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HC Demon Hunters in D3v2 and RoS are awesome

Discussion in 'Diablo 3 Hardcore Forum' started by Flux, Mar 1, 2014.

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    I played a lot of DH during the RoS beta, mostly softcore, and loved the changes to the DH and the general game systems. Spiky damage is much lessened, self finding is much easier, there's more ways to heal and boost res and regen, Familiar boar/wolf serves as a very good tank, you can get much higher vit rolls, paragon points add defensive boosts, many DH skills are much buffed to help with survival (Brooding, for instance), and on the whole the class feels much less squishy and is a blast to play.

    We've still got no death cheating passive like the Monk/WD/Wiz, though the head-DH dev, John Yang, said he was open to putting one in when I questioned him about it on a recent RoS live stream. Even without that, the DH feels totally viable now in D3v2. I made a new one this week, zoomed her to 60 without any trouble (and 90% self found, with a HR and some star gems as my only real twinks. I had lots of 20-55 twinks in my stash, but consistently found better gear thanks to the higher stat rolls in Loot 2.0.) and after 2 days she was speed farming Hard or Expert with very little risk of death and wearing all self found gear (just one not-so-awesome crafted DEX amulet, and I'll replace that as soon as I find a decent legendary).

    Things will only improve in RoS, since even if we don't get that death-cheating passive, there are numerous items that provide that effect for the DH. I found a set and a legendary cloak that had a "auto-cast Smoke Screen when you drop below 15% hps, 120s cooldown." I wasn't using them since I was playing Softcore, but that's really all you need from a death cheating passive, and it's not all that hard to find it in item form.

    And if you're wondering about good DH gear/stats in RoS, it's drool-worthy. By the end of the Beta mine was over 1500k DPS, with around 450k hps and 800 res all. That was sufficient to speed farm Torment 1 and I could do pretty well solo up to Torment 3. I had over 8000 dex and was using a legendary bow that fired Elemental Arrow as a hatred generator, so it was just non-stop Lightning Balls filling the screen, with Rapid Fire for boss burn downs. Plus the new DH skill, Vengeance, is spectacular damage boost, super machinegun action, and it provides WotB style immunity to boss CC effects for the duration.

    And you get 4 passives at 70. I went all offensive, especially after I got the leg bow and could take off Blood Vengeance passive since i had plenty of Hatred, but imagine how safe you'll be in HC if you go with 3 defensive passives? The highest level RoS gems add 280 to stat, you can get higher %life from helm socket, you can add regen and res all and life + via paragon points...
     
  2. MikePatton

    MikePatton IncGamers Member

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    Sounds good since the dh has be en the worst class för too long. I love playing it tho.
     
  3. Muggs

    Muggs Clan Officer - US West Hardcore

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    I agree Flux with the beta DH sentiment. I can honestly say I never played a DH all through D3V opting to play all the other classes to max level and a few Paragon levels but honestly after the 1st month or so after release the DH never felt right to me. It was all sheet dps and no mitigation that could be gibbed in an instant. And if you did play them tanky then you did no damage so they never felt in a good place. That being said the last week in beta I was getting bored with the monk grind and figured since I had all this amazing dex gear why not roll a DH and have a go.

    I must say I had a blast not only could I mow through packs like they were nothing I never felt like if I missed a vault or smokescreen I would be a corpse needing sent to the archives. I never pushed into torment with her since I didn't have the time to get better gear but was rolling through master and having a grand old time. A DH will definitely be the 2nd class I roll come ROS.
     
  4. Leblue

    Leblue IncGamers Member

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    I'll second the notion that Demon Hunters feel better than ever right now. I pretty much strictly played Demon Hunter my entire time of playing D3 (first initial weeks and then last May after I came back and went exclusively HC).

    I've never felt like if something sneezed on me I'd fall over. I've played with more skills and changed my build around so much, I could swear this was the first time I was really playing this game (I don't even think I swapped this much when I first started). Legendaries dropping often enough to keep me pushing and going "I'm sure one'll drop soon, I'll keep going until I see one" and then that very satisfying "clang" of one dropping. I'm still hunting for that "bolas explode on contact" quiver that I had on the PTR but until then, I've found quite a few awesome legendaries including a windforce that just dropped for me last night.

