Hands Of Justice Bow analysis (Sur/Cham/Amn/Lo)

Tragics

Diabloii.Net Member
Hands Of Justice Bow analysis (Sur/Cham/Amn/Lo)

Firstly, lets take a look at this runeword. I am a pure fan of bowazon, so all possible godly runewords must cater to bows!!! Since I have possessed and play tested with a Botd Hydra bow, the mavina's battle hymn set and the legendary Windforce, then the next natural runeword to me is the Hands of justice!! But the question is, will it live up to its name because the runes are a real pain to collect. -_-;
I finally rounded up the runes so i want to give it a try, BUT first i need opinions. hehe.

RUNEWORD STAT
100% Chance To Cast Level 36 Blaze When You Level-Up
100% Chance To Cast Level 48 Meteor When You Die
Level 16 Holy Fire Aura When Equipped
+33% Increased Attack Speed
+280-330% Enhanced Damage
Ignore Target's Defense
7% Life Stolen Per Hit
-20% To Enemy Fire Resistance
20% Deadly Strike
Hit Blinds Target
Freezes Target +3

- 100% Chance To Cast Level 36 Blaze When You Level-Up
This is merely for eye candy. @[email protected]

- 100% Chance To Cast Level 48 Meteor When You Die
Maybe good for revenge when u die. Eye candy. @[email protected]

- Level 16 Holy Fire Aura When Equipped
radius 14, 14-16 fire dmg, 85-97 dmg added to attack. Seems pretty low end.

- +33% Increased Attack Speed
If i equipped it into a shadow bow, i can get the equivalent of 43 ias from the bow. Achieving a 9 frame strafe isn't a problem here for me.

Shadow bow base speed - 0
base dmg - 15-59 (37 avg)

Hydra Bow base speed - 10
base dmg - 10 to 68 (39 avg)

- +280-330% Enhanced Damage
Although not as high as (400% for botd), but damage looks ok. Correct me if im wrong but how do i apply this damage to the great bow? is this correct, assuming i gotten 330%ed ?
(decimals are removed)
330% X 15(min) 330% X 59(max) = 49-194

- Ignore Target's Defense
What can i say? :) always hits except for those 3 classes of monsters that cannot be applied to ITD.

- 7% Life Stolen Per Hit
Although lesser than botd LL, but some leech is still better than no leech.

-20% To Enemy Fire Resistance
Fire Tree Skill can benefit from here.

- 20% Deadly Strike
Equipped with highlord wrath and critical strike, double dmg. ouchie :)

- Hit Blinds Target
Enemies get blinded and unable to strike back.

- Freezes Target +3
Enemies get frozen with multishot or strafe, awesome!

Before i go on making this runeword, I am curious to find out what are the opinions of you guys regarding the performance and capability of a HoJ? HoJ is definitely looking devastating for PVM. I personally think that the HoJ is slated for the fire tree due to -20% fire resist.

Currently, i have a 4-soc shadow bow. But even so, what bow would you guys choose to make hands of justice? I chose shadow bow because its base speed is 0, instead of hydra which is 10. Need opinion again. :)

My goal is towards PVM. My setup gear is :
mavina helm - 30ias
Highlord wrath -20ias
Hands of Justice -43ias assuming great bow
Chain of Honor Armour \ Engima
Laying of hands -20ias
War Traveller
Nosferatu's Coil - 10ias
Raven frost ring
Rare dual leech ring (7%mana)
Annihilus charm

Tell me what you guys think? Shld I not waste my runes on this if its not worth the effort? However I am really quite enticed by the challenge of making this runeword and the nice mods are pretty asskicking.
 

Omikron8

Diabloii.Net Member
You made a common error on the bow damage calculations. A damage bonus of +330% translates to multiplying the base min or max damage by 4.33 (not 3.33).
This means that applying it to a shadow bow:

15 x 4.33 = 64 min
59 x 4.33 = 255 max

Pretty good damage for a base 0 speed weapon.
 

Broncobiv2

Diabloii.Net Member
Tragics said:
- +33% Increased Attack Speed
If i equipped it into a shadow bow, i can get the equivalent of 43 ias from the bow. Achieving a 9 frame strafe isn't a problem here for me.
...
Currently, i have a 4-soc shadow bow. But even so, what bow would you guys choose to make hands of justice? I chose shadow bow because its base speed is 0, instead of hydra which is 10. Need opinion again. :)
...
Hands of Justice -43ias assuming great bow
Why do you keep saying that if you put HoJ in a bow faster than a hydra, you'll get the equivalent of 10 extra IAS? The base speed of a bow is completely different than the increased attack speed. A jump from a [10] speed bow to a [0] or [-10] will net you a lot more IAS savings than just the 10 or 20 base speed difference.

