Hacks, the truth

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

The thing with private servers would be that they'd have to protect themselves from hacks. Over Bnet, Blizz would have staff catching things as they happen.


And nothing is unhackable, but it can be countered and blocked. I'd rather have it checked and only see a few rather than unchecked and have every game full of them.
 

ThulRasha

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Im pretty sure we wont see as much hacking in d3 as we have and still do in d2, simply because of my experience with WoW where its vary litle hacking close to none !
There has been (and still is) quite a lot of hacking in WoW. It's done a lot by people who don't care about their account.
An example is the spammers teleporting to main cities and jumping impossibly high into the air.
Another example is people mining and gathering from under the game world.

Blizzard does investigate reports about the hackers in WoW and bans the users (now and then, sometimes with months in between unfortunately), so the only people who dare use these kind of hacks are the ones that don't care if they lose their characters.


 

Deceit

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Its been many years since I actually posted here but I'll let some old cats out of the bag, since it seems some of you aren't aware of how these items came about.

Iths, Raven Spirals, Originally duped Sojs, Hexes, White Rings all came from Open Battle.net originally. Once on closed several different dupe methods were used to clone these items. There was the gold drop dupe, the overflow dupe, speed trade dupe, and various other methods out there at the time.

These, like a majority of the other cheat programs you have listed, won't happen in the same way again. They are going to have to be completely redeveloped using new holes in the game coding and anti-cheat systems. D2 is ancient, Starcraft is ancient, and as a result they were much more vulnerable since they were not built from the ground up with cheat/import detection in mind.

Chicken & Maphack will likely come about again. Chicken probably won't work so well, unless there are invulnerability or high absorption spells/potions/abilities in the game since most MMOs/Online games now have a delay between disconnect and avatar removal. Maphack will live again, in various formats. However, expect these programs to be very restricted and behind closed doors until someone comes along and develops one for the sole purpose of getting notoriety/cash.

Is it just me or does maphack not really fit in that list?

With standard maphack the advantage wasn't that big, it just showed you where to go and comparing that to teleporting trying to find where to go it only saved you a few seconds while as the other ones list gave abusers a HUGE advantage. I'm specifically saying standard maphack because I've never tried anything else, the second I read things about seeing mobs/projectiles/... I didn't even bother downloading.
In my mind any unfair advantage is intolerable. I memorized every Meph, Baal, Pindle, Andy map and could usually beat the MHers to the portal location or get there just after them. Knowing where walls were in D2, where mob packs were located, allowed for very specialized game play. It let one use the environment as their buffer in PvP and gave you opportunities to escape in PvE. This goes double for hardcore modes.

BUT, there are private servers in WoW, and legend has it that hacks and stuff roam free in WoW in those private servers...

Of course that shouldn't bother too much to regular D3 players, but, I'm just pointing out there WILL be private servers, there WILL be hacks, there WILL be piracy, etc...

It's a shame that those that pay for the game suffer the consequences (like no-lan) for Blizzard is fighting a battle they might as well not win...
Make no mistake: No LAN was done specifically to control the tournaments. Why? Because you can just modify the server directory to act as a LAN or to any private server you wish so long as you have a sever to emulate the B.net servers.

Edit: I was primarily talking about Starcraft 2 when it comes to the LAN changes. The same may apply to D3 depending on whether or not they develop a circuit for the game. I imagine they'll try to.



 
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Leugi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Make no mistake: No LAN was done specifically to control the tournaments. Why? Because you can just modify the server directory to act as a LAN or to any private server you wish so long as you have a sever to emulate the B.net servers.
And I assure you, private servers will anyways exist... And of course in those servers hacks and other exploits are likely to exist too...

I'm just saying that those that do pay the game lose way more than they could win with some of these stuff... No LAN is really a sad thing...


 

The Lich

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I haven't tried Starcraft II, do you think there are also other hacks such as disconnection hack? I can remember Warcraft III having pubilc disconnection hack for early versions of the game (like pre 1.05) as well as public maphacks that lasted a bit longer. However hacking online was much more risky then Diablo II was, probably because it's much more obvious in a game like WC or SC when you hack (in the face of your opponent).

Anyway, that still means that B.Net 2.0 doesn't have much better hack defenses then Warcraft III was at its release. Sadly, we shouldn't expect much for our DIII... unless they prove this wrong... or will they?
When you look at Stacraft II beta agreement, it says that you allow blizzard to look at your RAM for third party programs.

They will probably do the same with D3.


 

ThulRasha

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

When you look at Stacraft II beta agreement, it says that you allow blizzard to look at your RAM for third party programs.

They will probably do the same with D3.
Looking at RAM does not magically solve cheaters. If Blizzard does not know what to look for, then they won't find it.


 

TheMythe

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I have 1 way of completely getting rid of maphacking.

Just don't implement any form of map at all in D3.
Pros:
*No maphack possibility. (big issue)
*Less data sent through server/client. (little issue)
*An exciting adventure game STAYS an exciting adventure game. (big issue)
*Areas are build randomly with random mobs so exploring will stay forever. (big issue)
*Braintraining, you need to remember where you went and where you need to go. (little issue)

Cons:
*? Give it all you got folks.

I mean really, if compared to mideval times (without the magical setting), who really had a map that contains ALL?

Shut the entire M(ap)-key down is my humble opinion.
 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

You can't possibly not have a map.