    When 2.0.1 dropped I completely cleared out all my twink items and started from scratch (I had just lost a Demon Hunter to a DC two days beforehand) and I've been rocking it from there. Currently starting to farm Torment I and while I don't feel invincible, I also don't feel like a single hit and I'll die. Its enough to where I'm cautious, but not so much that doing anything is tedious.

    I'm currently sitting at 84k unbuffed dps, 911k unbuffed toughness, and I'm almost ready to start attempting bosses once I get a little more dps to insure I don't run into enrage timers. I'm probably being incredibly cautious, but this is also the first time I've ever had a Demon Hunter live past 20 hours at max level and not be dead.

    Not quite Demon Hunter related, but the servers seem to be better than they previously were as well. At least I haven't D/Ced yet which has usually happened to me by now, but my toughness is so high and companions/followers can actually kill things so I actually feel like I might have a fighting chance if I do D/C vs in vanilla if I D/Ced and even the smallest mob on MP0 was near me I was dead no second thoughts on that.

    I could go on and on about how great it feels, how the loot hunt feels, and how a lot of these items are making me enjoy so many facets of the Demon Hunter, but that's why I write about it in a column I suppose :D
     
  5. ShadoutMapes

    ShadoutMapes IncGamers Member

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    Sounds good. From day 1 vanilla DH was the class I wanted to love. The concept of high movability and range. But it has both been too squishy and the game has not really allowed for such hit and run playstyle except for the first few weeks of overtuned Inferno at release.
    Currently lvling a HC demon hunter and I hope it does indeed feel better now.
     
  6. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    That's very bold, but if you enjoy it, go for it. My DH is now 3 days old and has something like 135k dps (without steady aim or the wolf buff) but feels indestructible on hard or expert. 95k hps, 600ish res, and that's without any paragon points to life% or vit and a Ruby in my hat. Chars just get naturally very high vit now from all the gear with 200-400 vit on it, so it's much easier to up your toughness than in the old days. And my DH has only 2 or 3 items I consider keeper quality for end game. Still using rares in 5 or 6 slots, or not great legs or crafted set items in others, that shouldn't be hard to upgrade. (No sock in weapon, for instance.) I'd be way higher on all stats and DPS with a few not-too-hard-to-find upgrades. (I'm doing this char all self found, just because.)

    For farming up in the new game, there's really no benefit to going above Hard, unless/until you can farm Torment. Expert and Master just increase monster hps and danger, while doing almost nothing to boost your item finds (they do increase gold/exp rewards). Most players in the RoS beta stuck to normal or hard (to at least get 75% exp boost) and got way overgeared for it, doing speed runs until they had enough gear to jump right to Torment.

    I'm not sure if that's quite the same in D3v2, since it's not clear if there are Torment-only legs, or much boosted odds of legs in Torment, as was the case in RoS. But unless you want the challenge, there's very little benefit to going up in Diff in d3v2, if it means much slower killing speed. And danger, if you're HC.
     
  7. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    Ran T2 with shoraz's monk and another DH, very comfy!

    When I asked what toughness they had, they said 1.5m , but I was on 50% of that :eek: Upped it a bit towards 900k then, but it was still good. My DPS is 125k, other DH was manticore with 160k and he was facetanking everything. I played a bit more careful, because with my monk in T2 it was very comfy also and then he was gone ;)

    Still running a nightstalker build: perf/brooding/nightstalker and grenades/cluster/wolf/ss/gloom/vault. Gloom blood moon 3300 loh with 2.7 ias, that is better than good old life steal gloom :p
     
  8. Leblue

    Leblue IncGamers Member

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    I'd agree with the danger if I played a more tanky type of build (which some still seem to be trying make work). I've been playing the stutter stepping, "don't get hit" play style I used back when I ran 12k hp, sub 200 resists, and 25k dps back in the original inferno before the very first set of nerfs and its working well for me. That said if I run into a particularly nasty pack (usually involving avenger and fast) I'll back out and live to fight another day. Hoping to see Danetta's Spite drop to go with my Danetta's Revenge and REALLY get going!
     
  9. ShadoutMapes

    ShadoutMapes IncGamers Member

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    So lvled to 60 today, I'm playing pretty much from scratch, no items worth using from other characters. At 1 million EHP after a few hours... crazy patch. Havent found a good weapon yet though, so only at 60k dps.
    Not going anywhere near T1 yet though. How much DPS, toughness and healing would you roughly think is needed to be somewhat safe in T1?
     
