Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Guide to the v1.11 Avenger

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by Senshiki, Sep 30, 2006.

  1. Senshiki

    Senshiki IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2005
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    102
    Guide to the v1.11 Avenger

    So the avenger seems to be one of the least seen characters around to me (except perhaps the conversion/thorns pally.) I always loved paladins, and have made a few hammerdins, smiters, zealots and even a foh'er, but then upon looking at the skill tree, I ran into Vengance, a skill I have used for fun but never thought of using to it's fullest. Well I decided to try one out and the results were quite astounding. For a guy who attacks one target at a time, he is just as good as a smiter in groups and against bosses, except he is actually harder to kill.

    The most important aspects of survival are three main things: high life, high defense, and high resist. While a goal for all characters (especially melee) is to have all three of these, usually it is difficult to get ahead of the game without sacraficing one of the two others, or even worse other stats having to do with how you kill. This character however, with the use of the passive bonuses from his resist skills, already put him 10% ahead of everyone without a single piece of equipment.

    This is not only a fun, but also challenging character who can hold his own in hell, but still requires precise planning of skills and gear.

    Stats:

    Same as most builds, enough strength for gear, blah blah blah rest to vitality. You shouldn't need much more than 80 strength to wear everything with +strength gear. Dexterity depends on your weapon of course. I recommend about 55, which is the minimum for a Berzerker Axe.

    Skills:
    Prerequisites - 12 (With 1 into Holy Shield for blocking)
    Prerequisites - 7 (Without Holy Shield)
    Resist Cold - 20
    Resist Fire- 20
    Resist Lightning - 20
    Vengance - 20
    *Conviction - Remaining Points Here

    *While leveling and putting in skills, I recommend maxing Vengance first, then at least 10 into the resist auras before doing Conviction. Keep conviciton around level 5 untill you have a bulk of elemental damage to deal out. To max everything and have the best conviction possible, it will take all 110 of your available skill points. Because of this, if you shoot for level 85, keep Resist Fire and Resist Cold at around level 10 until you have gotten Conviction to the right level. Conviction's effectiveness doesn't go any higher past level 25, so with a Torch, annihalus, and we'll say 4 to all skills from gear (total of 7), you don't need it to go higher than level 15.

    Gear:

    The avenger is a very different character. While most melee have to concentrate on high physical damage, and casters on a certain element (or magic,) this one needs not worry about any of them when it comes to his gear. The hardest choice to make on his setup is his weapon, and while many Barbarians' strategy would be crippled by a low-damage weapon, this guy can look at every other good attribute of the weapon EXCEPT damage.

    The only time physical damage would come into play is life leech, and even then 20% of a low 500-1000 damage is plenty to suffice if your hitting constantly. Thanks to this, you get to choose the weapon that best suits you, but I will give a list of some best choices depending on what you need. His other gear however is very set in stone as to how his strategy works:

    Helm: Dream - Very important. After some testing I found that when items grant you aura's when equiped, the aura's power is increased by any synergie points the Paladin may have. Think of it as a reverse Marrowwalk glitch, instead of item skills granting synergies to your active ones, the skills you have increase the aura. With the high Holy Shock aura, the maxed out synergie Resist Lightning will significantly increase the damage.

    Amulet: Mara's/Highlord's - Not a devastating choice, one of which more depends on your weapon. (Discussed later.) Mara's offers good skills and resist, and Highlord's offers faster swing and a chance to double your physical damage, which as I stated is practically useless.

    Armor: Dragon - Again, the Holy Fire aura will be much more powerful with the Resist Fire aura synergie, and the armor in general offers some Nice mods.

    Shield: Herald of Zakarum - This is by far the best paladin shield available. Huge skill bonuses, nice resist, and strength and vitality. An Exile is also a good choice, however since your not maxing out Holy Shield nor Defiance as with zealots or smiters, the defense is probably not worth it.

    Belt: Verdungo's - Damage reduction and huge life bonus. I think enough has been said. If you really need the leech or are 10% away from the next IAS breakpoint, a Nosferatu's Coil can be used instead, but high DR and Vit is hard to pass.

