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Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er. i

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by zarfen, Apr 18, 2008.

  1. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    So I'm back with more ranting about sorceress builds.

    I recently made a fo/nova sorc for fun and to run lk, she is level 45 and going strong.
    But recently I've had the itch to do some mroe 'traditional' mf'ing, between lk running, pvp levelling and haxing in 1.07, I've started to miss running lvl 85 areas and act bosses, looking for green and gold :laugh:

    So after taking more or less the whole day to browse around the forums and all kind of guides, I've decided to make another thread :grin:

    Here's the goals I set for myself before I started hunting for a build:
    -Must be an effective runner. <-Otherwise I could just stick with fooling around with my nova/fo sorc, or just take my summoner druid to the pits.

    -Versiality, must be able to mf in all or most common areas. <- nothing kills the fun for me as repeativeness, I don't want to build another character specialized for mephisto or pindle, I want something that can run everywhere (well, I'll settle for almost :wink:) in the game without too much trouble. This makes for a character with multiple scources of damage.

    -Well point 1 and 2 pretty much sums it up, I want a effective runner that can tackle all or most areas/bosses in the game.

    My thoughs this far:
    Sorceressess: Teleport FTW, makes all running sooo much easier. There's only a few specific build I would even compare with unless they run enigma.
    I've used most of the cookie cutter sorceress skills and builds, which kinda sucks, since it's fun to experiment with something new, anyway I asked for a cookie cutter, so:

    Blizzballer: Meet's the requirements, but I'm actually finding blizzard to be a bit inaccurate and it also has a remarkable casting delay and fireball has never impressed me much. VS bosses nothing ever shined as my pure blizzer, but against mass mobs I find it irritating when they run trough my blizzard field without getting hit. Popular baal build and blizzard (although not with the power of a pure blizzy) is a great all around boss killer.

    CL/FO: I used FO and I used CL, but never on the same build. On my pure lightning sorc I used lightning over CL 80% of the time, it might just be me but I find CL to do kinda measly damage, so I'd probably be a Lightning/fo sorc instead :tongue:. FO is probably the best and most point investment worthwhile back up skill in the game, but I'm not sure about the combination. I'd like to hear some opinions from someone who tried this and compared to the other popular sorcs.

    Meteorb: Here we are again. I still don't want to do this. 2 timered spells is bleh for killing speed in areas, and I would take blizzbalelr over this any day unless I'd be untwinked.

    Pure cold/pure light: Love them both, but as I said I want to run alot of areas as well. Pure fire is just a joke for pvm.

    Non-Sorcs:
    Trapper: No, I just don't want to =) I have a trapper that I intend to go all out lightning with, and that's not very nice for mf'ing.

    Hammerdin: Can kill everything all right, but I don't like hammerdins, I don't even lika paladins at all.
    Has some pros on his side though, high unresistable damage, great aoe, good survability and he can smite with a cb weapon to bring bosses down fast.

    Javazon: This is my gal. Really like this build. I'd be forced to make a hybrid, and I would most likely go for the psn/lf one rather than lf/fa, so that would be kidna slow and make gloams a problem.
    Even if I did go fa/lf I fear she might have just too much problems with getting to the actual mf target, be it a boss or an area.

    Druids: Windy could work, but no thanks.

    Necro: Nope

    Barbarian: *giggle* no thanks. Seriously; I hear some people use frenzy barbs for mfing, but I've never really lookied into it or played much barbs. I had a ww ik barb that I didnt like, I would never call him an effective mf'er.

    I'm actually more confused now than before I strated the thread.
    I'd be twinked to the teeth, going harly/hoto/spirit/3xtals/fcr gloves/fcr rings/*boots*(most likely wt's) for a sorc, and adjusting to appropriate gear for the rest. ATM I'm most set on blizzballer or frozenlighter, but suggestions are welcome

    Any opinions or thoughs are welcome.


    BTW
    -_-
     
  2. stephan

    stephan IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    A Meteorb does not just have two timered spells. It has a better Fireball than Blizzballers.

    Meteorbs do not excel at Baal running though.
     
