Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism's Orb-it-aller

Socialism

Diabloii.Net Member
Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism's "Orb-it-aller"

Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orbitaller”

Justification

Dual-tree builds keep you self-sufficient and efficient (if you read the Hardcore forum… you’d know I’m all about efficiency/aggressive playstyles …and that I’m Awesome [note: that was my hyper aggressive sorceress'ssss'ss's'ss's name]). Meteor’s great, but too slow for me. I’ll prune the 4 skill points.

The only cold/fire immunes you'll encounter are random (very, very rare) dual enchantment + innate resistance/immunity spawns.

This reads more like a 'review' than a 'guide' per se. Also, I'm pretty sure this will be my newest (best/most efficient) classic rusher, named "Efficiency".


--------------------------------------------
Skill Setup

Ice
15 Ice Bolt
01 Frozen Armor
01 Shiver Armor
01 Ice Blast
01 Frost Nova
01 Glacial Spike
01 Blizzard
20 Frozen Orb
12 Cold Mastery

Light
01 Static Field
01 Telekinesis
05 Teleport

Fire
20 Fire Bolt
20 Fire Ball
01 Warmth
01 Fire Mastery
--------
102 Skill Points, done at level 91 (can’t seem to stay interested enough to take a character past 92)

Shove extraneous points into whatever. Ice Bolt. I don’t care.


--------------------------------------------
Breakpoints

First, learn about teleporting. Understand why these breakpoints are important, then aim for:

8 frame Cast Rate
- 105% FCR

7 frame Hit Recovery Rate
- 86% FHR

Blocking’s great, but ignored in the particular setup provided (and unnecessary if you have a Call To Arms runeword). This one’s a decent blend of wealth and practicality, but know that I was able to run with 1.1k+ damage Frozen Orb and 4k+ Fire Ball without compromising build tenets/safety. That’s a bit extreme; many setups work well here. I’m leaving those out… mull them over and post your setups; 10 points if you can surprise me!


--------------------------------------------
Rich (but not filthy) Bastard Gear Setup + relevant notes

Head: Tal Rasha’s Ugly Face*
Neck: Tal Rasha’s Pearl Necklace (10% FCR)
Body: Tal Rasha’s Purple Dino Suit (10% FCR)*
Belt: Tal Rasha’s Makeshift USB-cable Belt (10% FCR)
Weapon: Tal Rasha’s Phallic Object (20% FCR) <facet/all res jewel>**
Shield: “Spirit” Monarch (35% FCR, 55% FHR)
Hands: Magefist (20% FCR)
Ring1: ***
Ring2: ****
Feetsies: Hotspur

Set bonus: 50% all resists, 25% FHR, -15% enemy fire resist, +15% cold damage, nice life/mana adds, +3 skills, etc.

Net effect: need 6% FHR, some resistances

* socket with Sol, Shael, Um, Ist runes or whatever
** socket with cold/fire facet, 15% all resist jewel, Ist rune or whatever
*** Wisp Projector for Baal teleporters… else +120 mana Bahamut ring!
**** Dwarf Star | Stone of Jordan | Bul-Kathos’ Wedding Band | Nature’s Peace | whatever adds to your utility


--------------------------------------------
Kill stuff

Frozen Orb on left mouse button (but don’t use shift-click while spellspamming) – this never changes

For big-life mobs that stand up to you:
1) hold down the right mouse button (RMB) to cast Frozen Orb
2) without releasing RMB, hotkey to Fire Ball
3) wait for the 1-second-timer from Orb to expire, then without releasing RMB, hotkey to Frozen Orb
4) if enemy still exists, repeat ad nauseum from #2


--------------------------------------------
Level Progression

This one’s a cakewalk. If you want to play untwinked, this is the sorceress for you.

1-18
Start off by building up Fire Ball (+ Fire Bolt synergy) to a level where you can comfortably 1-or-2-hit-kill things in Act 2.

Sapphires where you can, inventory full of blues, manamanamana.

18-29
1-point-wonder the cold and lightning trees; start liberally using Glacial Spike for crowd control while still blowing things up with Fire Ball. I didn’t bother using my 1-point Blizzard at all.

Save points.

30+
Level 30 = 1 point in Fire Mastery, jam the rest into Frozen Orb and Cold Mastery. Get to 20 Frozen Orb / 5 Cold Mastery then decide how much you want to invest in Cold Mastery. Preference call, really. Note: Mephisto has 75% cold resistance in Hell; Baal has 50%.

Frozen Orb from slvl 1 becomes your primary attack; Fire Ball is just an afterthought for Cold Immunes and helping Orb (in between casts) destroy huge-life-enemies (whee 8-player Izual).


