Hammerdin to Run Baal...max Holy Bolt instead of Holy Shield?

testyfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Title says it all. I've been toying with the idea of an untwinked 99 character for a bit. I've got a few in the 80s, but nothing I've committed to far enough to actually post in the thread. One thing that I'm thinking about is that I would want to level for the last stretch at Nilly or Baal, but not Diablo. I'd rather that my final target have the possibility of dropping any item in the game, hence I'd rather leave Big D out of the running.

I know that D was the most efficient for hammerdins (or at least reported to be), but I was wondering if Holy Bolt could be used to help kill Baal's second wave rather than making the merc do it with only aura support. Seems like even with a modest number of points invested you can get a decent damage amount, but I'd need to take the points from Holy Shield to do it. Has anyone used a hammerdin to do Baal runs solo post 1.13? The forum search function failed me, but I'm sure the topic has been covered before. If there's a link to a discussion, I'd be happy to read.

Thanks!
 

Ultimatium

Diabloii.Net Member
If you equip your mercenary with insight, you should be able to spam holy bolt as much as you want. I'm not sure if this is a more efficient way of getting rid of the unravelers, but it's worth a try, since waiting for your mercenary to get rid of them for you is rather boring.
 
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CaseyJones

Diabloii.Net Member
Another option is to switch to a black flail and use the CE charges on the skeles your hammers kill and each time the merc kills a mummy. And keep holy shield.

Don't make it in a superior base, just a regular flail to keep costs down on repairing the charges.

Another option is to wear 3 pc trangs and have 1 hard point in conviction. Switch to conviction and lay down some firewalls on the mummies

I guess that doesn't answer your question...if you have enigma, play like a sorc(tele away from melee) and you probably don't need the extra block chance and defense so max holy bolt.
 

testyfish

Diabloii.Net Member
That all makes a ton of sense. I like having the holy bolt to help kill the bosspack. The other advantage is that I can swap to redemption for that pack since nothing boosts holy bolt damage anyway. It'll be a tradeoff with merc damage though, so I'll have to do some investigation into Might v. Holy Freeze merc for both with and without maxed aura from the hammerdin.
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Holy bolt wave 2 works well but isnt very fast. I think 1 point zeal with grief in the cube is faster, but slow enough either way that you would likely be doing wave 2 on lower psetting. And wave 2 is actually a significant portion of the exp in a p8/p3 baal run. That being said I'm sure it would feel fine till like 96, so you can always just go for it and reevaluate after things get too slow. Also during CS runs pre-98 you often kill a fair number of boss packs that can drop every item in the game. But I definitely say just try it out and let us know how it goes! Can always change strategies later.
 

testyfish

Diabloii.Net Member
The uniques in the CS drop everything, but seal bosses, Diablo, and champ packs do not, correct?
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
Correct. I think there is one small charm affix which requires nilly or baal, not diablo. One of the big elemental ones. That's the ONLY thing you'll be 100% denied doing hell CS + diablo.
 

testyfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Alright, just to be clear: The fact that De Seis, Infector, and Grand Vizier are listed as mlvl ** and dropping up to Zod on various sites means that Uniques in the CS (drop till **), champions in the CS (drop up to 87), De Seis, Infector, and Grand Vizier can ALL drop ANY item...but Diablo himself can't?

..that just seems weird. Do they all drop better than D himself? Are there other special restrictions like with Pindle, for instance?
 

WoRG

Diabloii.Net Member
It's because of treasure classes... De Seis, Infector, Vizier, and Diablo are limited to TC84 in their drop tables, while champion and unique Oblivion Knights, Storm Casters, and Venom Lords in Chaos Sanctuary can drop up to TC87.

All of the above (actually, any mob in Chaos Sanctuary) can drop Zod...

As for dropping better than Diablo? Well, he drops up to 6 items, with high odds of unique/set/rare...but can never drop TC87 items, so it just depends on what you're looking for.

WoRG
 
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testyfish

Diabloii.Net Member
Alright, I knew I was remembering something about the super uniques not dropping everything, but that's good to confirm the champs and uniques. I figured they were standard alvl 85 fare.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
It's because of treasure classes... De Seis, Infector, Vizier, and Diablo are limited to TC84 in their drop tables, while champion and unique Oblivion Knights, Storm Casters, and Venom Lords in Chaos Sanctuary can drop up to TC87.
De Seis, Infector and Vizier are actually limited to TC78 but their minions can drop anything.
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
No, that is incorrect. I don't know of a single case post 1.10 where minions can drop higher than their owner.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
From what I can tell the minions drop from their respective monster TCs which upgrade to the highest possible TC since the minions have monster level 88.

This should already be known though: didn't people get TC87 stuff while running Snipsnap a few years back (@ffs maybe?) and mistook it for a Snipsnap drop even though it came from minions?
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah im nearly 100% on this. I know one guy who de seis's minions dropped griffons, and that video i posted in my snapchip article has a guy testing the treasure class of snapchip.
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
Hmm... could be random monster (not minion) dropping griffons. But TC 78 for seal bosses is plain wrong. Should be TC 84 as I have gotten tal armor from them.
 

Luhkoh

Diabloii.Net Member
Yeah I think theres a tc upgrade that happens there, but I'm too lazy to look it up right now. But I'm pretty dang sure the minions can drop any item. If I'm wrong though, I definitely want to know.
 

art_vandelay

Diabloii.Net Member
So here's how I deducted it:
  • In 'superuniques.txt' the Vizier and Infector are assigned the TC 'Act 4 (H) Super B' while de Seis is assigned the TC 'Act 4 (H) Super C'.
  • These TCs are in group 18 and have a level of 84 and 87 respectively while the three seal bosses all have a level of 85+3.
  • The next highest TC after 'Act 4 (H) Super C' is 'Act 5 (H) Super A' with a level of 90. Thus de Seis doesn't upgrade his TC while the other two get their TC upgraded to 'Act 4 (H) Super C'.
  • Now 'Act 4 (H) Super C' does two drops from 'Act 4 (H) Uitem B' which in turn has a chance to drop an item from 'Act 4 (H) Equip B'.
  • The highest TCs in 'Act 4 (H) Equip B' are 'armo78' and 'weap78' which contain armor and weapons of qlvls 76, 77 and 78. (of course it can also drop lower stuff)
Fruit told me that only the first TC that is called on monster death gets an upgrade so I take that for granted here. (Otherwise the Uitem and Equip TCs would also upgrade and in this case here that would give the seal bosses the chance to drop TC87)
 

helvete

Diabloii.Net Member
Great, but wrong. Don't know exactly where it went wrong, but those look more like the drops of meph. Both silospen and atma dropcalcs say armo84 and weap84 are possible from seal bosses
 
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