Hacks, the truth

Gamekk

Diabloii.Net Member
Hacks, the truth

I am trying a little risky thread here. I mean to talk about how hacks were seen by Blizzard so far, following the last massive ban message from them. They never denied the truth, they just don't talk about it. However, I witnessed (maybe you also did) the way hacks were influencing the gameplay of Diablo II over the years, and it has nothing good to pretend that Blizzard does a very good job about hackers (for Diablo II b.net closed).

Blizz are actually doing just a superficial fight agaisnt hacks. They always say that they cared and showed banning results, we can't deny that. But it's not actually doing anything really good, beside increasing sales (which I can understand why they go this way).

Since Diablo II is out, they never said it would be a hack-free environement or made any promises about it. Therefore, hacking (on Diablo II b.net closed) is risky but doesn't always result as a ban and often, you can keep hacking for months (sometimes years) before being caught in the massive ban, which might even happen when you are retired, months, years ago. I do not mean that anybody can start hacking and has a fair chance to be caught. In fact many new hackers get caught the first time. However, there is always a certain percent of people playing with hacks, ruining everybody's experience.

The major hacks that affected (and affects) the gameplay of Diablo II (B.Net closed) which were out there for years (sometimes patched) used by a variety of of players include the following :

-Closed dupes were almost always there (ruining especially runes currency value)
-Item generators (bugged items = hacked duped items -ITH, whites, occy rings, etc. - before the rust storm happened)
-Bots (spammers, item finders, levelers)
-Maphacks (sometimes with monsters showing on your minimap - very useful for grinding exp)
-Chicken run (exits game on low HP)
-TPPK
-Various bugs like Godmod (from an infinite full rejuv spamming every hit you take), skills multiplicators (skill levels reaching up to level 100, 500...). Those 2 previous hacks might have lasted for years.

Those are just the most common hacks there were over the years, because there are MANY others. Many of those were patched, but patching a maphack just made another new maphack available. These hacks are just some that I witnessed and sometimes experienced myself. Blizz job so far was to shut down any major hack, such as a public dupe or server crashers. Their last message was kind of hiding the truth that the actual Diablo II environment is still poisoned by maphacks, bots, bots and bots. I am a causual player, playing often on ladder resets and what makes to stop playing, is every time I get to grind baal for exp in hell, I get realm downs. Realm downs are such a thing that shuts your connexion to B.Net for a random amount of time (15 min-12 hours like) because you did repetitive actions, like a bot would. They made me stop to grind exp legitly, but not to bot (item finding) sucessfully for at least 3 different times with at least 1 year inbetween), which always made me give up the game, about a week after. (I'm a true addict so I always come back).

Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with Diablo III so far, because DII is indeed a decade+ older. The quality expected from games in 2010 are really different then 10 years ago. They showed that they can handle hacks in WoW pretty well, however a MMORPG with monthly fees. We will probably get something inbetween Diablo II and WoW hacking care for Diablo III... but how much?:scratchchin:
 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Hmm...How much would be tricky to say. With WoW, we can get the idea that it's a money maker and thus can have a team of people who can actively counter hacks when they pop up. Inevitably, they will once someone finds and refines another method to hack. Unfortunately, nothing is truly unhackable, and it requires constant attention.


For D3 (and probably SC2), the new Battle.Net at least shows they're looking into a new network and with focus, likely a team to monitor it. We just don't have any info on this proposed team or the level they would take an anti-hack approach.



I can definitely see how it'd be in between D2 and WoW, especially if the subscription is the dividing factor. Still, hopefully more than what D2 got.
 

Leugi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Hacks and piracy will never be over. Of course some good strategies can vastly reduce the ammount of hack... But there will always be ways to hack, there is no perfect system.

But yeah, we can only hope Blizz new games that are not WoW get a nice anti-hack treatment.
 

ThulRasha

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

About new battle.net.

I'm a bit disappointed of the map hackers in starcraft 2 beta already. I would have hoped that a new battle.net system could prevent this, or that the game would be set up in a way to not send fog hidden unit information to all players.
 

Gamekk

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

About new battle.net.

I'm a bit disappointed of the map hackers in starcraft 2 beta already. I would have hoped that a new battle.net system could prevent this, or that the game would be set up in a way to not send fog hidden unit information to all players.
I haven't tried Starcraft II, do you think there are also other hacks such as disconnection hack? I can remember Warcraft III having pubilc disconnection hack for early versions of the game (like pre 1.05) as well as public maphacks that lasted a bit longer. However hacking online was much more risky then Diablo II was, probably because it's much more obvious in a game like WC or SC when you hack (in the face of your opponent).