  3. Skinnyy

    Skinnyy IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    I didn't see LF/Strafer (with max charged strike for bosses) on your list. Great for pits, cows, baal runs. The only problem with her really is keeping her resists up on the bow switch (unless you go with WWS). Also doesn't carry the most mf, but you should still be able to reach 200 without too many problems (especially now that we know that a 9/3 strafe is the fastest breakpoint). Also pretty customizable. Check out the Gunslinger guide in the amazon strategy forum.
     
  4. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    You should do a search for someones (can't remember whos, and I'm lazy when drinking) Freezing Arrow / Lightning Fury WSK runner. Note that that is WSK, not Baal himself. IIRC the build used one of the 1.09 bow runewords (the one with +3 bow skills) in a mat bow with inherent +3 bow skills for +6 FA and titans/whatever on switch. Real cheap like, and sounded like a great deal of fun. The key thing was that both bow and java skillers were useful, as were +ama skills, and running both cold and ligthing damage (very effective with good piercing) you can kill anything not LI/CI very fast at p1 setting (which doesn't affect bosses anyway) and the few LI/CI are taken care of by merc (and possibly valk, can't remember if the build used valk).

    At any rate, lvl 30 FA and LF kills most stuff in hell at p1 even with low synergies (the LF synergies are a joke anyway) and max CS and you can take on even baal with ease and quickness.

    (I've never built one myself, but someday when I'm bored I will).
     
  5. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    @stephan: Still don't want a meteorb :tongue:

    @helvete: Nightfish? :rolleyes:

    -----

    LF hybrids seem pretty solid for all around play, I might attempt a lf/bow zon, lightning/cold immunes aren't very common and I do liek amazons. Still concerned about getting to the targets, let's say I feel like running mephisto, I'd have to roll the map until I get the wp real close to durance 3, and then I still have to kill the few monsters on the way.
    And maybe, if I wanna run something that's not so close to a wp I could use harmony instead of melody if I use FA, less +skills but vigor aura = gg
    The pros of FA opposed to strafe (although I love the gunsligner guide, awsome art work :grin:) is that both your attacks benefit from +skills (and +skills often comes with mf as well) while I really dislike to try and combine caster and psychical into 1 char, I'm still having lot's of problems planning my pois/plaguejava/bowazon

    Giving it some more though for now. :undecided:
     
  6. Liquid_Evil

    Liquid_Evil IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    zarf sure loves him some smilies.

    Seriously though, I would try to build a *good* Mf'er and forsake your usual quality of characters. :wink3: Good luck!
     
  7. nilynrae

    nilynrae IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    I've built a FA/LF zon based on Nightfish's guide and I'm quite pleased with it since she can go more or less anywhere without too much trouble. Probably not the fastest in some areas but certainly has the versatility. :smiley:

    I'm often tempted to try a tri-elementalist sorc but since I haven't as yet, I don't know how viable they are for MFing/general area & boss running but I imagine they shouldn't have too many problems?? Though you might be juggling skills points, resists and MF.

    I tend to avoid hammerdins as well.. and paladins in general really. Not sure why since I know they work pretty well universally...
     
  8. Espr

    Espr IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    I'm enjoying my LF/FA zon, and it's my lvl85 area runner choice. I'm not overly familiar with the poison javelin skills, so I can't comment on how viable that alternative would be (though resists would be a lot easier).

    I'm not finding her too bad for andy/meph, depending on the map, but I would consider making a sorc for specific targets, as it is a great deal faster at 105+ FCR. However, if you like to hit convenient uniques or chests along the way to the boss, I don't think you'll find a teleport-less char all that disappointing. It's not hard to get a decent amout of FRW on a fishyzon. Titan's has 30%, a decent rare or wartravs can get you 20-40% on boots, and if you opt for a gambled circlet (over a shako, kiras, or griffon's) you could add another 20.

    Once you're actually at the boss, a fishyzon does quite well. CS just chews through bosses, even with only one synergy. And when you're doing boss runs (rather than area clears) you could swap in some CB for your merc to speed things along further.

    With 50 FRW I find my zon can get to a boss nearly as fast as my sorc, provided the map has a direct route to the stairs (ie, where teleport isn't providing any shortcuts through walls and such), but I don't max/min my run times or fuss about them too much. Ohe isn't the fastest teleporter, though.