--------------------------------------------
Mercenary

Emilio, my Normal Act 2 Combat (Prayer) mercenary who wielded a slvl 17 Meditation Insight Cracked Voulge, played hardcore and never died. Why?

- Frozen Orb and Fire Ball are super fast at dishing out damage; he’s rarely overwhelmed
- A very low damage Insight polearm gave me a decent buffer-zone to teleport-rescue him when he was hit with Iron Maiden
- At every available point, I’d jam a huge-defense armor onto him
- Cold keeps things slower-esque
- I paid attention

For glitching endless Baal runs (Conqueror forever!), I snipped out Insight (someone else in your party will have one, guaranteed) for a Kelpie Snare and put a Blackhorn’s Face on Emilio. Slow Baal means dead Baal. I had a Reaper’s Toll, but I found this 95% slow combo solidly effective, so never bothered testing it out.

Note: I chose a Combat (Prayer) mercenary to quest through the game with (in parties/groups). If all you're going to be doing is MF runs or boss killing, smarten up with a Defensive (Defiance) mercenary.


--------------------------------------------
Ratings
(1 = crappy, 10 = sweet)

Untwinkability = 9
Like every caster, you're heavily dependent on the availability of mana to do the majority of your damage. Like most casters, this probably means beating down "fallen" packs with javelins/sticks/fists for a good 45 minutes before you'll even consider investing in mana potions.

Don't skimp! Fill that inventory with blues and you'll be all set.

Playstyle = 9.5
Ridiculously easy to play since your spells fire in straight lines – just aim in the general direction of baddies and they die. If you’re experienced with proper teleport technique and have a solid enough (broadband) connection to not -need- the supersafety of Orb/Teleport/TK, this build is probably the absolute best magic finding character you can start a season with.

Seriously. If I still did ‘magic find’ runs, and you gave me an Enigma and a 35% FCR Spirit Sacred Targe on day 1 of a new ladder, I’d still choose to build/play this character untwinked over the Hammerdin. Without hesitation.

With infinicast Teleport (slvl high enough + mana pool large enough + regen rate fast enough to let me teleport indefinitely), I held down the RMB and never let go… I’d teleport in place while waiting for the group. Enemy pops on screen = hotkey to Frozen Orb, Glacial Spike if necessary, Fire Ball, Frozen Orb, etc—meanwhile, the RMB is still depressed from 10 minutes ago.

Gotta love aggressive characters. This one’s so powerful, though… you risk getting bored by level 92 with the repetitive linear aiming and Baal run monotony.

Durability = 8
Really, really tough to kill this character if you know your sorceresses. Stick to the tenets of safe teleporting; you’ll do fine. Might be wise to get “Battle Orders” cast before you teleport through the Claw Viper Temple in 8-player Hell untwinked, though.

Magic Find = 10
This character unlocks the full potential of the Tal Rasha Sorceress set without compromising damage, speed, or applicability (immunes). Enough said.


In sum, the milkshake produced by this build brings all the boys to the yard because it:
- doesn’t require dangerously close proximity [Nova, Charged Bolt]
- doesn’t have an overly irritating timer [Blizzard, Meteor, Fire Wall]
- doesn’t have problems ‘hitting stuff’ [Blizzard, Hydra, Fire Wall]
- doesn’t have pitiful base damage [Lightning, Chain Lightning]
- doesn’t require a more-than-double-digit IQ to aim [Fire Wall, Blaze!?]
(that said though, the above also qualify as reasons why you'd want to use 'harder' skills)

OkThanksGoKillStuffGetRichSendCa$h!


Socialism
- achieving Rockstar status, one day at a time
 
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MizzouFTW

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Haha! Soc, did you remake Awesome again?
 

Socialism

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Haha! Soc, did you remake Awesome again?
Awesome's still in the 5th iteration, so no -- but soon! I'll probably churn out my 200% FCR Nova/Fire Ball "review" and other painful memories before I rebuild Awesome (again) though.



 

MizzouFTW

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Remember when you told me I should "Finish" something before I quit? I've decided to play this girl untwinked in AB games. Once she's 91 (Your finishing point in the guide), I will be done with this game.

So thank you sir for helping me push towards a character idea.
 

Kaleban

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Just curious, and hope this isn't too nitpicky, but why the points in Ice Bolt? At only 2% per level, that's only +30%.

You could take those 14 points, reduce CM to 8 or so given +skills, and throw them all into Fire Mastery, giving a base of 19, a 156% increase.

Again, not trying to criticize, as I'm admittedly a noob lol, and even given Orb's massive AoE, not every shard is going to hit, whereas the increase in Fire Damage almost certainly will since you're sniping with Fireball.

And I'll admit I'm no master at targeting FO so it explodes on the bad guys either.