The issue with maphack was that D2 had to handle things on client side as well. It's no longer required, so will eliminate maphacking. To put it in perspective, it's like how Uber's stats are stored and we have no access to them, but we can see the rest of the monsters.
 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

The game has to have some way to know where things are. You can randomly generate extra add ons or some areas, but you will get no where. You cannot do quests in that environment.


Since we will, we won't be seeing that random generation. They will have preset maps with chest / boss / exit locations. To prevent map hack, it is all handled server side.
 

Thecla

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I am trying a little risky thread here. I mean to talk about how hacks were seen by Blizzard so ...Blizz are actually doing just a superficial fight agaisnt hacks. They always say that they cared and showed banning results, we can't deny that. But it's not actually doing anything really good, beside increasing sales (which I can understand why they go this way).
I absolutely agree --- the thing that most annoyed me about Bliz's approach to D2 was the introduction of superpowerful rune words (and to a lesser extent uniques) in an environment where they were impossible/difficult to obtain without dupes/cheats. That was nothing more or less than Blizzard pandering to the GPoW/obszod/KSoH using population of D1, albeit it a slightly more controlled way i.e. duped/hacked outfits became "expensive" instead of commonplace.

We will probably get something inbetween Diablo II and WoW hacking care for Diablo III... but how much?:scratchchin:
I do think it'll be a lot better in DIII --- everyone, including Bliz, has come a long way since then in managing security. Not that there won't be holes, but I'm optimistic that the basic structure will be secure enough to plug them, unlike the leaky sieve that was DII.


 

BobCox2

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

It all depends, if the code has hacks built in it by the programmers it's a cheat but not really a hack to use it.
and it will get out.

Does DIII have testing cheat codes?
Sounds like it'sserver side if it there.
Dii had all kinds of bugs via the client side for things.
 

Nefai

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

My biggest problem with Blizzard's approach to cheaters is that they inevitably screw over legit players while not making it any more difficult for the cheaters.

MH makes Meph runs too easy? Let's make Durance 2 HUGE. Yay, now it takes MH users 3 seconds longer to get there. It takes legits 3 minutes longer.

Too many bots? Lets give temp bans for repeated actions, joining too many games, etc. This was just stupid. A bot doesn't notice time passing, can easily delay actions, easily ensure they don't go over the game limit, etc. The people getting screwed are the legits muling. Now I have to purposely go slowly when I mule when all I want to do is quit and rejoin asap so the game doesn't poof before I grab my loot. At best, this feature temp bans a bot that doesn't notice or care. At worst, it bans legit players.

Dupe poofing. Yay for the economy, but again, the legits take the hit. The duper couldn't care less if his duped items poof. The guy who traded legit stuff he found himself for items that end up being dupes and poofing is the one who gets screwed over.
 

nurman

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I don't mind MapHack really. Sure, it is very cheap and all, but atleast the player does the teleporting and the work. With a bot, the douche just leaves his computer on over the night and BAM 67 HR's
 

ThulRasha

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I don't mind MapHack really. Sure, it is very cheap and all, but atleast the player does the teleporting and the work. With a bot, the douche just leaves his computer on over the night and BAM 67 HR's
It did promote this playstyle tho and helped to keep this xp rushing popular instead of people actually playing the game.


 

Gamekk

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

My biggest problem with Blizzard's approach to cheaters is that they inevitably screw over legit players while not making it any more difficult for the cheaters.

MH makes Meph runs too easy? Let's make Durance 2 HUGE. Yay, now it takes MH users 3 seconds longer to get there. It takes legits 3 minutes longer.

Too many bots? Lets give temp bans for repeated actions, joining too many games, etc. This was just stupid. A bot doesn't notice time passing, can easily delay actions, easily ensure they don't go over the game limit, etc. The people getting screwed are the legits muling. Now I have to purposely go slowly when I mule when all I want to do is quit and rejoin asap so the game doesn't poof before I grab my loot. At best, this feature temp bans a bot that doesn't notice or care. At worst, it bans legit players.

Dupe poofing. Yay for the economy, but again, the legits take the hit. The duper couldn't care less if his duped items poof. The guy who traded legit stuff he found himself for items that end up being dupes and poofing is the one who gets screwed over.
Yea, it's a real joke. Devs don't play the game. Or at least, they beat it in normal mode, and don't understand our point of view at all. That's how life is.

Botting, is a good way to get rid of realm downs if you know what you're doing.


 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

And we're given indication that devs don't play games because...?
 

TheMythe

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

They spend too much time buildiing them for us, so they don't have any time left to play for themselves.
 

valeo

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I have to admit - I loved the map hack in D2. I didn't use it until i'd played the game through about 10-15 times but after that it helped remove some of the tediousness.

Would be interesting to find out how many people used it at some stage.

I will also admit to botting in the last couple of months that I played - just wanted to see what the fuss about. To be honest, it was more effort to set up than actually doing 10000 Baal runs yourself.

Never did anything to directly grief other players, though, which imo are the bigger issues when it comes to 'hacking'


They spend too much time buildiing them for us, so they don't have any time left to play for themselves.
When you spend 3+ years on anything you're normally sick of it by the end!


 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

They spend too much time buildiing them for us, so they don't have any time left to play for themselves.
How do you think they build it in the first place? Besides, even Blizzard employees have to debug the game. Some just take hours...with multiple chars...at home :D


 
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