    It sounded as though you have a blizzsorc, though, and you'd be hard pressed to beat that for single-target runs with an all-rounded char. However, if you don't mind using her for single-targets much of the time, I think you'd be pleased with a LF/FA zon as an area runner (provided, of course, that you like the skills). LF/Strafe would probably open up a couple more areas (notably, The Pits), but gear is a bit trickier for that one.
     
  9. maxgerin

    maxgerin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    I think the only char that is fit for the job, whatever way you see it, is a sorc.
    So I'll comment on them more.

    (1) MeteOrber: My first MF sorc. Well rounded. No problem with the delay, at least not that much. Main killer in higher levels is FB. If critter is FI, then FO. I use this build to run Pindle and gained most of my grail through it. However, I don't find it to be very versatile, as others claim. I can't run Pit/AT with it, too slow. I can't seem to do effective WSK/Baal with it. Meph...didn't bother. So Pindle is the main goal here. I'm sure there are those who can run all the areas effectively with this build, but I'm not one of them.

    (2) BlizzSorc: Powerful. Unless you're facing CI's. Good AT/Meph/Pindle runner. I found this build to be a decent WSK/Baal runner, as long as you can equip your merc well. And if you can help it, just tele past those CI's. (But I think those Succubus type are CI's, and they spawn in WSK alot)

    (3) BlizzBaller: Another well rounded char. High powered Blizz, at least enough to kill relatively fast. A good bet to MF alot of targets: Pits/AT/Meph/Pindle/WSK-Baal. Not really that fast, but very workable.

    (4) Pure Fire: I have one. Was planning on running Andy with it for some jewelries before the HF bug caught me. Can do Pindle well, I think that's it. Moving on...

    (5) FO/CL: I HATE MINE! I even like my Fire Sorc better. Not that it isn't versatile, but FO is not that strong because if you max it with synergy Lightning won't amount to anything. And because you have to skimp on the Lightning for FO, it does far less damage than the optimum. If you'll run at /p1, this might work.

    (6) FrozenOrber: I doubt it would be better than a MeteOrber. I like mine, but just for the novelty. It's a good Pindle runner, but only to that extent, imo.

    (7) Pure Lightning: Now we're talkin'. You sure can't run all the areas with it like a Fire/Cold sorc, but the sheer power will compensate well. General targets: AT/Meph/Pindle/WSK-Baal. I find it to be my fastest WSK-Baal runner, and my most clvl-99 viable build. (That's why I'm HFrushing: to make an "Infinity" for this.)

    Wow, I just realized how many Sorcs I have... :grin:


    Some will argue other chars are better, and I'm sure that they'll be right about it too.
    As long as one player can prove how a fast/versatile a build can go, s/he will also be right about it.
    However, sorc is the general choice that's why it's very popular, and thus well discussed.


    BTW, Necro are well-rounded runners, too.
    And I'm not talking about the strict SummonMancer-type.
    PoisonSummoners are very good area runners, and Pindle too.
    I leveled mine through Pindle runs (now clvl90), but I can run WSK-Baal with it.
    It's slow with Baal, but it's not a scary thought.
    You might want to consider it.
    Just a little bit expensive though for the DW to make the runs faster, and Bramble if you can help it.


    Those are my thoughts. I hope you find one that suits you well. :smiley:


    --maxgerin
     
  10. Head Jumper

    Head Jumper IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    Cmon, fishymancer ftw :jig:
    I dunno why you people don't like hammerdins.. I find it interesting to play with him.. Maybe 'cause before coming online i didn't know that that's considered a *cheesy* build, but, still, i find it interesting to play with him.. Ofc he lacks tele [unless you have an enigma :wink2:], i even got myself nai's staff, but he's a perfect mf'er... Especially for 87'ers, if you want to do full clearouts..
    My votes go to:
    - hammerdin
    -fishymancer
    -nightfish's LF/FA zon, as mentioned above (she's realy a cookie-cutter herself, and still interesting-to-play build..)