[edit] Weird too, I was using a skill calc that says its got accurate numbers, but when I max Fireball plus both synergies (Meteor and Bolt each giving +14%) the damage numbers are less than if I max one synergy and Fire Mastery. Is there something fishy going on here?
 
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Sightblinder

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

The firebolt/meteor synergies only add to the base damage of the fireball, whereas fire mastery adds to the total damage (including bonus damage of synergies).
 

Kaleban

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

If that's the case, why not max Fire Mastery instead of Fire Bolt? Or do like a 10-10 split or whatever is optimum?
 

Sightblinder

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Maybe what he has there is optimum? Or maybe he didn't bother doing all the math to min/max the character because it didn't need to be min/max'd to do what was required? If you feel the need to max it all out then feel free, maybe he'll even update the post if you find it considerably better to split points differently.
 

Kaleban

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Oh I'm no expert, I fiddled with a calc and got some numbers is all, Socialism seems like much more of an expert than I lol.

My problem is I have Character Restart Syndrome hehe, exacerbated by my lack of knowledge when it comes to playing in Hell Difficulty. I don't mind hunting for items, but I don't want to build a character that will be gimped from the start.
 

Sightblinder

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

This build will be fine in hell, really, anything well thought out will do fine. The only time you really need to worry about every point is if you plan on doing Ubers, but even then there are really only a few builds that can do them effectively, and one or two points misplaced generally won't break you.
 

sirpoopsalot

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Just curious, and hope this isn't too nitpicky, but why the points in Ice Bolt? At only 2% per level, that's only +30%.
In some cases, it's a matter of balancing your power. I hated my Meteorb for WSK/Baal runs (what I built her for) because the Orb was so mediocre. Sure my fireskills were completely over-powered, and it was super-fast & powerful when I was able to use them. But about 80% of the time that I spent playing that sorc was with her using her crappy FrozenOrb trying to take out some fire immune monster.

I would've gladly dumped a few thousand damage off of my fireball - and ditched Meteor altogether - for another ~200 damage per shard on my Orb.

Speaking of which, the build Socialism has layed-out here is one that I strongly recommend for a dual-elementalist that runs WSK/Baal. It's not extremely item dependent, having a cold-primary provides lots of chilling (chilled monsters = slowed monsters = more time = safer), and having a strong cold attack usually works wonders against the most dangerous monsters you'll face (dolls, gloams and Lister's pack).

Even outside of WSK/Baal, most of those points hold up. Focusing on a cold-based primary-attack will allow your sorc more time and space against most monsters. And building a strong backup attack in fireball is possible because FrozenOrb leaves a decent amount of skillpoints to spend into your fire skills, so the monsters that are immune to being slowed/chilled/killed by your primary-attack are usually pretty easy to take down with your backup-attack. Likewise, if you can acquire full-Tals set for equipment, you can use this sorc to MF just about anywhere you please, in relative safety and at a decent speed.



 

Kaleban

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

So in a choice between an Orb/Fireball build, and an Orb/Nova build, you'd go with Fireball? I understand the need for a lot of +skills with Nova, but it seems to me that an Orb/Nova Sorc MAY be more viable in more places than an Orb/Fireball Sorc, i.e. Countess runs. I've heard there are many more Fire/Cold immunes in Hell than Cold/Lightning too.
 

Socialism

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Thank you for your inquiries/posts!

A few sentiments, in no particular order (excepting chronological).

1. Quitting's for the weak; but man, I can't wait to be weak (?).

2. The points in Ice Bolt are to increase Frozen Orb damage by 30-40%. In 'reality' aka practical application, that's huge, because it also modifies the damage of non-hard +skills you have towards Frozen Orb as well. Many who balk at adding points to Ice Bolt (preferring Cold Mastery or whatever) tend to approach from three angles:

a) a listed damage fetish with little actual playing experience ...angle
i.e. "I'm not wasting 19 skill points for 38% more damage, screw that. I'm too efficient at build planning for this malarkey."

...just try it out in actual gameplay.

b) a low/no budget point of view, i.e. 'pure' untwinked and/or not planning for the "endgame" setup ...angle
i.e. "Gosh, 282 Orb damage unsynergized... only 387 if synergized. A trifling +105 damage increase isn't worth 20 skill points."

"Sweet spot" orbs (last Orb explosion pops within an enemy's graphic) launch 16 shards (technically 18 will hit [watch this frame-by-frame with fraps], but the extra 2 aren't actually from the very last 'volley').

At slvl 20, that's more like a (105 x 16) +1680 damage increase.

Gets better. This damage increase skyrockets with +skills, because that 40% multiplies total Orb damage, not just the 20 hard points.

Slvl 32 (+12 skills is a very reasonable mid-wealth presumption) for the non-dupewording character is not just a +174 damage increase (466 to 640 max), but in fact (174 x 16) +2784 damage.