For instance, to get to 8/2:

Hydra (10 speed) - 147% IAS
Spider (5 speed) - 125% IAS
Shadow (0 speed) - 105% IAS
Great (-10 speed) - 75% IAS

Base speed is not IAS. Look at the difference between Hydra and Great. It's a difference of 20 base speed, but a difference of 72% IAS.
 

Tragics

Diabloii.Net Member
Omikron8 said:
You made a common error on the bow damage calculations. A damage bonus of +330% translates to multiplying the base min or max damage by 4.33 (not 3.33).
This means that applying it to a shadow bow:

15 x 4.33 = 64 min
59 x 4.33 = 255 max

Pretty good damage for a base 0 speed weapon.
Thanks for correcting my error. :)


Broncobiv2 said:
Why do you keep saying that if you put HoJ in a bow faster than a hydra, you'll get the equivalent of 10 extra IAS? The base speed of a bow is completely different than the increased attack speed. A jump from a [10] speed bow to a [0] or [-10] will net you a lot more IAS savings than just the 10 or 20 base speed difference.

For instance, to get to 8/2:

Hydra (10 speed) - 147% IAS
Spider (5 speed) - 125% IAS
Shadow (0 speed) - 105% IAS
Great (-10 speed) - 75% IAS

Base speed is not IAS. Look at the difference between Hydra and Great. It's a difference of 20 base speed, but a difference of 72% IAS.
Broncobiv - Man, haha i didn't know it was completely different, omg a bowazon fan but such a noob. thanks for the highlighting of error, because if what you said is true, then i can free up more ias, weee.

Btw i kept mentioning Great bow, its wrong. I was refering to the shadow bow. ~.~
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
I suggest you take a look at the amazon forum FAQ page 2 to get more broad information on attack speeds.
Regarding the Hand of Justice. I find it a good weapon for both fire and physical damage and it has some nice mods to 'control' the monsters in the game. It's definately worth its runes. A shadow bow will be very nice and if you ever get bored with it a rogue mercenary will still be able to use it.
 

Jek

Diabloii.Net Member
Kirsty said:
I suggest you take a look at the amazon forum FAQ page 2 to get more broad information on attack speeds.
Regarding the Hand of Justice. I find it a good weapon for both fire and physical damage and it has some nice mods to 'control' the monsters in the game. It's definately worth its runes. A shadow bow will be very nice and if you ever get bored with it a rogue mercenary will still be able to use it.
Kirsty you get any experience with a Hand of Justice fire amazon? I need a new project to goof around with. It would seem like the bow could dish some serious fire damage with exploding arrow. :)
 

MorbidDoom

Diabloii.Net Member
Have yet to really test any runeword bow, but HoJ does seem interesting. One proposition I have is to use a Matriachal Bow instead of a Shadow Bow. True, the Mat Bow's avg damage is lower than the Shadow Bow's (by 3.5, not much) but the Mat Bow has a base speed of -10 where as the Shadow Bow is 0. To get a Mat Bow to a 9/2 strafe takes 30% less IAS compared to the Shadow Bow. That means you can chuck that Mav's helm in favor of another helm, and since there are several helms I'd rather have other than Mav's that means a lot to me :) IMO the lower base speed of the Mat Bow over the Shadow is well worth the 3.5 diff (14 diff with 330% ed applied) in the avg damage :)

EDIT: Oh yea, the Mat Bow can have up to +3 to bow and crossbow skills on it, so I would definately go with the Mat Bow over the Shadow.
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
The -20% fire resistance comes in quite handy for the fire skills, but I think the main damage bonus is given to fire arrow. The physical damage of the bow is quite good and the physical to fire damage conversion will be very good and is seriously increased by the -20% enemy fire resistance.
The holy fire damage is nice to add in with your attack and your exploding arrow blast, but it's not comparable to the damage increase a simple kuko shakaku can give to the blast. The -fire resistance makes partially up for that though. I see Hand of Justice as an upgrade to Kuko, but mainly in physical damage and crowd control.
What bow you make it in doesn't really matter all that much.
 