Anyway, that still means that B.Net 2.0 doesn't have much better hack defenses then Warcraft III was at its release. Sadly, we shouldn't expect much for our DIII... unless they prove this wrong... or will they?


 

Dahmer

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Is it just me or does maphack not really fit in that list?

With standard maphack the advantage wasn't that big, it just showed you where to go and comparing that to teleporting trying to find where to go it only saved you a few seconds while as the other ones list gave abusers a HUGE advantage. I'm specifically saying standard maphack because I've never tried anything else, the second I read things about seeing mobs/projectiles/... I didn't even bother downloading.
 

ThulRasha

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I haven't tried Starcraft II, do you think there are also other hacks such as disconnection hack?
Some people claim to be disconnected and crashed to desktop at suspicious timing, but that may still be coincidence. It is after all a beta, so there could be other reasons for a crash to desktop.
In any case, reports of being disconnected are not as widely spread as the map hack reports. The latter is actually proven by sharing of replays.

I can remember Warcraft III having pubilc disconnection hack for early versions of the game (like pre 1.05) as well as public maphacks that lasted a bit longer. However hacking online was much more risky then Diablo II was, probably because it's much more obvious in a game like WC or SC when you hack (in the face of your opponent).
Yes, that is the good news. It is very risky and even more so in Starcraft2 because the replays now actually records the camera position of a player. So when someone is using a maphack and you will look at his pov in the replay then you will see that he is staring at the fog of war continuesly. This way it's easy to prove when someone is map hacking.
Sadly Diablo3 will not have replays. (at least I doubt it will)

Anyway, that still means that B.Net 2.0 doesn't have much better hack defenses then Warcraft III was at its release. Sadly, we shouldn't expect much for our DIII... unless they prove this wrong... or will they?
That is also what disappointed me. I would have hoped that B.Net 2.0 had some better defenses.


 

ThulRasha

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Is it just me or does maphack not really fit in that list?

With standard maphack the advantage wasn't that big, it just showed you where to go and comparing that to teleporting trying to find where to go it only saved you a few seconds while as the other ones list gave abusers a HUGE advantage. I'm specifically saying standard maphack because I've never tried anything else, the second I read things about seeing mobs/projectiles/... I didn't even bother downloading.
Map hack speeds up boss runs by quite a bit. Since this is a game where items make the economy and where you need to do a lot of runs to get items, you can savely say that map hacks are a factor in "upsetting" the economy.
So yes, map hack does fit in the list.
The other hacks are just more "evil" :p


 

phaolo

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Till now I've always played SP due to the fear of hacks and connection problems.
With D3 it would be nice to finally switch to MP!
It's fundamental, however, to know if the new D3 system will be stronger than before. There's no point of playing online if the competition is not well regulated!
 

mephiztophelez

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

it's worth remembering that when D2 was originally coded up, the designers had to allow for the fact that a 56k dialup connection was about the best available for internet links at the time.

hence, a lot of D2 stuff is done Client side rather than Server side. this is inherantly insecure and a lot easier to hack than when most game calculations are done server side. examples include MapHack (the entire act map downloads to your machine when you enter a new act, the maphack just reads the allegedly invisible sections once it's downloaded to your drive) and TMC (which buggerises around with actual sprite animation sequences to acheive it's nefarious ends).

unfortunatly, fixing these issues with D2 basically involves a wholesale re-write of the code from scratch.

hopefully, D3 will be a lot more secure. the whole bnet server architecture is being upgraded for "Battle.Net 2.0"

personally, i would have NO objections to having to pay a modest monthly/yearly fee for bnet access. so long as such a fee meant that Blizzard would activly eliminate hacks and hackers from the realms.

i'm sure retards will try to hack D3. i just hope that this time Blizzard will activly do something about it.

Is it just me or does maphack not really fit in that list?

With standard maphack the advantage wasn't that big, it just showed you where to go and comparing that to teleporting trying to find where to go it only saved you a few seconds while as the other ones list gave abusers a HUGE advantage. I'm specifically saying standard maphack because I've never tried anything else, the second I read things about seeing mobs/projectiles/... I didn't even bother downloading.
whatever you feel about it, it's a damn hack whichever way you look at it.

it gives a huge advantage to it's users.