Since you'll have beefy Cold Mastery, versus the vast, vast majority of non-cold immunes, you're doing double damage, so +3360 (slvl 20) and +5568 (slvl 32) damage per cast, respectively. Face.


c) an obtuse ...angle
i.e. "roflcpter LMAoo, Orb is teh nub, blizz clirly pwns u weetahd... lol goodluck... obv can't tppk w/o full syn ib"

Oh hey, what's up, JSP?

3. Synergies only increase Fire Ball damage; Fire Mastery increases total Fire Ball damage (including synergy application). Infinite loop if Meteor/Fire Bolt synergy increases modified each other's bonus as well, I think? What I've posted is the most damage you can get with Fire Ball for 41 skill points.

4. I'm no expert, just experienced (over the years, I've likely "Guardianed" over 55~60+ Frozen Orb related sorceressessessess, just ask anyone who games with me how often I'll arbitrarily rebuild for "optimization purposes"...).

5. The best way to see if something works out for you is to actually try it. You can spend 3 days mulling over a build because you only want to build it once (for some reason?); but if you wanted to, you could have taken three different iterations to 80-85 in that time. More fun that way!

6. You're comparing apples and oranges with Nova and Fire Ball... don't just sit there and speculate; sit there and play!

7. I really don't think any teleporting character needs to be specially built to run Countess/Summoner. They've such little life, they'll die easily to any melee mercenary of an appropriate level (at least matching mlvl for viable %to hit) with a decent (i.e. shopped Cruel mod exceptional/elite) weapon.
 
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sirpoopsalot

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

So in a choice between an Orb/Fireball build, and an Orb/Nova build, you'd go with Fireball? I understand the need for a lot of +skills with Nova, but it seems to me that an Orb/Nova Sorc MAY be more viable in more places than an Orb/Fireball Sorc, i.e. Countess runs. I've heard there are many more Fire/Cold immunes in Hell than Cold/Lightning too.
Actually, I do prefer the Orb/Nova build (link), but I believe Nova is significantly more item-dependent than fireball. And if I were often in games full of 8 players, I'd probably reconsider because it's easier to boost Fireball more than Nova, to some extents.

And I do agree that Cold/Light is a less-common monster immunity than Cold/Fire. Going back to WSK, Lister is a good example. He is CI/FI a decent amount of the time, but he can't ever spawn CI/LI, so the Orb/Nova sorc is never forced to use the merc to finish him off. And the nova-based sorc could kick Countess butt a little easier than the fireball-based one, but I agree with Socialism that that's a fairly minor point, since both builds can work well enough for that task.

I also agree with Socialism that folks should try some ideas they might not agree with initially. We can all learn a lot that way.

:wave:



 

Socialism

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Actually, I do prefer the Orb/Nova build (link)
Zounds! I'm pretty sure you're the first person I've ever met that has also played the 200fcr dual element Nova sorceress.

I built a Nova/Fire Ball 200 FCR sorc, east hardcore ladder... ended up killing her to salvage the name because, well, she was a bit of a liability in 3+ player games. Sad, really. Even with an Infinity on the mercenary... ungh.

Damn you, skill "balancing" portion of 1.10; damn you to heck.



 

norodian

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Isn't the amount of life to low with STR for Spirit and DEX for maxblock?
 

MYK

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Isn't the amount of life to low with STR for Spirit and DEX for maxblock?
Sure would be, and that's why there's nothing in this guide that tells you to do that. :thumbup:


 

norodian

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Sure would be, and that's why there's nothing in this guide that tells you to do that. :thumbup:

Well if you read the guide a little bit more carefully that's exactly what it does... as of the gear "Shield: "Spirit" Monarch bla bla"

and as of the max block he says "Learn about teleporting" and in that thread you can find that max block is very nec.

So... I would like an answer of Socialism :)

BTW: I'm not complainging here, just got a little bit curious about that part since I'm making this sorc..

Nice guide btw:yes:


 

MYK

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

Well if you read the guide a little bit more carefully
"Blocking’s great, but ignored in the particular setup provided (and unnecessary if you have a Call To Arms runeword)"

There's all you need to pay attention to, right there in the quotes. And thanks for making sure that I'm reading carefully, I'd hate to miss something obvious.

As for a really good question to ask him: What's your rationale for not blocking if you've got a CTA/BO barb?


 

Socialism

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hardcore Frozen Orb/Fire Ball Sorceress; Socialism’s “Orb-it-allerâ€

What's your rationale for not blocking if you've got a CTA/BO barb?
When you have 1800++ life... very few hits will do enough damage (1/12 of life) to put you into hit recovery - and with Spirit and a 5% FHR small charm - you're at 8 frame hit recovery (same as your FCR).



 
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