HC Conc Barb weapon dilemma

DudSpud

Diabloii.Net Member
HC Conc Barb weapon dilemma

The situation: I have a lvl 65 HC SP (duh) Conc Barb with 20 BO, Conc, Shout and 1 pt wonders (BC, LA, Taunt, Bes, FP, NR) and 2 saved skills, looking to max mastery next.

Gear:
Lore Slayer Guard +2 NR, +3 BO
Sigon's Gloves
Sigon's Boots (Combo mainly for the 30 IAS and 10% LL)
Lionheart Dusk
Raven/Manald (best mana leach ring @ 7%)
Saracen's Ammy
SoE
pD Whistan's
Switch - 2x Resonant Javs

Might Merc with Hone Sundan (Amn, Shael, %ED-Req Jewel), Stealskull, 2xpRub eth Spirit Forge

Main weapon - Fleshrender

Actually, I have been very happy with the Fleshrender so far, with its 20 cb/20 ds/25 ow, good speed and PMH. But I am not a Druid so I feel kinda stupid using it as the +2 SS/+1 all druid skills mods are wasted on Uli. I have just started A5 NM, and at lvl 65 I am ready I am able to use my single pul to up one of the following three weapons to elite. These are really my only choices at the moment, though I have the eth Bes axe, but no Mal, for Oath.

Weapon - avg damage when upped (includes Might, DS chance, and 100% DS for HS)-base FPA:

Butchers Pupil - 1866 - 12
Headstriker - 2390 - 13
Fleshrender - 1620 - 13

OK - so the question is, which do I spend my precious Pul to up. Obviously, the HS is the leader in damge, but this is really only because it has +1.5% DS/lvl, which is already maxed at this point - as weapon mastery starts increase, the others catch up. With slvl 20 mastery, the avg damage becomes...2538/ 2390/ 2319 for the weapons.

With the CS from mastery factored in, BP takes the lead. However, FR has 20% cb on weapon, which makes a huge difference, especially at higher /p lvls. I could drop the dual Sigon's for Goblin Toe (25% cb) and my best blood glove craft so far:

Skull Fist
Sharkskin Gloves
Defense: 36
Durability: 14 of 14
Required Strength: 20
Required Level: 43
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 58
Fingerprint: 0xd9076849
+19 to Life
3% Life stolen per hit
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items
10% Increased Attack Speed
8% Chance of Crushing Blow
Level 2 Weaken (25/25 Charges)

The Gtoe/craft glove combo gives me 35/35/55 cb, respectively (and this is the only twinkable cb gear I have at the moment). True, I could MF for Goreriders or Guillaume's (NM Meph for both?), but that is something that I don't think would be "fun" (though I do have a Guardian Hammerdin that could do it more quickly than Uli...). What other cb gear am I forgetting? And yes, I know that cb doesn't scale with the /p setting, but I am likely (ie must) /p1,3, or 5 through Hell.

So, after this long-winded introduction - What would you do (note - with most gear combinations the FPA is within a frame, so essentially it is not a factor in the decision)? My preference is for the FR, given that its damage is similar and it has cb and OW (also on BP, good for 200 or so damage/sec, which helps) and PMH (which HS but not BP also has)

Thanks,
DudSpud
 

Kefir-Tribe

Diabloii.Net Member
Spontaneously I would say Butcher's Pupil. But according the weapon speed calculator it seems that it would be a little slower then the other two when upgraded, which makes me doubt.

Looking at the damage you've listed it seems that the axe has a pretty bad roll too. What're the stats of the weapons? And what're the stats of the character (str, dex..)?

Do you think it would be a too big trade-off to change SoF for Sigon's belt (to keep the partial set bonus) and change the boots for Goblin Toe?

Is this untwinked? If it isn't what other notable items do you have access to (I'm thinking ias-gloves mostly)?
 

DudSpud

Diabloii.Net Member
Kefir-Tribe said:
Spontaneously I would say Butcher's Pupil. But according the weapon speed calculator it seems that it would be a little slower then the other two when upgraded, which makes me doubt.
The BP has 30 IAS mod, which brings it in line with the other two.
Kefir-Tribe said:
Looking at the damage you've listed it seems that the axe has a pretty bad roll too. What're the stats of the weapons? And what're the stats of the character (str, dex..)?
As for the character, in gear, with Lion heart (25 str, 15 dex - though I do have a Rattlecage....), Raven (18 dex - a keeper, I think ), Saracen's (12 all stat, also a likely keeper though I do have a Cat's Eye), 4x +5 str charms, hard stat points, and 60 stat points to spare:

