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Hardcore cold sorc

Discussion in 'Hardcore' started by phalaris, Sep 23, 2006.

  1. phalaris

    phalaris IncGamers Member

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    Hardcore cold sorc

    Hi everyone,

    I'm gonna keep it brief, because I'm in a hurry. I got very little detailed insight into this question at d2jsp.. I hope to get a little more than 'yes' or 'no' here.. :)

    (1) Should my Bliz sorc have ES? If so, should I max ES and TK? If so, what should I sacrifice?
    I've heard that not having ES in hardcore is suicidal, but I don't believe that.. what about the elemental rape I will receive?
    At the moment I'm leaning towards a max block, non-ES Bliz sorc with maxed synergies..

    (2) If I do decide to go with ES, will a Forb sorc with max CM/ice bolt not be more effective than a Bliz ES sorc?

    (3) Which is better in hardcore, and more fun: a Bliz non-ES pure vita max block sorc? or a max ES/TK Forber?

    Thanks for the feedback,

    Regards,

    Phalaris
     
  2. Tai.

    Tai. IncGamers Member

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    I'd suggest making memory (i think thats the correct runeword) in a + ES staff and prebuffing it on switch, one point in it, 16 tk, Max Blizz and CM ,rest in syns etc.

    You know, the basics
    -tai
     
  3. helvete

    helvete IncGamers Member

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    Why the point in ES? I'd go with 20 TK on any ES build, else the ES is only good for draining mana.

    Hardcore, I'd have some serious help, or twinking done to prevent death from low life early on.

    If you're making a pure blizz with max block, use withstan's guard (pdia) for shield, else you'll suffer from low life. Each stat point saved = 2 more life.
     
  4. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    (1) Should my Bliz sorc have ES? If so, should I max ES and TK? If so, what should I sacrifice?

    1 ES
    20 TK
    Let skills do the rest for your ES... this is pretty standard advice on these forums. Very few, if any, people will recommend 20 in ES.

    ES is not needed though, 50% DR, 75% block, stacked resists against at least LR (probably conviction, preferably both), and some FHR/FCR and you'll be pretty safe. You'll still be playing a bit of russian roulette, but definitely not too bad. I wouldn't port hell baals on a regular basis with it, I wouldn't be afraid to do it once in a while though.

    (2) If I do decide to go with ES, will a Forb sorc with max CM/ice bolt not be more effective than a Bliz ES sorc?

    Blizz (fully synergized or not) and Orb (ice bolt or not) will do many things at the same speed, especially single targets like meph. A good orb build will port around significantly better than blizzard, blizzard will kill packs (eg seals in CS, AT, Baal waves - but it won't be as effective getting there) much quicker.

    (3) Which is better in hardcore, and more fun: a Bliz non-ES pure vita max block sorc? or a max ES/TK Forber?

    Orb4lyfe!!1
    Also, I'm not sure why you specify max vit/block on the blizzer... the orber would be the same.
     
  5. phalaris

    phalaris IncGamers Member

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    Alright thanks for the feedback..

    I still don't understand why only 1 point into ES, and not 20? Is it simply to make up ground in Bliz synergies?

    Would you recommend 20 points into ES for a pure forber? Or is there a more subtle reason, like deliberately not absorbing as much dmg to mana to avoid elemental rape, etc.?

    Hmm... how much energy would you recommend?

    I also presume SS would be a given, yes?
     
  6. Tai.

    Tai. IncGamers Member

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    only and i repeat only put max points in es if you plan on using it to stay alive as opposed to vitality.

    that would require...

    Max ES
    Max TK (or at least 16 for the 1:1)
    Max Orb
    Max Cold Mastery
    1 Warmth
    3 light pre-reqs
    1 static
    and most importantly...

    20 tele because otherwise a manaburn boss KILLS you...

    that's 105 points without a synergy, a cold armor, only one point in static and one in warmth so you'd need insight on your merc as opposed to the other options, plus you'd be very vulnerable until level 24, actually later than that before your ES got to the point where it stopped you from getting hit for life too.

    -Tai
     
  7. phalaris

    phalaris IncGamers Member

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    Alright cheers.. so that's my Forber option sorted..

    But what about Bliz?
    And which would you recommend anyway, out of the options I posted? (Vita Bliz, ES Bliz, ES Forb..)
     
  8. MoUsE_WiZ

    MoUsE_WiZ IncGamers Member

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    I still don't understand why only 1 point into ES, and not 20? Is it simply to make up ground in Bliz synergies?