MapHack is actually one of the very few examples of Blizzard actually doing something concrete about it.

they sent their "Men-In-Black" around to Mousepad's* house armed with Cease And Desist court orders

*note: Mousepad was a well known D2 hacker who SOLD copies of his maphacks to many, many people. similarly, njaguar from the massivly retarded JSP activly SOLD copies of his hack, the D2 Java Script Parser (ever wondered what JSP actually stood for? there you go, it stands for a HACK). although i'm not 100% certain that Blizzard ever sent lawyers around to Taulborg's house. i hope they did.



 

Gamekk

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

personally, i would have NO objections to having to pay a modest monthly/yearly fee for bnet access. so long as such a fee meant that Blizzard would activly eliminate hacks and hackers from the realms.
Amen.

*note: Mousepad was a well known D2 hacker who SOLD copies of his maphacks to many, many people. similarly, njaguar from the massivly retarded JSP activly SOLD copies of his hack, the D2 Java Script Parser (ever wondered what JSP actually stood for? there you go, it stands for a HACK). although i'm not 100% certain that Blizzard ever sent lawyers around to Taulborg's house. i hope they did.
Yes, indeed, D2JSP or Diablo II JavaScriPt was a bot available to public. Now they're still making money out of incredibly lame and aberrant "fg". This makes a HUGE impact of the online gameplay. Fortenately, Bashiok already said how they would manage that by just making a better trade and currency system so that people won't need to invest in JSP and that maybe only 1% of the DIII population used to trade with fg from DII so we won't hear about fg in DIII.

Also, I can remember that the maker of Glider, a WoW bot sold to public for 25$, got sued by Blizzard for 6 million dollars for the potential profit Blizzard lost because they banned a lot of botters. This helped a lot to dissuade hackers from attacking WoW again because its indeed MAJOR MONEY!


 

psyadam

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I can probably enjoy the game with or without hackers. Since it's unrealilistic to expect there to be no hackers/hacks, I'll just live with it.

Edit: I DO have a problem with a small monthly fee to eliminate hackers, as I am very poor and can't afford it.
 

Brother Laz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

I refuse to pay monthly to keep out hackers. I expect a normally working game without design flaws that can be exploited by hackers to be included with the box price. (Especially since we'll have to buy two boxes if we want to play with intercontinental friends)

Note: maphack was so popular because it fulfilled a real need. In a game where the only gameplay consists of rushing to a boss and killing it in 10 seconds, hiding said boss at the end of a labyrinth filled with useless and harmless monsters is annoying.
 

Zarniwoop

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Then you don't understand the game industry Brother Laz.

There will be about the same level of hacking in D3 that there was/is in D2.

As long as memory can be read, there is essentially no defense that will stand up.
 

ThulRasha

Diablo: IncGamers Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

As long as memory can be read, there is essentially no defense that will stand up.
Best defense would be to make sure that the data is not yet in memory. The D3 servers should not send the complete maps to the clients, only the part you see and some 2 screens around you as a buffer.

But yes, even then there would be hacks.


 

Tarantella

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Then you don't understand the game industry Brother Laz.

There will be about the same level of hacking in D3 that there was/is in D2.

As long as memory can be read, there is essentially no defense that will stand up.

D2 developers could be accused of some very naive programming and game design descisions labouring under the misconception that people just wanted to play the game as is.

With broadband connections and multicore processing you could encrypt core network coding and vary that encryption on a daily basis. Mind you, you might consider a career in National Security as paying more. :whistling:



 

Zarniwoop

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

The problem with that is that Blizzard writes their code assuming a mid-level system at best. Its a trade-off.
 

Sass

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

That was part of the problem with client side hacks in the first place. They did some stuff over here because networks and broadband speeds weren't nearly what they are now.
 

DivineSweety

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Im pretty sure we wont see as much hacking in d3 as we have and still do in d2, simply because of my experience with WoW where its vary litle hacking close to none !
 

Leugi

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Hacks, the truth

Im pretty sure we wont see as much hacking in d3 as we have and still do in d2, simply because of my experience with WoW where its vary litle hacking close to none !
BUT, there are private servers in WoW, and legend has it that hacks and stuff roam free in WoW in those private servers...

Of course that shouldn't bother too much to regular D3 players, but, I'm just pointing out there WILL be private servers, there WILL be hacks, there WILL be piracy, etc...

It's a shame that those that pay for the game suffer the consequences (like no-lan) for Blizzard is fighting a battle they might as well not win...


 
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