Tragics

Diabloii.Net Member
morbidDoom- Have yet to really test any runeword bow, but HoJ does seem interesting. One proposition I have is to use a Matriachal Bow instead of a Shadow Bow. True, the Mat Bow's avg damage is lower than the Shadow Bow's (by 3.5, not much) but the Mat Bow has a base speed of -10 where as the Shadow Bow is 0. To get a Mat Bow to a 9/2 strafe takes 30% less IAS compared to the Shadow Bow. That means you can chuck that Mav's helm in favor of another helm, and since there are several helms I'd rather have other than Mav's that means a lot to me IMO the lower base speed of the Mat Bow over the Shadow is well worth the 3.5 diff (14 diff with 330% ed applied) in the avg damage

EDIT: Oh yea, the Mat Bow can have up to +3 to bow and crossbow skills on it, so I would definately go with the Mat Bow over the Shadow.
=========================================================
Excellent judgement on maximising the effect. I agree that with up to +3 to bow and crossbow skill, the Matriarchal bow shoots much faster but lets take a look. In my opinion though, grand matron bow dishes out the most damage and has now overtaken shadow bow. Matrichal bow though fast, is somewhat lower dmg than the both when vsing max dmg and if 9/2 can be achieved for each at the end goal, i insist the grand matron bow wins hands down. I like to hear more of your feedback, morbidDoom.

When applied with 330ed, by *4.33 to base dmg then assumed with +3 to bow skill for grand matron and matriarchal bow :

Shadow bow
15 to 59 -> 64 to 255
base speed 10

Grand Matron bow (awesome!!)
14 to 72 -> 60 to 311
base speed 10
+3 to bow and crossbow skill

Matriarchal Bow
20 to 47 -> 86 to 203
base speed -10
+3 to bow and crossbow skill

Kuko Shakaku Cedar Bow
+150-180% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Fires Explosive Arrows Or Bolts [Level 7]
Piercing Attack (50)
Adds 40-180 Fire Damage
+3 To Immolation Arrow
+3 To Bow And Crossbow Skills

kristy - I see Hand of Justice as an upgrade to Kuko, but mainly in physical damage and crowd control. What bow you make it in doesn't really matter all that much.
=========================================================
Comparing between the shadow bow and Grand matron bow further now, the matron bow increases quite higher with an additional +3 to bow skills and an extra 56 dmg vs shadow bow.

Hence, my analysis is grand matron bow is now the king bow to make a HoJ. I welcome more feedbacks about HoJ.
 

MorbidDoom

Diabloii.Net Member
Tragics said:
morbidDoom- Have yet to really test any runeword bow, but HoJ does seem interesting. One proposition I have is to use a Matriachal Bow instead of a Shadow Bow. True, the Mat Bow's avg damage is lower than the Shadow Bow's (by 3.5, not much) but the Mat Bow has a base speed of -10 where as the Shadow Bow is 0. To get a Mat Bow to a 9/2 strafe takes 30% less IAS compared to the Shadow Bow. That means you can chuck that Mav's helm in favor of another helm, and since there are several helms I'd rather have other than Mav's that means a lot to me IMO the lower base speed of the Mat Bow over the Shadow is well worth the 3.5 diff (14 diff with 330% ed applied) in the avg damage

EDIT: Oh yea, the Mat Bow can have up to +3 to bow and crossbow skills on it, so I would definately go with the Mat Bow over the Shadow.
=========================================================
Excellent judgement on maximising the effect. I agree that with up to +3 to bow and crossbow skill, the Matriarchal bow shoots much faster but lets take a look. In my opinion though, grand matron bow dishes out the most damage and has now overtaken shadow bow. Matrichal bow though fast, is somewhat lower dmg than the both when vsing max dmg and if 9/2 can be achieved for each at the end goal, i insist the grand matron bow wins hands down. I like to hear more of your feedback, morbidDoom.

When applied with 330ed, by *4.33 to base dmg then assumed with +3 to bow skill for grand matron and matriarchal bow :

Shadow bow
15 to 59 -> 64 to 255
base speed 10

Grand Matron bow (awesome!!)
14 to 72 -> 60 to 311
base speed 10
+3 to bow and crossbow skill

Matriarchal Bow
20 to 47 -> 86 to 203
base speed -10
+3 to bow and crossbow skill

Kuko Shakaku Cedar Bow
+150-180% Enhanced Damage (varies)
Fires Explosive Arrows Or Bolts [Level 7]
Piercing Attack (50)
Adds 40-180 Fire Damage
+3 To Immolation Arrow
+3 To Bow And Crossbow Skills

kristy - I see Hand of Justice as an upgrade to Kuko, but mainly in physical damage and crowd control. What bow you make it in doesn't really matter all that much.
=========================================================
Comparing between the shadow bow and Grand matron bow further now, the matron bow increases quite higher with an additional +3 to bow skills and an extra 56 dmg vs shadow bow.

