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Hardcore DTalon Kicksin, detailed build concept

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by kridebbent, Mar 27, 2004.

  1. kridebbent

    kridebbent IncGamers Member

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    Hardcore DTalon Kicksin, detailed build concept

    This is my DTalon/Death Sentry Assassin build for Hardcore. It's designed for a medium budget (decent gear but nothing prohibitive), and is a solely PvM build. All stats and skills listed are assuming clvl 79 and just entering Hell (that's how I like to plan my builds). Any advice or commentary is much appreciated, I would like to know how well this build would do in Hell.



    Helm: Guillaume's Face socketed with 15% IAS jewel
    Body: "Lionheart" runeword Wire Fleece
    Weapon: "Strength" runeword Greater Talons
    Shield: Whitstan's Guard socketed with PDiamond
    Belt: Wilhelm's Pride
    Boots: Gore Riders (upgraded to Myrmidon Greaves)
    Gloves: Magnus' Skin
    Amulet: Highlord's Wrath
    Ring1: Raven Frost
    Ring2: Raven Frost
    Switch1: +3 shadow claw
    Switch2: +3 shadow claw
    Inventory: +3 shadow helm (for pre-buffing), 3x Martial Arts GCs, remainder are resists, life, and lightning damage charms

    (Assuming minimum stats on all items that can vary)


    IAS: 55% (gives 7/2/2/2/2 kicks)
    Crushing blow: 75%
    Blocking: 75%
    Damage per kick (not including 75% crushing blow, assuming 1-250 lightning damage added from charms/eq):
    ...Min: 476 physical + 1 lightning + 30 cold = 507
    ...Max: 790 physical + 250 lightning + 90 cold = 1130
    ...Average damage from 5-kick sequence assuming 50% enemy physical resist and all kicks hit = 2502 over 15 frames
    (Resists from gear includes 20% from 2x Mara quest reward)
    FireRes: 99% from eq, 164% with Fade (11% needed from charms for max res in Hell)
    ColdRes: 94% from eq, 159% with Fade (16% needed from charms for max res in Hell)
    ColdAbsorb: 40%
    LgtngRes: 119% from eq, 184% with Fade
    PoisonRes: 84% from eq, 148% with Fade (I don't worry about maxing this)
    Physical Damage Reduced: 30% (from Fade)

    Faster R/W: 30%
    FHR: 30%
    MF: 80%

    Life steal: 12%
    Mana steal: 5%

    Stat allocations (400 pts available):
    Str: 20 base, 56 points added, +80 from gear = 156
    Dex: 20 base, 80 points added, +55 from gear = 155
    Vit: 20 base, 264 points added, +30 from gear = 314
    Energy: 25 base, 0 points added, +10 from gear = 35

    Life: 50 base, +156 from levels, +40 from Jade Figurine quest x2, +882 from vit, +150 from charms (approx) + 135 from gear = 1413
    Mana: plenty!

    Skill allocations (86 points assuming entering Hell diff at level 79):
    20 DTalon (24 with +skills)
    1 Claw Mastery (prereq)
    1 Psychic Hammer (prereq)
    1 Burst of Speed (prereq)
    1 Weapon Block (prereq)
    1 Cloak of Shadows (8 when cast from switch)
    20 Fade (30 with pre-buffing +skills)
    1 Shadow Warrior (prereq)
    1 Mind Blast (8 when cast from switch)
    7 Shadow Master (17 with pre-buffing +skills)
    1 Fire Blast (prereq)
    1 Shock Web (prereq)
    1 Charged Bolt Sentry (prereq)
    9 Lightning Sentry (synergy)
    20 Death Sentry (21 with +skills)

    All subsequent points go into Lightning Sentry/CB Sentry for synergies


    Please comment and let me know how I could improve this build!
     
  2. Shadoway

    Shadoway IncGamers Member

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    I strongly suggest that you go with dual claws. Actually, I am building a "dancer" build (whirlwind+dtalon) myself. My DoomDancer is level 40ish now and she will use:
    20 DTalon
    20 Fade
    20 Venom
    10 Claw Mastery
    10 Weapon Block
    10 Shadow Master
    1 Mind Blast
    1 Blade Fury (to avoid IM)
    1 Death Sentry
    1 Whirlwind from claw (don't have ohm yet, but no worry she is just 40)

    That will be 102 points total at level 91. Her equipment will be:
    "Chaos" Runic Talon
    Bartuc's Runic Talon (shael)
    Guillaume's Face (sol)
    "Stone" Archon Plate
    Dracul's Grasp
    Up'ed Gore Rider
    String of Ears
    Cat's Eye
    Raven Frost
    Dwarf Star
    Resist charms as necessary, rest shadow charms.

