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HC Fishymancer: Max block vs Max Vita

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by hackedagainanda, May 28, 2017.

  1. hackedagainanda

    hackedagainanda Diabloii.Net Member

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    I'm undecided, between the 2, and also should I invest in bone armor ( and its synergies)?; or would I be better off with Revives/Golems.
     
  2. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    It depends on your shield. If it has a good block % then it might be worth it as necromancers get such a bad life return (2 per vita) that the life lost by opting for block isn't quite as bad as for others characters. On the other hand, you shouldn't be getting hit often, if at all, so it might be better to be sure that you can take the hit, since you shouldn't be getting 'hit' enough for block to be required. Personally, I tend to avoid it untwinked, but I go for it if I have Homonculus, for example.
     
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  3. Zenigma

    Zenigma Diabloii.Net Member

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    I know the numbers on blocking, for the most part, but I often don't see it feasible to give up all that life, but I also mostly play untwinked now. I'm a fan of all vita... Maybe I just don't like being slowed down by block frames. I'm always reminded of that when I start a new character. Hmmm, but I'm also scum and play SC almost exclusively.
    Also as a caster without teleport, I tend to rarely get hot by physical attackers, but with teleport, I imagine one would get hit significantly more by physical attacks.... Decisions, decisions
     
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  4. helvete

    helvete Diabloii.Net Member

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    What can be blocked can also be absorbed by bone armor. Biggest problem is elemental attacks usually, or extremely bad luck teleporting. CtA and all vita is usually the way to go.
     
  5. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    That depends how well you invest in bone armour though. Personally my extra points go into bone wall, but I've so far found myself to be the minority :p
     
  6. helvete

    helvete Diabloii.Net Member

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    Bone wall points benefit bone armor more than points in the actual skill ;)
     
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  7. Tarantella

    Tarantella Diabloii.Net Member

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    In single player a single point in Dim Vision or Atttract or Confusion suffices.
     
  8. Yann

    Yann Diabloii.Net Member

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    I love DV. Actually for a Fishy I put at least 1 pt. in each Curse, they are all either useful or prerequisites.
     
  9. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Yep, that is why my points go into bone wall, which is an investment in bone armour ;)
     
  10. Zenigma

    Zenigma Diabloii.Net Member

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    Interesting with how the introduction of synergies went, they left Bone Armor gaining more per point in other skills than per point invested in BA itself. I don't think any other skill in the game gets an objectively better return on investment from placement in its synergy instead of the skill itself.

    Sure, with double swing and double throw, you get damage from the synergy skills, but on the other hand, you get attack rating from the skill. With dragon claw, you get effectively 8% damage and 10% attack from each point into claw mastery, but you also instead get 5% damage with 15% attack from dclaw itself. For every other skill, it's either a trade-off between synergy and skill or just better to pump the skill. One more I can think of off-hand. Smite gets a % damage boost per point invested, but HS adds more damage per point, if I'm not mistaken. Despite this, you get more stun length per point in smite, and if that's what you want out of the skill, you might be better off investing more in smite than in HS. Often that isn't the case, but for the sake of argument, it isn't objectively better just to place points into HS. But for BA, it's always better to place points into its synergies than the skill itself after you've invested that prerequisite point...
    Also for comparison: Cyclone Armor, the most similar spell to BA gets a % bonus by synergy point, instead of a flat # increase.

    Back on topic. You don't have to invest heavily in golems or revives to get good results. a one point clay golem and golem mastery can work wonders with a few +skills. And one point into revives can be formidable with enough +skills as well, considering you will have already maxed out skeletal mastery. One note on Revives: They disappear if you stray too far away from them, as I recall. Unless you have teleport, you might only be able to hold onto 8-12 at a time before they poof if you run through a large enough area, such as the Chaos Sanctuary. So be mindful how many point you place into it.

    And if you're going to put a point into summon resists, you'll have your one-point wonder golem anyways. Food for thought.
     
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  11. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    Mix it it up with golems too. Clay golem is great for bosses, but I like fire golem personally. Iron golem is great for insight too, meaning you can a sticker sharper pointy thing on your merc.
     
  12. helvete

    helvete Diabloii.Net Member

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    There is no sharper thing, due to the +critical on insight. Be like gripphon, make a beast IG ;)
     
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  13. sanguillen

    sanguillen Diabloii.Net Member

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    +1. Your army is your main shield for physical attacks but I find elemental attacks to be more dangerous, even with maxed resistances. I do have one point in bone armor, boosted by + skills stuff. I play exclusively hardcore, and it's vita all the way for me (except for Zealadins, where I worry about block as well).

    I didn't know about the synergy boost of bone wall with it. That's good to know, and I'll look at using it. And I agree about controlling Revives (tight corners like level 1 of The Pits are unmanageable, as they get "stuck") - I stick with a max of 8, but even then only in certain situations (like level 2 of The Pits).
     
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  14. BKC

    BKC Diabloii.Net Member

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    played HC for a very long time, i always went the vita route. Max Block is just that... if it doesn't block you will be dead. Damage reduction and vita are my friends in HC :) (strictly personal!)
     
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  15. Kitteh

    Kitteh Diabloii.Net Site Pal

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    I always have revive but I rarely actually use it, mostly just for bosses.
     
  16. Zenigma

    Zenigma Diabloii.Net Member

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    @zemaj, however the skill and the synergy have different effects, one makes your mana pool soak up more damage, one makes that process more efficient. I'm talking objectively better. It is always better to put a point in bone wall than in bone armor. It is not strictly better to put a point in tk over a point in es. You could conduct a situation such that a point in es is more beneficial than a point in tk
    Eh: sorc has 500 life and 1000000 mana. Practically speaking, it won't happen, but for the sake of argument, with 1 point in both skills, you'd rather have another point in es before another point in tk
     
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