Str - 133
Dex - 125
Vit - 146
Enr - 42
with BO, HP=2633, Mana= 286 (I might be missing some +stat items)

Here are the un-upped weapons:

Butcher's Pupil
Cleaver
One-Hand Damage: 56 to 137
Required Strength: 68
Required Level: 39
Axe Class - Fast Attack Speed
Indestructible
Unidentified
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 55
Fingerprint: 0x56a12d36
+166% Enhanced Damage
+30 to Minimum Damage
+50 to Maximum Damage
30% Increased Attack Speed
25% Chance of Open Wounds
35% Deadly Strike
Indestructible

Headstriker
Battle Sword
One-Hand Damage: 40 to 85
Durability: 31 of 32
Required Dexterity: 43
Required Strength: 92
Required Level: 39
Sword Class - Normal Attack Speed
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 67
Fingerprint: 0xb5818eb1
+15 to Strength
+150% Enhanced Damage
Prevent Monster Heal
+1 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
1% Deadly Strike (Based on Character Level

Fleshrender
Barbed Club
One-Hand Damage: 70 to 119
Durability: 22 of 56
Required Strength: 30
Required Level: 38
Mace Class - Normal Attack Speed
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x6288f3ee
+176% Enhanced Damage
+35 to Minimum Damage
+50 to Maximum Damage
+20 Maximum Durability
+1 to Druid Skill Levels
Prevent Monster Heal
150% Damage to Undead
25% Chance of Open Wounds
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
20% Deadly Strike
+2 to Shape-Shifting Skills (Druid Only)

Kefir-Tribe said:
Do you think it would be a too big trade-off to change SoF for Sigon's belt (to keep the partial set bonus) and change the boots for Goblin Toe?
This is an intersting option that I had not considered. I thought the SoE was a keeper beause of the %PDR, MDR, LL (especially in Hell), and higher Def (boosted with Shout). Still, my ultimate Def is likely to not make much of a difference in final CtbH even with Shout (maxed both for Def, Merc Def, and synegy to Beserk for IM areas), given my poor armor choices. So this is a good idea as it allows me to keep the LL up and with 2.6K+ HP, I should be able to withstand two strong hits. I'll give it a try in A1 Hell to see how well I leech/avoid getting hit.

Kefir-Tribe said:
Is this untwinked? If it isn't what other notable items do you have access to (I'm thinking ias-gloves mostly)?
No, Uli is twinked, and I included the best items I have. I have only recently switched to HC, so I am a little poor. Still, the FR and Pul were found by Uli himself, which may be why I am leaning that directions.

Thanks,
DudSpud
 

DudSpud

Diabloii.Net Member
Kefir-Tribe said:
Spontaneously I would say Butcher's Pupil. But according the weapon speed calculator it seems that it would be a little slower then the other two when upgraded, which makes me doubt.
The BP has 30 IAS mod, which brings it in line with the other two.
Kefir-Tribe said:
Looking at the damage you've listed it seems that the axe has a pretty bad roll too. What're the stats of the weapons? And what're the stats of the character (str, dex..)?
As for the character, in gear, with Lion heart (25 str, 15 dex - though I do have a Rattlecage....), Raven (18 dex - a keeper, I think ), Saracen's (12 all stat, also a likely keeper though I do have a Cat's Eye), 4x +5 str charms, hard stat points, and 60 stat points to spare:

Str - 133
Dex - 125
Vit - 146
Enr - 42
with BO, HP=2633, Mana= 286 (I might be missing some +stat items)

Here are the un-upped weapons:

Butcher's Pupil
Cleaver
One-Hand Damage: 56 to 137
Required Strength: 68
Required Level: 39
Axe Class - Fast Attack Speed
Indestructible
Unidentified
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 55
Fingerprint: 0x56a12d36
+166% Enhanced Damage
+30 to Minimum Damage
+50 to Maximum Damage
30% Increased Attack Speed
25% Chance of Open Wounds
35% Deadly Strike
Indestructible

Headstriker
Battle Sword
One-Hand Damage: 40 to 85
Durability: 31 of 32
Required Dexterity: 43
Required Strength: 92
Required Level: 39
Sword Class - Normal Attack Speed
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 67
Fingerprint: 0xb5818eb1
+15 to Strength
+150% Enhanced Damage
Prevent Monster Heal
+1 to Maximum Damage (Based on Character Level)
1% Deadly Strike (Based on Character Level

