach it, and it is acceptable solution. However I don't feel normal HC play should follow the special way of play of insan event (yes, all you guys try lvl99 are insan :thumbsup: ).

    However, regardless using E&S or not, HC is HC. The risk of death is always there, and it is always different than SC.
     
  12. lpblasch

    lpblasch IncGamers Member

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    @Ugla... great thread. This dialog is very interesting to me as a novice HC player. I mentioned not using S&E as a matter of "honor" because most of the tournaments I read about had VERY strict rules about how to play, and what actions would be acceptable, so I sort of assumed ALL HC players shunned the use. Someday I hope to be acomplished enough to actually ENTER a tournament!

    @Deathmaster... nice analysis. As I think about the death of my first HC char (Fishymancer) the problem was being careless, because I was anticipating finding the Crystalline Passage WP any second, so I was motoring around corners when I ran into the wall of Archers who did me in. My army of skellies was lagging behind, as usual. Playstyle was at fault, and now I know about DV to help in the future.



     
  13. Drystan

    Drystan IncGamers Member

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    The tournies hate the S&E because it's a tournament and is meant to require skill, not who can push Escape quickest. It's to encourage death among players, and they are tourney chars, untwinked, and meant for a challenge, style, comp.

    With my regular HC chars, I don't have any rules really. Whatever will save them (within the rules,) so that I don't have to restart. Some I limit on twinkage, while others are not. The only rule I have is selffound, and they're shared with each other.

    If I make a special char (tourney, naked, weaponless etc) they are not allowed S&E to escape death. I've currently got an unusual sorc (hasn't been played for ages) and because she's special, she's going naked (might change and limit if it becomes practically imposs,) untwinked and no S&E. It's to make it more challenging for the special char, so that if she gets an accomplishment, it's a major accomplishment.
     
  14. Shagsbeard

    Shagsbeard IncGamers Member

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    Wouldn't it be great if Bliz came out with more "modes" than simply SC, HC? What if they were to incorp ATMA into the actual program and give us "untwinkable", "untwinkable one pass only", "S&E in town only" and all the other options we choose to play with. At the creation screen you would toggle any rules that you wanted to play with and they'd be set for that character. When you create a character with a particular ruleset, it would only be able to interact with characters from that ruleset. The game would be perfect.... absolute perfection.
     
  15. Cattleya

    Cattleya IncGamers Member

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    I just wanted to quote this one, since I really like the point you made here. Sometimes I think it gets lost with all of the playstyles HC players choose.



     
  16. crazy_bear

    crazy_bear IncGamers Member

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    Interesting thread. It's also interesting to see the different replies.

    1) No S&E to avoid death for me. I might hit Esc to have a chance to try and figure out what to do in a desperate situation, but if it's unsavable the char dies. But I don't make my chars go back to town every time I S&E either. If I've cleared an area I see no point to putting up the TP just to quit.

    2) I try to play the game without rerolling. However, now and then I'll get a bad bunch, maybe a stair trap or a bad set of mods that pushes you back into a corner you can't get out of. If I TP out or head out the stairs I won't send a HC char back into a situation I think they have a 95% chance of dying. I try to kill all the monsters I find though, it's rare that I leave one behind.

    3) I rerun areas to improve gear if needed/wanted. Every time you put a HC char into the game there is a risk of dying so you are still risking your char. Bosses are hard to explain storyline wise but for normal areas it's easy to imagine the hordes of hell continually flowing into peaceful areas and having to be rooted out over and over again. If you're going to try and build some decent gear you have to do this or twink. Mind you, I also get bored of rerunning pretty quickly so my rerunning is limited to probably 5-10 runs through any one place before I move on.

    4) I tend to work at the maximum players setting that allows me to enjoy the game (from a speed of advance point of view). Usually players 8 through normal. 8 to 5 in NM then 1 through most/all of hell. I never change settings to pop chests.

