Hardcore cold sorc

phalaris

Diabloii.Net Member
Hardcore cold sorc

Hi everyone,

I'm gonna keep it brief, because I'm in a hurry. I got very little detailed insight into this question at d2jsp.. I hope to get a little more than 'yes' or 'no' here.. :)

(1) Should my Bliz sorc have ES? If so, should I max ES and TK? If so, what should I sacrifice?
I've heard that not having ES in hardcore is suicidal, but I don't believe that.. what about the elemental rape I will receive?
At the moment I'm leaning towards a max block, non-ES Bliz sorc with maxed synergies..

(2) If I do decide to go with ES, will a Forb sorc with max CM/ice bolt not be more effective than a Bliz ES sorc?

(3) Which is better in hardcore, and more fun: a Bliz non-ES pure vita max block sorc? or a max ES/TK Forber?

Thanks for the feedback,

Regards,

Phalaris
 

Tai.

Diabloii.Net Member
I'd suggest making memory (i think thats the correct runeword) in a + ES staff and prebuffing it on switch, one point in it, 16 tk, Max Blizz and CM ,rest in syns etc.

You know, the basics
-tai
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
Why the point in ES? I'd go with 20 TK on any ES build, else the ES is only good for draining mana.

Hardcore, I'd have some serious help, or twinking done to prevent death from low life early on.

If you're making a pure blizz with max block, use withstan's guard (pdia) for shield, else you'll suffer from low life. Each stat point saved = 2 more life.
 

MoUsE_WiZ

Diabloii.Net Member
(1) Should my Bliz sorc have ES? If so, should I max ES and TK? If so, what should I sacrifice?

1 ES
20 TK
Let skills do the rest for your ES... this is pretty standard advice on these forums. Very few, if any, people will recommend 20 in ES.

ES is not needed though, 50% DR, 75% block, stacked resists against at least LR (probably conviction, preferably both), and some FHR/FCR and you'll be pretty safe. You'll still be playing a bit of russian roulette, but definitely not too bad. I wouldn't port hell baals on a regular basis with it, I wouldn't be afraid to do it once in a while though.

(2) If I do decide to go with ES, will a Forb sorc with max CM/ice bolt not be more effective than a Bliz ES sorc?

Blizz (fully synergized or not) and Orb (ice bolt or not) will do many things at the same speed, especially single targets like meph. A good orb build will port around significantly better than blizzard, blizzard will kill packs (eg seals in CS, AT, Baal waves - but it won't be as effective getting there) much quicker.

(3) Which is better in hardcore, and more fun: a Bliz non-ES pure vita max block sorc? or a max ES/TK Forber?

Orb4lyfe!!1
Also, I'm not sure why you specify max vit/block on the blizzer... the orber would be the same.
 

phalaris

Diabloii.Net Member
Alright thanks for the feedback..

I still don't understand why only 1 point into ES, and not 20? Is it simply to make up ground in Bliz synergies?

Would you recommend 20 points into ES for a pure forber? Or is there a more subtle reason, like deliberately not absorbing as much dmg to mana to avoid elemental rape, etc.?

Hmm... how much energy would you recommend?

I also presume SS would be a given, yes?
 

Tai.

Diabloii.Net Member
only and i repeat only put max points in es if you plan on using it to stay alive as opposed to vitality.

that would require...

Max ES
Max TK (or at least 16 for the 1:1)
Max Orb
Max Cold Mastery
1 Warmth
3 light pre-reqs
1 static
and most importantly...

20 tele because otherwise a manaburn boss KILLS you...

that's 105 points without a synergy, a cold armor, only one point in static and one in warmth so you'd need insight on your merc as opposed to the other options, plus you'd be very vulnerable until level 24, actually later than that before your ES got to the point where it stopped you from getting hit for life too.

-Tai
 

phalaris

Diabloii.Net Member
Tai. said:
only and i repeat only put max points in es if you plan on using it to stay alive as opposed to vitality.

that would require...

Max ES
Max TK (or at least 16 for the 1:1)
Max Orb
Max Cold Mastery
1 Warmth
3 light pre-reqs
1 static
and most importantly...

20 tele because otherwise a manaburn boss KILLS you...

that's 105 points without a synergy, a cold armor, only one point in static and one in warmth so you'd need insight on your merc as opposed to the other options, plus you'd be very vulnerable until level 24, actually later than that before your ES got to the point where it stopped you from getting hit for life too.

-Tai
Alright cheers.. so that's my Forber option sorted..

But what about Bliz?
And which would you recommend anyway, out of the options I posted? (Vita Bliz, ES Bliz, ES Forb..)
 