    I can see your needs are different. You only need to use DTalon. I suggest that you use 2x Bartuc's (shael) as weapon and VenomGrip as glove. You still have 55%CB (from 75%). But with the claws you will have an extra kick (and better weapon block). Plus, the stat points added are really nice. Pump up your weapon block; it is superior to shield block. Venom should be maxed and Death Sentry needs only 1 point.
     
  3. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    Well, Shadoway..that was not really a comment on the build..but rather a totally different assassin. The original build is a DT/Trap Hybrid, yours is just a MA assassin.

    That said, I funnily have a lv 79 DT/trap sin myself atm...its just build different. Maybe your build with 20 pts in Fade is actually better at surviving. But I went for dial claws and block myself (as claw block can block elemental attacks that a shield can't...and it works while running. Shield only blocks 1/3 when running) But the CC/CS discussion is like religion. Everybody hotly defends their own ideas.

    I have maxed LS and DS because I did not max Fade, 15 in SM and 10 in WB. Usually a fight goes like this: Lay traps, Cast SM ahead, MB and CoS the monsters, charge in and kill some. Detonate bodies...repeat.

    Since I got some gear donations, I use a Jadeclaw on my left hand and get max resists that way as well. I also go all out CB, but use SoE and Um'ed Shaft or Duriels Shell, depending where I play.

    But that's just different ideas, not necessarily better. I feel the most important part is the resists and the CB idea (Venomgrip and Rattlecage would add even more)....and the part about CC/CS where we disagree.

    Fun build
     
  4. Cleglaw_Himself

    Cleglaw_Himself IncGamers Member

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    So venom skill works with dragon talon?
     
  5. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    ..as do all elemental attacks, like e.g Firelizzard claws on the second hand. Its not being displayed in the damage screen (bug)..but works. Monsters turn green, puffs of explosions go up, lightning sizzles can be seen. (if you have that kind of damage on a claw/charm/etc).

    Definitely works.
     
  6. Shadoway

    Shadoway IncGamers Member

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    Well, if the traps are to be emphasized, I think the following should be fine:
    10 Death Sentry
    20 Lightening Sentry
    20 DTalon
    20 Fade
    10 Weapon Block
    10 Venom
    1 Shadow Master
    1 Mind Blast

    Can be done with 100 skill points at level 89. At least det and I are both favouring C/C setup.
     
  7. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    I would just love to know why he uses a full Orphans set? Nothing else available? The boni to this set don't seem so awesome :scratch:

    The DR and resists from Fade would probably be attainable from somewhere else (SoE has already a good deal on it, SMOKE or LIONHEART give great resists) - you can tell I am more of a fan of speed :)
     
  8. Mr.Bogohossian

    Mr.Bogohossian Banned

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    Seems to me that both of you forgot damage reduce and went for all damage build. Hell will be a true test, stagion dolls will slain you in 1 or 2 explodes.
     
  9. kridebbent

    kridebbent IncGamers Member

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    Thanks for your comments.

    I've always kind of had a weakness for Orphan's set, I think it's really underrated. And if you are going C/S (which I prefer -- like you mentioned, it's kind of a religion thing :)) then you already have 2 parts of the set with Guillaume's and Whitstan's. The gloves and belt aren't anything spectacular, but the full set does give a handy +20 str, +10 dex, +85 life (I feel that the high stat reqs are the main drawback to kicksins in HC). The other option would be to go with CB/IAS gloves and maybe a TGods, and that would definitely work too. But, no one will trade me a TGods.

    I am toying with whether or not to max Fade; I'm still not entirely sure that 1% PDR per skillpoint is a good trade. Venom would be the other way to go, but most people seem to think it doesn't work well with DTalon.
     
  10. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    Well, I started putting points in Venom..but sort of stopped at lv 10. In hell, it just does not cut it for me..even with the idea of maybe 2 of my 5 kicks carrying 300+ poison damage. I sometimes use the firelizzard claws...those 480 or so fire damage get applied to every kick..and that does not seem to make as much of a difference than Crushing blow does.

    Yeah..Fade...its certainly nice to have it (I can cast it at about lv 5 or so)..but maybe if you can get a Shaftstop, those 30 % DR take care of your problem....then again..you are having already a hard time getting a Tgods
     
  11. jsiv

    jsiv IncGamers Member

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    What realm are you on, Kridebbent? I've got a spare T-God's lying around somewhere.