    5) I've never really though about TP in the belt. I know people use it but I've never tried it. I'd rather have that extra row of potions. Makes sense to have one maybe at the top of a row of rejuvs maybe, but it's just not for me.
     
  17. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

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    DarkChaos: as I mentioned, lvl99 quest is another story; I admire all of you, who finished it or at least are trying to. It obviously cannot be played the "secure" HC way, unless someone wants to spend a lifetime on it. My SC MF sorc (pure light) retired at mere lvl92. I used to reload, if there were more than ~3 Souls in front of Baal, also S&E-ted and even died once upon a time.

    sirpoopsalot: I play 1.11, but so far I know, the infamous FE bug persists, only its effects had been reduced. It also empowers LE, CE monsters, scarabs and others. I wished it were only the FE bug, though. You can suffer poison and maybe, other types of damage out of nowhere (possibly via auras). The ordinary dolls and gloams are bad enough on their own.

    Many skills are either bugged directly or at least affected in some bad way by another skills. My favorite class, the amazon, has very few "healthy" skills. Playing melee/poison build was probably the greatest disappointment in my D2 career. The bugs really ruin the joy of playing HC, simply because you are forced to play various builds more or less the same way to avoid the "unpredictable".

    Thyiad: I tried to present different views on each sub-topic, and though I usually find myself on the strict side, I don't consider those listed things cheating or cowardliness. With a physical build, one definitely needs at least decent weapon to make it through Hell. I would also try a few runs, if necessary. My only guardian was a very easy one (fire magezon).

    Llathias: I don't suggest it or look down on anybody. I just don't use any of the listed stuff, if I can find a way to get along without it. I eventually did reload the CVT2, once the entrance got swarmed with snakes. My zon almost died trying to hold her grounds there, but failed. Next time, I used the lure/TP trick. And imo, there is at least one build per class capable of going untwinked full-clear-once at P1. My pure-X sorcies tele-rush the XI areas with clear mind.

    Good point with the ATMA, I've forgotten to mention it. Since I never run areas in HC, I also didn't S&E during the act, unless some undeniable real-life issues forced me to. I only muled off some stuff to the prize stash (TWD3 tourney rules) between the acts, and would also mule back on, if allowed/required. I used to leave stuff lying on the crossroad in Tristram back in D1-SP and everything was fine. Why aren't we allowed to buy a bigger stash/rent Warriv's caravan or such? It's pathetic, ATMA's fine with me. I never twinked HC so far, but looting corpses seems wrong to me (the body is lost), to inherit dead character's stash seems acceptable.

    Cat+DC: thanks for explanation of TP-belts. Since I find entering the TP a bigger problem than casting it, I still have little use for it.

    A small addition to player settings:
    The character's level is the decisive factor and measure of its power in almost any RPG and D2 is no exception. The clvl affects both directly and indirectly (via stat- and skill-points) the character's health, mana and chance to hit formula, thus having a big impact on the outcome of battle.

    Consider small 5lvl lead, which is easily achieved with higher PS. For elemental builds, this represents about 108% more damage on slvl10 vs slvl5, about 68% more on slvl15 vs slvl10, and finally about 47% more damage with maxed skill vs slvl15 for some fast-growing spell (fireball). With slower increase (bonespear), this makes 76%, 47% and 42% respectively. Once the primary skill is maxed out, it drops to 0%, provided the skill doesn't have any synergies. But most of them do. Even with the weak ones (like blizzard's), this makes constant 25% more damage until all synergies are maxed. As we can see, the relative advantage decreases at higher levels and will cause a major slow-down for all but strongly overpowered builds. The physical builds get lower benefit for +5 in skills (multishot 0%, strafe 25%, just to name the worst ones), but they can obtain decent advantage via increased primary attribute (another 25%). They also score more hits due to CtH formula, which helps them greatly past normal.