    About the sorc, i think you've tried every possible combination of it :smiley:
    I can still remember you searching for those light skillers, and gryphon's :)
    I've tried tri-skiller myself, it doesn't do the job.. Eventualy, what comes to my mind right now is maybe combination of FB/CL, or smtng like that, with the HF merc to slow things down, + his physical dmg for those nasty F/L immunes.. Anyway, GL with your build, whichever you choose! :thumbsup:
     
  11. Darkoooo

    Darkoooo IncGamers Member

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    Didn't bother to read your whole post, sorry:hide:

    I'm almost sure you said somewhere you don't want to make a Blizz sorc. In that case... make a Blizz sorc. You can run Pindle, you can run Mephisto, you can run Ancient Tunnels. What more do you need? And you can never have too many of them, one for Mephy, one for AT, one for pvp... She's the best MFer there is, sure hammerdin can beat her in versatility (if he has enigma, if he doesn't then he's just too slow) but she's very fast and can pack lots of MF.
     
  12. pharaoh

    pharaoh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    Charged Boltress ftw!

    I have to say that this is one of the most fun builds I've ever tried, and she's quite versatile. Max Charged Bolt, max Lightning Mastery, max Lightning, and pick a backup attack. Charged Bolt rips through anything not LI, and your backup takes down any LI as long as it's not also immune to your secondary attack.

    I went with CB/Fireball, because I hit the 200% breakpoint. My CB averages 373 damage per bolt (of which there are 24), and my FBall averages a little under 3k. I opted for FBall over, say, Frozen Orb because it lets me take advantage of my FCR. If you're not going for the 200% FCR breakpoint, the next lower one is 105%, which is pretty easy to reach, and will free up some gear choices for more +skills and/or MF.

    A big benefit to having huge FCR is you're nigh untouchable while Teleporting, and you can also pull your merc out of trouble most of the time. It's rare I lose my merc to Iron Maiden when doing Baal runs, because I can simply pull him back, toss spells, then pull him back again when he gets close to the monsters. Rare LI/FI bosses get the usual TK stunlock treatment, and (as they cannot be PI as well), go down in short order.
     
  13. BobTheWarrior

    BobTheWarrior IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    If you're looking for diversity to avoid boredom, why do you only want to use one character? :hide:

    Seriously, though. If you want efficient mf'ing, having 2 -3 characters is probably a good thing. Equip each one to maximize the areas they're built for and have at it. You have plenty of gear, so I don't know what could be the problem...

    If blizzard frustrates you and chain lightning doesn't seem strong enough, I don't know if you'll ever be happy with a single sorc mf'er. Sounds like you've tried them and the best ones just don't work for you.

    Give a java/strafer a try. I'm building one myself at the moment, only starting NM so I can't say how efficient they are, but I read that Kijya's runs the Chaos Sanctuary on bnet in 8-player games fairly well, so I would think they can do just about any area reasonably well.

    Pharaoh's CB/FB sorc sounds interesting @ 200 fcr. *adds character to build list*

    BTW, you don't need a perfect map for a non-teleport character. Teleport charges do spawn on amulets and circlets, and if you're only going over a wall or two on the way, it won't take that much to pick up an item or two to sell at the merchant to recharge it before your next run.

    Finally, I just want to say that a CL/FO sorc is a pretty versatile build, I've run one on bnet and am building one in SP (at 'beer' speed) and am getting kinda anxious to get her up to speed.

    Good luck with your search, but unless you go with an enigmadin, I don't think you're going to find the build you're looking for.
     
  14. zarfen

    zarfen IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    Meh, the ugly face of the truth, "you can't have it all (unless you hax an enigma)" as they say.

    So yeah, after insight on both fun/versitile builds(amazons) and powerful effective builds(sorcs) and darkoooo's "I know you don't want another blizz sorc, so make one." mastery convinciong tactics, it looks like I am making another blizzsorc. Don't get me wrong, I never disliked those ladies, it's just that (darkoooo pointed this out to me as well :grin:) they are the best on what they are good on, I just don't like blizzard for general running around and being funky.
    So a blizzy it is.

    I'm also making a lf amazon, or 2 actually.
    I have no idea why I was so set on having 1 to do it all really, jsut felt liek a good idea :tongue:
     
  15. pharaoh

    pharaoh IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    While I'd love to take credit, it was actually Crazy Runner Guy's build in the build stickies. I just tweaked it a bit; to my knowledge, he wrote the guide before v1.11 and RWM, so Spirit shields weren't an option. I also went for FBall over FOrb as explained in my previous post, since I felt I may as well take advantage of the insane FCR. Really, I didn't popularize the build. I just found it quite fun.
     