Fleshrender
Barbed Club
One-Hand Damage: 70 to 119
Durability: 22 of 56
Required Strength: 30
Required Level: 38
Mace Class - Normal Attack Speed
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 49
Fingerprint: 0x6288f3ee
+176% Enhanced Damage
+35 to Minimum Damage
+50 to Maximum Damage
+20 Maximum Durability
+1 to Druid Skill Levels
Prevent Monster Heal
150% Damage to Undead
25% Chance of Open Wounds
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
20% Deadly Strike
+2 to Shape-Shifting Skills (Druid Only)

Kefir-Tribe said:
Do you think it would be a too big trade-off to change SoF for Sigon's belt (to keep the partial set bonus) and change the boots for Goblin Toe?
This is an intersting option that I had not considered. I thought the SoE was a keeper beause of the %PDR, MDR, LL (especially in Hell), and higher Def (boosted with Shout). Still, my ultimate Def is likely to not make much of a difference in final CtbH even with Shout (maxed both for Def, Merc Def, and synegy to Beserk for IM areas), given my poor armor choices. So this is a good idea as it allows me to keep the LL up and with 2.6K+ HP, I should be able to withstand two strong hits. I'll give it a try in A1 Hell to see how well I leech/avoid getting hit.

Kefir-Tribe said:
Is this untwinked? If it isn't what other notable items do you have access to (I'm thinking ias-gloves mostly)?
No, Uli is twinked, and I included the best items I have. I have only recently switched to HC, so I am a little poor. Still, the FR and Pul were found by Uli himself, which may be why I am leaning that directions.

Thanks,
DudSpud
 

lachen

Diabloii.Net Member
Howdy, my short and possibly incorrect damage calculations say the Headstriker comes out on top.

assuming 20 Conc/BO/Mastery and some random Might aura:

Butcher's: 2187 avg - 48%ish chance of DS
Headstriker: 2545 avg - 100% chance of DS
Fleshrender: 1971 avg - 36%ish chance of DS

the numbers are assuming 100% DS on all the weapons. I could've miscalculated somewhere but I'm pretty sure Headstriker wins out.

If the Butcher's had a higher ED then I might be whistling a different tune, but given the weapon rolls and chance of DS, I'd go with Headstriker. If you still want the CB you can use the Goblin/crafted blood gloves.

Hope this helped somewhat, I tend to type jumbly so I never know if anyone can understand me or not.
 

Kefir-Tribe

Diabloii.Net Member
I've done some calculations and I'm quite surprised. With that roll on the on the Pupil and with no additional source of DS it seems that Head Striker will be your best bet. Put a Sheal in it and you'll get to the 12 fpa bp with 10% additional IAS (i.e. your current blood gloves).

In this case I suggest keeping SoE and chance the boots for Goblin Toe.

You should do the calcs yourself too, I might have screwed something up.

edit: Seems like I'm not the only one who've came to that conclusion.

edit2: With the significant dexterity investment already done and it being HC, I would not go two-handed. Some monsters ignore defense too.
 

Llathias

Banned
If you can get your hands on a Ribcracker (and upgrade it), you won't ever have to think about your weapon again. The fast attack, huge dmg and the defense bonus complement your build perfectly, and you'll have the almighty 50% CB as a bonus!

You might be hesitant about dropping your shield, but for a high defense character like a conc barb, you don't get as much benefit from a shield (except against ITD monsters). If you can lower successful enemy hits to 20% by defense, even max block will have an 15% effect in the end. Huge dmg from a 2-hander also gets rid of monsters faster, and gives them less time to attack you. Also, don't forget about War Cry. It can be very useful at times.

IIRC, DeathMaster had a Ribcracker using HC Conc barb. He might come here shortly and give you better advice.
 

DeathMaster

Diabloii.Net Member
Llathias said:
IIRC, DeathMaster had a Ribcracker using HC Conc barb. He might come here shortly and give you better advice.
Yes I do. But I have not guardianed him yet. So far as I can say, your def will be in somewhere around 16 or 17k with ribby. Which helps a bit.

Killing speed would be ok (mine has avg around 4k displayed damage with might merc).

Only weakness of ribby is its range. but I didn't feel it is a problem.

In conclusion, I highly recommend upped ribby: low req, all useful mods, great speed (I shael it to hit the next BP).
 

atigdng

Diabloii.Net Member
I don't think it looks like he is going for 2 handed and with only some gear, shield and one hand would be good.

HS is a good option, honestly overall it probably is better besides being slightly slower. You won't see much deference in killing speed though.

You really need to switch out your sigons for something, anything else really. I would look to try and improve the defense of your armor too.
 
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