    Ring 1: Raven Frost - Same reason everyone else wears it.

    Ring 2: Bul Katho's/Crafted/Rare - Again, good life bonus and a skill point. Rare rings can also be good. Look for one that has mana/life leech, resist, or Dex/Attack rating.

    Gloves: Dracul's/Magnus's Skin/Laying of Hands - Dracul's if you need Life tap, which may prove insignificant because you won't have a very fast attack speed. Orphan's gloves have attack speed and attack rating, as well as 15% fire resist for gravy. Desciple glove's have a massive demon damage (also insignificant) and a whopping 50% fire resist.

    Boots: Sandstorm Treks - Life, strength, and high poison resist. Solid choice for boots. Waterwalks would also be a good choice for the life bonus.

    Weapon: Here's where everything come's down to preferance. I have two weapon choices of miy own, but I have found several other choices as well. Choose depending on what your Avenger lacks:

    1. Doom Berzerker Axe - My number one choice for PvM. This follows the Resist Cold synergie, a hearty speed bonus (45%), 2 to all skills, -57% enemy cold resist, freezes target and prevents monster heal. A very shagadelic choice. It does not however offer any sort of leech.

    2. Silence Berzerker Axe - My number one choice for PvP, simply because Holy Freeze is considered bad mannered by most players. Don't think this is only a substitute, this one also gives 2 all skills, some hit recovery, 11% mana leech (useful, since maxed Vengence will be more than 40 mana per swing), and a huge 75 resist. Considering that 3 of your resist will be 85 maximum, resist is a coveted attribute. Before I found out about the aura from item glitch, I used a Chain of Honors, so resist was easy, but replacing it with a Dragon will cripple what sets you apart from others. This weapon makes for a good (actually better) replacement for lost CoH resist.

    3. Lightsabre - A very cheap alternative, and still has plenty of goodies. Mana leech and very fast attack speed to name a few.

    4. Breath of the Dying - In any build where the character would ever run up and whack a target, this is always left as an option if not the main choice. Again, this isn't a choice for damage, but dual leech, attribute increase and 60% increased attack speed keep this Runeword an awesome choice for virtually any melee build.

    5. Kingslayer - Seemingly built around Vengence, this weapon adds 1 to the skill, as well as useful bonuses for an Avenger: Attack rating, *Crushing Blow, and an even greater decrease of enemy defense.

    *(Even though physical damage is not of much concern, CB is an incredible tool in taking down huge targets quickly. Between lower resist from conviction and the massive elemental damage per swing, adding in CB will make any monster go down for the count very quickly.)

    General Strategy:

    PvM - This guy is a great monster killer. He can destroy immunities as well if the enemy resist is less than 150, which only begins showing up past Act III in Hell. Aside from resist, it also takes down the defense 95% at level 25. You could do fine as a lone killer, but this guy is pretty much the top dog when it comes to party play. For all melee, it makes missing targets a thing of the past, and for sorcs and druids, slaying with cold or lightning has never been easier. It will help you as well with other people. How lucky would you be to have a full-blown Enchantress to imbue you with even bigger fire damage? Best option for party play, find a cow game with a javazon, wind druid and lightnign sorc. I guarentee you can do a cow game every three minutes. ; )

    PvP - This build is basically a slightly more challenging version of a Martyr. Single attack, but no godly skill like smite. He isn't impossible (Melee-mancer w/o poison) but he's a bit harder. The main drawback is his attack speed, which unlike zeal, recieves no enhancement from the primary skill. It will all be up to your weapon, gloves, etc. Because of this, PvP will be especially hard, for certain situations:

    Barbarian - Difficulty: 9/10
    Aside from always having 75 resist, this guy is fast. He will WW right through you. In fact, I think the only hope of beating a good barb is if he is a Berzerker, since his attack speed will be equal to yours. Also, the life is an issue. Because of the MASSIVE amount of damage you dish out, it should never take more than two hits (one if it is a caster.) However I've seen (and had) barbs with over 7 k life. (Ever heard of a wolf barb?) These guys can and will take a beating.