  10. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    80k dps 800k toughness should work. I've found about 30 rare bows and none of them came even close to my legacy Calamity.
     
  11. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Rare weapons seem to be really lacking in D3v2. Legs and sets are where it's at for weapons especially. I found a 1330 Windforce not long after I got to 60, which was a slight DPS upgrade over the 1050 Manticore I'd paid 500k for just as a stop gap measure. I've found 2 other leg bows since then, neither an upgrade.

    As for rares though... not even close. I've seen a few rare bows around 1050 dps, but hand xbows are 900 at best. That's true for all rare weapons in Loot 2.0 now; you just suffer through with a rare until you find a good leg, which will give you a huge dps boost.
     
  12. Young

    Young IncGamers Member

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    the best bow's ive seen (all on my friends' DH not mine :() have been 1 hand xbows. The danetta's bows are quite nice, one of them leaves behind a shadow clone when you vault
     
  13. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    Very true, but in 1.08 I've found VERY few good rare weapons also. Doing the MP10 runs yielded thousands of rare items and the ones worth listing in the AH were <1%, so maybe weapons are consistent with 1.08, meaning finding a good one is a needle in a hay stack. There was a reason decent weapons were 100m+ on the AH.
     
  14. Yoo

    Yoo IncGamers Member

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    The best I have found so far is 925 ish dps 1h for a rare. The only thing weird is that the weapons are basically all identical (sort of the same for other rares), so I've started to wonder at picking up any at all.
     
  15. Young

    Young IncGamers Member

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    I don't pick up any rares at all. The only things i pick up are mats, whites, and legendaries. The game has been balanced around level 70, so the 60 rare items you find are going to be complete trash compared to the vanilla 60 legs. The only things that are better are the 60 leg weapons (either vanilla with updated higher stats or the newer ones). That said, many of the updated vanilla weapons and armor are worse than before due to the 4/2 primary secondary system. I found 2 mempos back to back yesterday and they really suck. They no longer have 10-12% max life and the attack speed only rolls 5-6%. I also found a manticore and it sucks too. the CHd is capped to 50% and it can't roll damage and socket.
     
  16. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    They are a needle in a haystack in terms of jewelry and maybe gloves, but weapons the devs just capped the possible rare damage lower than on legs, so there's no luck of the RNG that will get you a rare that's as powerful as a good leg. Much less a great leg. That wasn't the case early in RoS beta, but over time the system evolved and by the last month if was much as you see in D3v2; rares were viable as jewelry and gloves, sometimes close on armor, but well below on weapons.


    Some of the most overpowered classic items (legs and rares) are better than anything you can get in Loot 2.0 for exactly that reason. Hard caps at 4 primary stats on new stuff, even with potentially much higher rolls to the stats, can't beat out lottery quality items from the ago that had 6 primary stats. It's basically why bliz had to ban enchanting of legacy gear. That and much higher ED% on legacy gear made it OP if you uprolled the damage to lvl 70 quality.
     
  17. Young

    Young IncGamers Member

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    really not liking the 4/2 system. It would be justified if the secondary stats were useful in the slightest bit. Even previously useful things like pick up radius have been nerfed to 1-2 yards instead of 7. Although, it hardly matters because gold stacks are trivial (500 gold? seriously?) and health globes rarely drop anymore.

    5/1 would be far better. Why did they arbitrarily create this 4/2 mod structure anyway?
     
  18. Grishok

    Grishok IncGamers Member

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    Shame about rare weapons then :(

    I don't like the secondary affixes at all, they should have put some more meaningful ones in there. As it is, I look at the 4 prim rolls only, except maybe for OWE monk.
     
  19. HardRock

    HardRock IncGamers Member

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    In HC, at the very least you should look out for CC reduction. Makes Jailer and Frozen Elites much less dangerous.

    I don't think secondary stats are meaningless at all, they are just... secondary. Depending on your item and skill build Thorns and the Globe bonus can be pretty nice actually (the latter primarily for the Barb). A larger resource pool is always nice. The AH really hurts the GF bonus though. In the expansion your only source of income will be the gold on the ground, so I fully expect GF to become a more coveted stat, unless you already have billions of gold. Then again, at that point no amount GF will be helpful for you, although crafting and enchanting costs on the high-end can be really high at level 70, like 10m per Set item high.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2014
  20. Young

    Young IncGamers Member

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    But does every item need 2 secondary stats? When before we had items with 6 primary?
     

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