Hence, my analysis is grand matron bow is now the king bow to make a HoJ. I welcome more feedbacks about HoJ.
Grand Matron average damage: 185.5
Matriarchal Bow average damage: 144.5
Difference: 41

I dunno about you, but an average dmg difference of 41 is very, very small. At best it would probably only have an unnoticeable affect on overall killing speed. However, the Mat Bow only needs 42% more IAS to reach 8/2, where as the Matron needs 114% more IAS to reach 8/2. The Mat Bow allows quite a bit more flexibility when it comes to equipment selection and that's rather important to me, especially considering the only disadvantage is a very meager difference in average damage.

My analysis is that it's a toss up. Want more equipment flexibility? Go with a Mat Bow. Don't care about equipment flexibility? Take a Grand Matron. I dunno, I personally would say Matriarchal Bow is best, but to each their own.
 

HardyZ

Diabloii.Net Member
Tragics said:
Shadow bow
15 to 59 -> 64 to 255
base speed 10

Grand Matron bow (awesome!!)
14 to 72 -> 60 to 311
base speed 10
+3 to bow and crossbow skill

Shadow bow is base speed 0, and not 10, so maybe the comparison between shadow and grand matron should get some nuance ;)

(maybe the very low str req on shadow too (52), as opposed to grand matron (108), should also be factored in)


and i'd personally also consider the diamond bow as a 0 speed bow for that runeword, as i personally love the high min dmg on it, but that's a matter of taste.
(diamond bows also have 4 sockets max, so getting a superior one for the runeword is more easier, as a plain superior one would get the ideal number of sockets. It might not seem to be much, but well, 15%ed is still 15%ed) :D
 

Tragics

Diabloii.Net Member
HardyZ said:
Shadow bow is base speed 0, and not 10, so maybe the comparison between shadow and grand matron should get some nuance ;)

(maybe the very low str req on shadow too (52), as opposed to grand matron (108), should be factored in)


and i'd personally also consider the diamond bow as a 0 speed bow for that runeword, as i personally love the high min dmg on it, but that's a matter of taste.
(diamond bows also have 4 sockets max, so getting a superior one for the runeword is more easier, as a plain superior one would get the ideal number of sockets. It might not seem to be much, but well, 15%ed is still 15%ed) :D
Argh sorry typo error on the shadow bow.
 

Tragics

Diabloii.Net Member
MorbidDoom said:
Grand Matron average damage: 185.5
Matriarchal Bow average damage: 144.5
Difference: 41

I dunno about you, but an average dmg difference of 41 is very, very small. At best it would probably only have an unnoticeable affect on overall killing speed. However, the Mat Bow only needs 42% more IAS to reach 8/2, where as the Matron needs 114% more IAS to reach 8/2. The Mat Bow allows quite a bit more flexibility when it comes to equipment selection and that's rather important to me, especially considering the only disadvantage is a very meager difference in average damage.

My analysis is that it's a toss up. Want more equipment flexibility? Go with a Mat Bow. Don't care about equipment flexibility? Take a Grand Matron. I dunno, I personally would say Matriarchal Bow is best, but to each their own.
I have to eat back my words. Realized that matron bow is 10 and shadow is 0 base speed. If i equipp on a matron bow(finding 4 sock is difficult too) I'll have to sacrifice flexibility.
 

Snarlin Stef

Diabloii.Net Member
Tragics said:
I have to eat back my words. Realized that matron bow is 10 and shadow is 0 base speed. If i equipp on a matron bow(finding 4 sock is difficult too) I'll have to sacrifice flexibility.
matron bow is pretty fast right?
maybe that is a good option?
demon limb on the weapon switch to crank out some more fire dmg and godly AR too perhaps? :)

dunno just kinda throwin some ideas out.
thnx
stef
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
Grand Matron Bow is the slowest type of bow, so generally I don't use that for any runeword. You need quite an amount of IAS to get it to a nice breakpoint and I detest focusing my gear on IAS since it's all so restrictive in the end and I can't come up with some additional theme. Therefore I always pick 0 speed or -10 speed, but that's personal preference of course. You can go any which way you prefer.