    Sorceress - Difficulty 6/10
    Not exactly a hard fight, just tedious. After all, with perfect resist, they are all 85%. The trouble here is hitting them. So long as you have cannot be frozen and won't be slowed by cold, you should be fine. Run in zigzags and circles, taking as few hits as possible and land a blow. Between the weakness of sorcs and Conviction, her defense shouldn't be much higher than 300.

    Assasin - Difficulty 7/10
    Trapsins are harder, but kickers are pretty easy. Wait for them to come at you and meet them first. Be wary of her Shadow. For trapsins, you'll need some hit recovery. Even with your good resist, stun locking and multiply hits will fry you.

    Paladins - Difficulty 9/10
    Zealots attack faster and have big defense, smiters stun and attack fast, and tesladins are like an Avenger but quicker. Easiest opponent would be a Hammerdin, just come from below and whack em' good. They will most likely tele, so watch out for the field of flying hammers.

    Druids - Difficulty 5/10
    I actually think this one is laughable. The only way an elemental druid would beat you is if they know how to use twisters very well for stun. Other than that the damage is already low, so your up'ed resist will be fine. They will however have Cyclone armor, but one swing should take that out, and then the next swing (or two if they are shapeshifter and/or have Oak Sage) should take them out.

    Amazons - Difficulty 8/10
    Ranged attacks, melee one's at that. Avoidance is hard if they use guided arrow or muliple shot. Javazons aren't too tough thanks to your high resist, but you still can't take but a few strikes. Poison javazons are deadly, but since they have to throw, pause, then either throw again or run, you can try your best to avoid the clouds and charge to them.

    Necromancers - Difficulty 10/10
    These bad boys seem as if they were designed to kill Avengers, since they have the three things Avengers can't handle well: magic damage, poison damage, and large numbers. Let's just start off by saying if you get hit with decrepify, give up. Your swing speed is slow enough. Summoners (especially tele-ing ones) are nearly impossible to hit, and if you get hit with poison (your lowest resistance) your done for. Not to mention how badly a bonemancer would clobber you. My best bet, unless it is a fun low level duel, don't take this one on.

    Well that about covers it. I'm sure any of you pally players know this guy is no smiter, but I for one got pretty sick of seeing the same players. so if you want something different but still pretty good, try this guy on for size.
     
  2. koeraokse

    koeraokse IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    1,153
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    more equipment options maybe? if someone uses lightsabre then I dont think he can afford dragon...

    :shocked:
    *priit2
     
  3. Bladewind

    Bladewind IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Avengers should have maxed block. They have weak crowd control thus blocking should always come before damage, so they might have to shoot for lower synergies.

    Also Vengence is X element damage % based off your WEAPON'S PHYSICAL DAMAGE, so any high physical damage weapon should be sought and EBotDz is the obvious choice due to dual leech and high base physical damage.


    As for concerning windy druids. A good windy druid will do 6k Physical damage, UNBLOCKABLE tornado and spam them very very quickly. Unless your setup allows for a lot of DR and life, a good windy will make your life miserable very quickly.
     
  4. zerth

    zerth IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2006
    Messages:
    1,118
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    I made an avenger recently. Got him to lvl 80, and had maxed vengeance, maxed conviction and 10 points in resist cold/lightning/fire defensive auras. His equipment was something like:
    Umed Guardian Angel
    Umed Herald of Zakarum
    Dracul's
    Shako
    Baranar's Star
    Rare rings (ll, ml, resists etc)
    +2 skills ammy
    don't remember what else but generally decent stuff
    Anyway, he had like +10-12 to all skills, 95 all resists in Hell, 75 %block and was killing everything in 1-2 hits. However, I was far from impressed and quit playing him. IMO a zealot with conviction can do better for solo PvM play. Party play, is indeed an other story, as he speeds up party kills imensely and can tank anything. Just my 2c.

    --zerth
     
  5. MrGoth

    MrGoth IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Thats your big booboo. This is why ebotdzerk is better than most of the weapons you had up there.