  16. lukin

    lukin IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    I have a PS/DS hybrid that can run anywhere and the kill speed is great. Only problem is no teleport. I used Orphan's call set on her for fun, but I imagine if I went back and tried to twink with other more powerful stuff (like especially Nat's set and Bartucs or Firelizards) she could be even more powerful and still fit like 300% MF depending on the charms you have
     
  17. RibGriller

    RibGriller IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    Why not build more than one MFer. Here's my runners:

    1) Blizz -- Cows/AT/Pindle
    2) Frenzier -- Pits
    3) Different Blizz -- LK
    4) Nova/FB -- Countess
    5) Lightsorc, k/t sin -- Pindle
    6) Blizz/CL, Lightsorc, Hdin, k/t sin, Avenger, Zealot, LF zon -- WSK/Baal

    That kind of variety keeps me from getting bored with one MFer or the other. Just an idea for ya.
     
  18. NeoKnuckles

    NeoKnuckles IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    I've built a cl/orber and a blizzballer, both using similar equipment (tal's full set). My cl/orber is only L76, but so far, I'm finding blizz baller to be far better for killing baal's minions, but I like cl/orbers for almost everything else. I notice that there are far more powerful cold immunes than there are powerful lit immunes, and a weak-ish backup skill doesn't hurt clorbers that much. Other than the council and the act 3 maulers, I can't think of a single LI that is tough to kill.

    I find clorbers slightly better area runners (particularly the pits, I hate fighting fallen shaman with only blizz, yet lightning owns them really hard). blizz ballers MIGHT be better at AT, since they're just nerfed blizz sorcs with a non-merc way to kill CI bosses, though honestly, orb deals with the lightning skeletons just fine. They're both great for andy running, though I like clorbers a bit more for that. For wsk running, they're about equal. I like clorbers for WSK, and I like blizz ballers for minions.

    If you're sick with blizz, try your hand at a clorber. They are very strong and can run a variety of things. My clorber's merc dies very fast to minions, so I can't do wsk as well as my blizz baller, but I'm going to give her 10 or so levels before I make a clear judgment on that.

    I couldn't disagree with you more on this. I find blizz to be terribly inaccurate against bosses, and it rapes mobs like nothing. If you have 10 guys standing under blizz, the likelihood of your a shard whiffing is much lower than if you're targetting only 1 guy.

    You have 2 timered spells, only 1 that you'll use with regularity, and you have one very very powerful non-timered spell. Don't let the name meteorber fool you. meteorbers use fireball as their main and orb as their backup, and meteor for special situations. Personally, I would take a clorber over meteorbers any day, as I feel lightning is a nicer skill than fireball

    If you want to try a non-sorc build (for area running, sorcs are almost always the best if you're going for boss targets, maybe except for javazons for pindle), try a trap assassin. Death sentry is such a great skill



     
  19. Darkoooo

    Darkoooo IncGamers Member

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    I never had problems with my Blizzard hitting Bosses (Mephisto). They are bigger than regular monsters, and because of that they often get hit by multiple shards, Mephisto is only a problem when he stands near the stairs and that wall. I like to lure him out on that circle in the open, there he dies within seconds.



     
  20. sirpoopsalot

    sirpoopsalot IncGamers Member

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    Re: Having serious troubles deciding build for my new mf'er.

    You spelled it wrong. It's Blizzwaller. :tongue:

    Much better damage in the cold tree (which you should use as a primary), and a solid backup. Style points. And because both your attacks are strong and aren't mana-hogs, you'll have reasonable opportunity for versatile equipment (read: MF).

    Also, having used firewall a few times in-game, I'd personally spend ~10 hard points in FM to balance your killspeed a little (even if you have +10~ skills). Otherwise you'll slow down enough against CI monsters that you'll be wondering why you didn't just build a Blizzsorc. Blizzard will still be plenty strong with ~30 in the fire tree, and a higher-damage Firewall actually does decent against bosses (not top-end like a few skills, but definitely solid).



     

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