    One point in ES, after skills, with decent gear, will get you somewhere in the 50-75% absorb range. This is enough, that when coupled with your block, DR, resists, and HP, that you're not likely to die. Putting more points in ES tends to result in the blue bulb draining a lot quicker which makes you reliant on having a large blue bulb to keep it from being completely empty which results in less safety behind the blue bulb which means death if the blue bulb does run out.

    Would you recommend 20 points into ES for a pure forber? Or is there a more subtle reason, like deliberately not absorbing as much dmg to mana to avoid elemental rape, etc.?
    No, and you've got the reason about right.

    Hmm... how much energy would you recommend?
    With 1 ES 20 TK, 0. With 0 ES, 0. With max ES, I honestly couldn't say as I don't trust the build on paper to try it in practice.

    I also presume SS would be a given, yes?
    If you've got it, yes.
     
  9. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    1 point ES with +7 from gear (not difficult to get) = 55% absorb
    20 points ES with the same +7 from gear = 82% absorb

    Not only is that an extremely inefficient use of 19 skill points, it'll very quickly get to the point where you can't even sustain your mana pool, especially when getting bombarded by Gloams or Black Souls. In fact, I refuse to build for ES on any Sorc that I plan to do Hell Baals with. It's simply more of a nuisance than anything else to me.
     
  10. LuckyDwarf

    LuckyDwarf IncGamers Member

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    I build a blizzard sorc like this.

    Blizzard
    Cold Mastery
    Ice Blast
    Telekinesis
    Ice Bolt
    Rest in Spike

    I max bolt before spike to add damage to blizzard, spike has its freezing uses regardless of the damage it does, so I don't see the need to really boost it, as you can spam it as needed inbetween blizzards. Sometimes, if I have the gear, I'll max bolt before telekinesis, as I find ES only needed in hell.

    Lucky
     
  11. hugman

    hugman IncGamers Member

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    I'll steal the thread for a short moment.
    I've only made blocksorcs before, but right now I'm building a meteorber and I was planning to go with base energy and dex and just pump vit. I'm a bit unconfident though. I'm mainly going to run meph and pindle and block is nice vs mephs ball, but I mean, if it hits me I'll need to survive anyway so... Is it viable to do hell without block?
     
  12. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    Frankly you get more out of the dex than you get out of the Vita, especially if you use items that require dex. You cant make up dex in charms like you can life. It isnt not that difficult to have a 1200-1400 life sorc (with work on charms) and have max block with a high block shield like Whitstans.

    Also if you can add in Oak on your build then you can be 1800ish IIRC with max block.

    I personaly wouldnt build wihtout ES/TK........but I know many that have and done well.

    My personal preference "was" I havent played one in a long time:

    17 TK (I dont recall why just 17 maybe someone else can remember better)
    1 ES
    Max Blizz
    Max Glacial (I use it a ton)
    Leftovers other synergys
    1 Shiver
    1 Static
    Pre-reqs

    Str for Viper (upped if wanted)
    Dex for Max Block on Whitstans
    Rest Vita
    Base energy

    Viper/Whitstans/Wizzy
    Used that "rest in peace Oak ring when soloing
    Frostys

    full charms but 8 slots open and I cubed most of them from smalls found in Hell and NM.

    I dont like Orb, never have......built my Met/Fireballer very similar.

    Having a damage to mana item is not a bad idea.

    No block full Vita IMO isnt a good way to go it is really just to easy to get max block and more life if you do it.
     
  13. hugman

    hugman IncGamers Member

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    I haven't got that ring unfortunately. I've never liked blizz so :)
    20 orb
    15-ish cm
    20 meteor
    20 fire ball
    1 warmth
    1 static
    1 tele
    9 pre-rec

    total 87
    I wouldn't be able to put that many points in tk, atleast until higher lvls (I probably wont go over 85 though). Still worth it?
    I could use talbelt instead of Gloomstrap though.
    Thanks for the reply.
     
  14. STINGER

    STINGER IncGamers Member

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    That specific ring use to be darn cheap, its the one wiht light absorb that was expensive.

    I have little comment on a met/orb build.......but if you go that route you simply dont have anything left for ES.....best route is probably Block/PDR/Elemental absorbs for that build.

    I thought Met/Orb didnt get Fireball?
     
  15. PhatTrumpet

    PhatTrumpet IncGamers Member

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    On the contrary, Fire Ball is generally the primary skill of a Meteorb build.
     
  16. d00m2k

    d00m2k IncGamers Member

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    Once you go max block with any character, especially with a teleporting sorc, you will never go back. Grab a whistlans and stick a Pdiamond in it for teleporting, then switch to whatever you want for boss/mob kills.
     

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