MoUsE_WiZ

Diabloii.Net Member
I still don't understand why only 1 point into ES, and not 20? Is it simply to make up ground in Bliz synergies?

One point in ES, after skills, with decent gear, will get you somewhere in the 50-75% absorb range. This is enough, that when coupled with your block, DR, resists, and HP, that you're not likely to die. Putting more points in ES tends to result in the blue bulb draining a lot quicker which makes you reliant on having a large blue bulb to keep it from being completely empty which results in less safety behind the blue bulb which means death if the blue bulb does run out.

Would you recommend 20 points into ES for a pure forber? Or is there a more subtle reason, like deliberately not absorbing as much dmg to mana to avoid elemental rape, etc.?
No, and you've got the reason about right.

Hmm... how much energy would you recommend?
With 1 ES 20 TK, 0. With 0 ES, 0. With max ES, I honestly couldn't say as I don't trust the build on paper to try it in practice.

I also presume SS would be a given, yes?
If you've got it, yes.
 

PhatTrumpet

Diabloii.Net Member
phalaris said:
I still don't understand why only 1 point into ES, and not 20? Is it simply to make up ground in Bliz synergies?
1 point ES with +7 from gear (not difficult to get) = 55% absorb
20 points ES with the same +7 from gear = 82% absorb

Not only is that an extremely inefficient use of 19 skill points, it'll very quickly get to the point where you can't even sustain your mana pool, especially when getting bombarded by Gloams or Black Souls. In fact, I refuse to build for ES on any Sorc that I plan to do Hell Baals with. It's simply more of a nuisance than anything else to me.
 

LuckyDwarf

Diabloii.Net Member
I build a blizzard sorc like this.

Blizzard
Cold Mastery
Ice Blast
Telekinesis
Ice Bolt
Rest in Spike

I max bolt before spike to add damage to blizzard, spike has its freezing uses regardless of the damage it does, so I don't see the need to really boost it, as you can spam it as needed inbetween blizzards. Sometimes, if I have the gear, I'll max bolt before telekinesis, as I find ES only needed in hell.

Lucky
 

hugman

Diabloii.Net Member
I'll steal the thread for a short moment.
I've only made blocksorcs before, but right now I'm building a meteorber and I was planning to go with base energy and dex and just pump vit. I'm a bit unconfident though. I'm mainly going to run meph and pindle and block is nice vs mephs ball, but I mean, if it hits me I'll need to survive anyway so... Is it viable to do hell without block?
 

STINGER

Diabloii.Net Member
Frankly you get more out of the dex than you get out of the Vita, especially if you use items that require dex. You cant make up dex in charms like you can life. It isnt not that difficult to have a 1200-1400 life sorc (with work on charms) and have max block with a high block shield like Whitstans.

Also if you can add in Oak on your build then you can be 1800ish IIRC with max block.

I personaly wouldnt build wihtout ES/TK........but I know many that have and done well.

My personal preference "was" I havent played one in a long time:

17 TK (I dont recall why just 17 maybe someone else can remember better)
1 ES
Max Blizz
Max Glacial (I use it a ton)
Leftovers other synergys
1 Shiver
1 Static
Pre-reqs

Str for Viper (upped if wanted)
Dex for Max Block on Whitstans
Rest Vita
Base energy

Viper/Whitstans/Wizzy
Used that "rest in peace Oak ring when soloing
Frostys

full charms but 8 slots open and I cubed most of them from smalls found in Hell and NM.

I dont like Orb, never have......built my Met/Fireballer very similar.

Having a damage to mana item is not a bad idea.

No block full Vita IMO isnt a good way to go it is really just to easy to get max block and more life if you do it.
 

hugman

Diabloii.Net Member
STINGER said:
Used that "rest in peace Oak ring when soloing

I dont like Orb, never have

Having a damage to mana item is not a bad idea.
I haven't got that ring unfortunately. I've never liked blizz so :)
20 orb
15-ish cm
20 meteor
20 fire ball
1 warmth
1 static
1 tele
9 pre-rec

total 87
I wouldn't be able to put that many points in tk, atleast until higher lvls (I probably wont go over 85 though). Still worth it?
I could use talbelt instead of Gloomstrap though.
Thanks for the reply.
 

STINGER

Diabloii.Net Member
That specific ring use to be darn cheap, its the one wiht light absorb that was expensive.

I have little comment on a met/orb build.......but if you go that route you simply dont have anything left for ES.....best route is probably Block/PDR/Elemental absorbs for that build.

I thought Met/Orb didnt get Fireball?
 

d00m2k

Diabloii.Net Member
Once you go max block with any character, especially with a teleporting sorc, you will never go back. Grab a whistlans and stick a Pdiamond in it for teleporting, then switch to whatever you want for boss/mob kills.
 
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