    EDIT: Which would be on Europe, hehe.
     
  12. SonOfRah

    SonOfRah IncGamers Member

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    dolls kill people already with dr.

    Contrary to popular belief, you do not need dr to survive hell.

    Dolls are another matter entirely, but they're one of the more lethal monsters kill in the game.
     
  13. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    Well, to be honest I usually wear a Duriels Shell with my sin, only DR is on SoE. I trust my Merc and SM to intercept dolls and will always cast traps ahead. I don't kick dolls...who would .scratch:
     
  14. Baranor

    Baranor IncGamers Member

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    IIRC +max damage charms do not carry ovr when kicking. Check the assassin forum's pinned subject on kicking and claw speed for that. only elemental damage carries over when kicking.
     
  15. SonOfRah

    SonOfRah IncGamers Member

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    +max of any kind doesn't carry with kicks.

    ED/Max jools are bugged in armor and are considered only as +max, and thus don't work either.
     
  16. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    Right at that, Mr. Bear.

    How's the teaching coming along...I see you have time to stalk the forums again, does that mean you'll soon be hunting again?
     
  17. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    I have 14, soon to be 15 Characters that have QUESTED, not rushed the game and only one wears any PDR and it happens to be my Avenger who happens to have a 118 Priz Shield with basically no block, he had tons of rez so I slapped a Shaft on him (hell I have 5 only mules).

    My DT Sin is such a simple build and it smokes.

    Tucs/Jade
    Raven
    Sin ammy
    LL Ring
    Was wearing Durys Shell but now has an Empty Griz on and still kills DC great or anythign!
    Some IK Gear for Stats
    Gullieums
    Unique Sin boots (Stinger is a tight *** and doesnt like spending runes to upgrade stuff) Should be upped Gores, but after trying these hell i dont need more!

    Only the 35% CB on the Helm and she smokes.

    She has like 5 MA Charms and 1 Shadow (hell I have been cursed with them might as well use them)

    Max DT
    Max Master
    Max Venom (i really dont know if this is doing a lot but its doing something)
    maxing Fade not sure of lvl now
    1 BS
    1 DS
    1 CB
    1 Blades and use it a lot

    Fact is Maxed DT 1 point in Blades, 1 in DS, and some decent gear with Crushing will do the trick. Hell I havent even spent the socket to hit the 2/2/2/2 point!!!

    This build is so sickly devistating and can be done MANY ways from Traps added to more MA stuff whatever you want to do.
     
  18. Baboon

    Baboon IncGamers Member

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    Same here with my hybrid assy. I don't kick dolls and I don't kick anything in the chaos sanctuary and worldstone thingie :grrr:

    The game is so predictable and it's not very hard to stay alive. And then you die because you kicked an oblivion knight :scratch:
     
  19. Afro AmeriZON

    Afro AmeriZON IncGamers Member

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    I just made a death sentry/MA assassin. Currently lvl 86, almost lvl87. She works great in hell, while not a cookie cutter it is fun to play. I had a budget setup until I acquired the rest of nats set over the weekend. I have lvl 27 death sentry/lightning sentry and fire blast for the synergies. fade/BoS are around lvl 10 or so. I am almost max resists in hell without fade so i don't use it. I have a lvl23 shadow master. lvl 10 claw mastery, lvl 9 TS and DT. I am going to swap out my IK belt for a T-gods when I can get one. I'll make up the resist loss from IK belt with the sockets in nats armor. I use nats claw and 199% bartucs. I am also trying to trade for the runes to upgrade the tucs. I'm not rich so sometimes I have trouble coming across things, luckily I had a trap charm to trade for nats claw.
     
  20. det

    det IncGamers Member

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    DT meaning Dragon Talon (not Tail)....why upgrade the Bartucs? Its not as if it matters for the damage..that comes from the boots :scratch: I still use a crappy claw with STRENGTH runeword as my main claw for the CB....or is it for the damage on TS...well..I guess then i don't really understand the combination of low lv TS and Dragon Talon - you don't get that many kicks at lv 9 (3 to be exact).

    I'd say lv 18 Dragon Talon (with all the +skill gear you have you could easily get lv 24) and 5 kicks will just kill faster than aquiring 3 charges of TS and releasing them...

    ..then again..if it works for you, enjoy ;)
     

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