In most cases I also prefer non-amazon specific bows in most cases because that can allow you to use it with other classes and on rogue mercenaries. Rangers, Hunters, Enchantresses.... the likes, I play them often so availability of my bows between classes is something I grade high for myself. For optimising damage and stats for an amazon though, often a grand matron or matriarchal bow will be best due to the possibility of +3 bowskills.
Melody is an example where I do prefer an amazon specific bow.
 

brainfloss

Diabloii.Net Member
I would have thought that Call To Arms would be a lot better for an (elemental arrow) 'zon than Hand Of Justice, for the following reasons:

- CTA has native +1 to all skills, effectively +2 with Battle Command
- Battle Orders, 'nuff said; don't forget it boosts mana too, letting you fire more freezing/immolation arrows before having to use a secondary skill
- A little more IAS than HoJ
- A little less damage, but much easier to get the runes
- Life Replenish - every little bit helps
- A little easier to get a 5-socket mat. bow than a 4-socket one

To me, HoJ just doesn't look good enough for the rarity of its runes - it only really increases damage for the fire tree, and IIRC freexe target and blind don't work that well on bows anyway - perhaps someone else could clear this up?
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
Freeze and blind will work quite well with bows eventhough the effectiveness is reduced. The big determinant is character-monster level differences. The best ways to apply them are strafe and multiple shot with a nice pierce percentage.
 

Tragics

Diabloii.Net Member
Hi brainfloss, I disagree with CTA being better. In my opinion. Botd and HoJ is probably the only runewords worth making off a bow.

- CTA has native +1 to all skills, effectively +2 with Battle Command
A bowazon does not need +skills to shine or require skills to be as dependant as a sorc. My ideal amazon is one which wishes to focus on crowd control features(such as freeze target, ITD), damage and accuracy. Even with life improvement, yes it helps alot but however if your skillful enough with decoy/valk placement, know when to park behind and run... life and mana improvement aren't necessary. Its true you can shoot off more freezing or immolation arrows but mana leech and mana potions will suffice when i apply strafe. CTA bow loses totally in terms of damage, crowd control and features to the HoJ bow. :)

- A little more IAS than HoJ
That's not the key concern here. I choose my bows that can eventually achieve 9/2.

- A little less damage, but much easier to get the runes
Yep. CTA is easier.

- Life Replenish - every little bit helps
True it helps, but its not as enticing. I am sufficient with good life leeches, rej and life potions.

- A little easier to get a 5-socket mat. bow than a 4-socket one
Ill leave this at that.

- To me, HoJ just doesn't look good enough for the rarity of its runes - it only really increases damage for the fire tree, and IIRC freexe target and blind don't work that well on bows anyway - perhaps someone else could clear this up?

I was interested to see and try for myself the special features of the bow instead of the brute physical damage that windforce or Botd can provide. This means I want to see if the useful features could break even or outshine in some way with the larger damage employed by wf and botd.

Freeze Target, ITD and Hit blinds target is taken from the website. It works best with strafe or multishot.
==========================================================

Hit Blinds Target
Decreases radius of awareness similar to the Necromancer Curse: Dim Vision.
The formula is as follows:

Chance = 50 + (Attacker Level + (Bonus * 4) - Defender Level) * 5
Where the bonus is how many items of hit blinds target the character has -1. Some items have something like hit blinds target +2, which means they count as 2 items for the bonus calculation. Missile Attacks are at 1/3 this chance.

The level of Dim Vision that's cast on the target is equal to (Chance - Roll)/5+1, max of 20.
==========================================================
Ignores Target Defense (Armor Class)
This ability will not work on Unique Monsters, Super Unique Monsters, Hirelings, other players, and Act-end bosses.

What the game does is that set the Defensive Rating of the target to 0. That means it simplifies to:

AR = 100 * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)

AR = Attack Rating; alvl = Level of Attacker; dlvl = Level of Defender.

So there is still an effect of the level difference on the chance to hit and there is still a minimum of 5% and a maximum of 95% chance to hit.
==========================================================
Hit Freezes Target
This bonus is pretty obvious. Items with Hit Freezes Target has a chance to Freeze Targets. Formulae:

The chance of freezing is 50 + (AL + (B*4) - DL) * 5
AL = attacker level
DL = defender level
B = freeze bonus from item (default is 1)

if it's ranged, the AL has a -6 penalty.
if it's ranged, the chance is divided by 3

freeze length = (chance - roll) * 2 + 25 frames
with a minimum length of 25 frames (1 second) and a maximum length of 250 frames (10 seconds)
 
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