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Guns don't kill people...

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by SirKnightmare, Mar 13, 2004.

  1. SirKnightmare

    SirKnightmare IncGamers Member

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  2. Silvermyst

    Silvermyst IncGamers Member

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    Sad, truely.
    Although I can't help but be pissed off at how fanatical gun-control lobbyists are going to have a field trip with this. They'll also probably try to blame the music and/or games industries.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm all for some more strict gun-control laws in the US in particular, but I can't stand the attitude of extremists either way.
     
  3. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    It's cases like these where I'm all for the death penalty.
     
  4. bigD72

    bigD72 IncGamers Member

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    Accidental discharge of a weapon pointed toward the Teen's area anyone?

    And by area I mean face.
     
  5. Suicidal Zebra

    Suicidal Zebra IncGamers Member

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    :scratch:

    Am I the only one confused by this?

    Why goes being a member of one group imply that you are a member of the other?
     
  6. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    I'm impressed that this kid can hold off 150 cops for so long. He must be a crack shot.
     
  7. Corneo

    Corneo IncGamers Member

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    Man what a horrible person. This guy should be killed over and over again.
     
  8. bigD72

    bigD72 IncGamers Member

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    I have been playing Halo like crazy lately, but this reminds me when the Marines say "Get up so I can kill you again" to a covenant alien, which I probably killed.
     
  9. Module88

    Module88 IncGamers Member

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    :( How is it that a SWAT team is held down by one kid? Shields? Perhaps if the team could have gotten to the officer faster, he might have lived. A sad story, but proof that police forces need to adapt to new situations. Ceramic plates should be on kevlar vests, but I don't think they are. The sad part is that he may have lived. :(
     
  10. Module88

    Module88 IncGamers Member

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    He did have a scope. No need to be a crack shot with a scope to hit something so close. But it still doesn't say how he could have possible held off so many officers. If it were me and a cop was down, I would have said, screw it, I'm going to kill this sucker (Just like they left one of the robbers at the LA shootout to die from bleeding after getting shot in the foot). Was it right? No, but it was understandable.
     
  11. P2blr

    P2blr IncGamers Member

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    exactly, I'm gonna guess that Silvermyst is saying that the extremists will say that in order to get support for their cause
     
  12. bigD72

    bigD72 IncGamers Member

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    I thought that guy wasn't left to bleed to death, I was almost positive it was something along the lines of they only had X ambulances and the civilians, police, etc... were first priority.

    And if their had been another ambulance they would have saved the guy.

    Probably just some official b.s. that was filed though.
     
  13. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    You obviously don't have much combat training. And ceramic plates a) won't stop a round from a highpowered sniper rifle and b) don't protect from headshots. It's easy to get pinned down by anyone with an automatic weapon. Combat isn't like the movies, you know.

    The whole idea is to get him out WITHOUT getting more officers shot. Sure, they could swarm the building in numbers but how many more police are going to go down in the process? Please stop talking about things you don't know anything about.
     
  14. Module88

    Module88 IncGamers Member

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    First of all, it didn't say it was a sniper rifle. Second of all, that is why they use kevlar helmets. You tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, but since it didn't say it was a sniper rifle, it could be anything. BUT, most likely, it was using .223 remington ammunition. Ceramic plates+kelvar can stop an AK round. It will stop a .223 remington. You tell me I don't know anything about it, yet you seem to not realize that it probably wasn't anything of greater caliber than .223 or 7.62, which ceramic plates can stop. Yeah, it's best to get him out without getting officers shot, but if he is shooting at officers and killing them, well...
     
  15. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    I know you didn't say that the rifle was a sniper rifle. I was assuming that based on the article's description of it. Either way, ceramic won't always stop a bullet and kevlar helmets aren't all that good at stopping a direct hit. The body armour is not a full body suit. There are holes in the armour. They're meant for a greater safety measure, not as a ticket to bullet immunity. In any case, the whole idea is to not get shot at all. You don't just put on body armour and say "Ok, let's go in there and get him cause now I'm safe." It doesn't work like that. My point is that your idea is reckless and would more likely get other officers shot. And what happens if one gets shot in the face or the neck or the side, or the femoral or any other place not covered? What if they get hit by multiple rounds and the first few don't go through but after that the armour is compromised and the rest do? Great, there's another dead officer. You seem to think that it's ok to let other officers get shot to bring him down. Not to mention the fact that I think they know what they're doing. You're not a police officer, they are. I'm sorry if this sounds overly critical but I HATE it when civilians start telling police how to best handle a situation as if they know any better.
     
  16. maccool

    maccool IncGamers Member

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    It's kinda moot, the kid shot himself.

    But, carry on. Let's argue about guns and semantics instead of why the guy went ape. That will be much more productive. Well, we'll get to be all technical anyways :rolleyes:
     
  17. tydon

    tydon IncGamers Member

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    Anahka1:

    That is the point:

    Police officers are not well trained for this situation. Even most Swat teams are not. Police training usually does not involve things like a offensive assault on someone, they usually rely on planning and carefully thought out plans with exact directions to act. They dont have training in imrpovising attacks, which is what was needed (possibly) in this case.

    Any Police Officer who ignores advice is ignorant or stupid. Even if the advice is bad, Police are PUBLIC defendents, and thus, are not some private corporation that can shun off everyone, including the people paying them. Police are payed for by me, so I have a right to say what I want to about them.
     
  18. Anakha1

    Anakha1 Banned

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    I think you're missing the point. Module was saying, as far as I understood, that they should just rush him with superior numbers. That gets officers killed. You can say whatever you want about police officers. You don't have the right to tell them how to take down a dangerous offender. The public has no expertise in that area and don't know enough to give advice. The day I accept advice on how to take down a suspect from a civilian, I might as well quiit my job. Abd SWAT teams ARE trained for that situation. Barricaded subjects are just about ALL they train for. And no matter what kind of training these police have, they still have more than 99% of civilians.

    Police are public servants, yes, but the public doesn't dictate tactics to them. In a situation like this, the police are the experts and they make the calls on how to get him out. I'll take advice from a Green Beret, SEAL, Marine, JTF2 or SWAT officer and other professionals who are trained and know what they're talking about. That doesn't include civilians.
     
  19. Anyee

    Anyee IncGamers Member

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    So here's a kid, obviously troubled, tried to commit suicide beforehand (according to a Boston Globe report)...what the hell is he doing near any weaponry? His father is a goddamn prosecutor in the county...why wasn't this prevented?
     
  20. Module88

    Module88 IncGamers Member

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    Ceramic plates DO stop .223 and 7.62 rounds. But the thing is, you generally won't get hit in the head because the guy in front of you has a very heavy riot shield. And uh, when did I start telling police how to handle a situation? You did notice I did say "If it were me and a cop was down..." And you did misunderstand, which is the problem. I was never telling anyone how to do anything. As for the training, SWAT teams are trained in CQB, not how to adapt to changing situations. While it's completely possible that officers can think on their own, they are bound to certain orders by their superior officers. Just because they have the ability to adapt doesn't mean they will be able to without disobeying rules of engagement.
     

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