    I admit, that no overleveled char will gain the upper hand in terms of killing speed while dealing with 4.5 times tougher monsters, though I'd bet the sorc could almost be on tie with the multiplicative bonus from the mastery used to her advantage. But almost certainly, any +char will be safer throughout normal and NM, since the monsters do the same poor damage as always, just that they attack our char longer (with significantly lower chance to hit); if they ever make it past our merc (more life, higher defense, damage, resists).

    Another advantage, which cannot be neglected on normal difficulty is, that we have an access to better skills in each particular area, than we were supposed to. So, e.g. we will NOT have Decrepify against Duriel on P1, we will NOT have the Valkyrie or Element Mastery or Fanaticism against Diablo. We will not have any 1pt wonders that soon on P1. I remember having huge trouble fighting Duriel with my lvl21 magezon. The poor merc was struck down almost instantly (again, no decoy). The fight was hopeless, until I realized I had skipped the false tombs. I gained one more level there, for me and my merc, gambled some better polearm for him, and eventually made it. What a difference that one level meant! At clvl24+..

    That's exactly the point. I play ~/p3-/p5 in twinked SC, which allows me to move faster, skipping some areas, while keeping reasonable clvl and fun from the game.

    It definitely works. I just restrain from it in HC, for even with a reckless playstyle, it's almost impossible to RIP a +10lvl char, because the fatal mistakes are usually not fatal enough, once you place additional 50pts in vitality :smiley:
     
  18. Fluffballer

    Fluffballer IncGamers Member

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    You shouldn't have a shortage of decent weapons if you use up all your options. Maximizing MF during the early levels is something people like InsaneWayne have made famous, but don't forget the MANY useful cube recipes. We all know about gambling as well, and a carefully choosen imbue will go a long way. You may not wind up with a "fast" weapon, but runs should never be necessary if you want to forbid yourself from them.


    The chance to hit or miss is relevant, but really, unless your're a twinked pally or iron barb, your defense is probably useless to begin with. Most of my HC chars in hell are weaing rare leather armor or what not. See my guess about levels below as well.

    Also, monsters don't do the same poor damage; P1 monsters get a minus to their damage and P8 get a bonus to their damage. Monsters that stick around at least as long as they would if you were on P1 the whole way PLUS them hitting harder makes the game much riskier. The example I gave before of a stair trap makes this situation extremely dangerous.

    I believe if you do full clears on P1 you remain within a few levels of doing them on P8? You get a large experience penalty for being "too high level". I seem to recall jiansonz saying he arrives in hell at the same level whether on P1 or P8.

    If that's the case, the only place it would matter is very early in the game where you aren't at much risk to begin with.



     
  19. DeathMaster

    DeathMaster IncGamers Member

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    So true, let see how long it might take to reach lvl99 with "secure" way.

    Let's say we need 10000 runs. Each run takes average 30 mins. That's 5000 hours solid play. We all have more or less RL, plus the break time in between. Let's say we play solid 5 hours a day. lvl99 requires 1000 days :shocked: It would take almost 3 years none stop.



     
  20. Ugla

    Ugla IncGamers Member

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    Is it? Do you really find it irrelevant, being hit with 50% probability instead of 30%? I don't :wink3: But you are right, this is not due to higher defense, except for the characters who specialize in it, but due to the relative level difference, which directly affects the chance to hit.

    Truly, by the time you hit Hell, the clvl lead on /p8 vs /p1 can be almost eliminated, but people usually drop down to /p1-3 by then. Could someone, who makes /p8 full-clears, provide us with the numbers for comparison, please? On /p1, the levels are 35 after normal and 67 after NM. The progress through normal is ~14,22,26,29, but unlike the final values, which I had documented, these numbers are just what I recall.

    I never noticed /p8 monsters doing significantly more damage, and still consider the vast majority of normal and NM staff mere dummies. Freezing those, who cause trouble, e.g. door-traps, is quite universal solution, since nothing but few bosses is CI until late NM. You can hire act3 cold-mage for the purpose.

    Even few levels can make a huge difference, and I'd bet, they would be more then just few.

    Ugla
     

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