    Also this is why for pvm, fanatism > conviction, as it will give you the ias that is hard to come by, and you will get more damage by increasing all 3 elemental types, even if a critter is immune to one or two of them. {breaking an immunity with conviction or lower res will result with a very small reduction of resistance past that immunity}

    The elemental auras from runewords are nice, but if you want to be a big nasty paladin, try picking up an ebotd thundermaul and wip out vengance with fanatism.

    Also deadly strike still works here, as it will double the physical thus doubling the elemental damage output.


    edits; if your having problems dueling necros, then its most likely just the necro stopping you before you can get to him.

    Just remember this; his bone armor protects him from physical damage - which you do not do. Hes a caster - with lower cast rates than a barb & a sorc. He has half hit recovery tables. All he can do to stop you from charging up to him and smacking him with a vengance is try to prison you, or run for it, your or charging in a strait line threw a bunch of spirits/spears.

    Try charging in a circle type path so you dont get alot of magic up your arse. Its hard to get high hp on a necro so i bet one deadly strike vengance would kill em.
     
  6. shag

    shag IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Messages:
    195
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    86
    mrgoth, you have an interesting idea with being two-handed and using fanaticism instead of conviction. what skill layout would you suggest?

    also i thought maxing vengeance last would be best because of the high mana cost it accumulates and instead allocate only a point and focus on synergies. especially for an untwinked player like myself. :smiley:
     
  7. MrGoth

    MrGoth IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    I wouldnt use a 2 hander as a main weapon, but on weapon switch vrs say bosses or single targets where you cannot be mobbed.

    The skill layout would be the same as his, except fanatism instead of conviction.

    As for maxing vengeance last, remember that it gains like 6% to each element damage, whereas the synergies only give 10% to that element {salvations like 2 or 3%}. Most of the time when I read setups on avengers they tend to focus on two elemental types {by maxing only two of the elemental synergies}, and maxing vengance.

    For pvm, fire immunes dominante hell, so someone who maxes vengance, fanatism, resist lighting & resist cold would most likely cause the most damage.

    For pvp, since most duelers hold on to atleast one ravenfrost, and expect to see a cold sorc in every pubby game, its safe to assume that cold damage shouldt be focused on, and lighting & fire instead.
     
  8. Bladewind

    Bladewind IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    A lvl25 conviction should break any form of fire immunes but yeah Light damage should be the way to go. On a side note, cold immunes tend to have extremely high cold immunities so cold might not be such a good idea also.

    For example OKs have like 180% Cold resistances, no way a -150% can break that.
     
  9. oodjob

    oodjob IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Ok, first off, you need to realize that there is a cap to max. -% enemy resistance which is 150. With maxed conviction you will have nearly that and with plus 10 to skills by gear you will easily achieved the max. Second off, this avenger is going to be one slow *** guy. I suggest more ias from items like ebotdz and lavagout (Dracs nearly 100% useless for this guy) Also, for boots i use Shadow Dancer for the sexy FHR and 25 to dex (i have max block and max DR = helps ALOT) Finally, one item every Avenger build forgets to mention is Seraphs Hymn. With plus 4 to each synergy Resist skill, this adds handy damage as Maras is useless (Avenger will EASILY have PLENTY of resistances.) I like you aura choices and you are right to stick with them but you need to remember that an Avenger does rely and count on melee attacks with vengeance and that that damage and life steal is important in tight spots.
     
  10. Bladewind

    Bladewind IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Dracs are still useful due to LT. Avengers do very little physical damage in the first place so the life stolen back is very very little, they really need dracs for any sort of life steal in the first place.

    And one major major flaw in your logic, Synergies are only affected by HARD points not + skills so even if you have +1000 to all synergies, only the 20 hard points into the synergy will work.
     
  11. MrGoth

    MrGoth IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    616
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    We covered this already. Not only did he already suggest ebotdz, but even lightsaber for fast speed. His guide is for conviction based, and speed has already been noted as being non essential in pvm to a degree.

    They do help with blocking, and the fhr is nice...but i doubt a pvm paladin would want to spring for these, nor invest the strength for them unless he plans on using some heavy weapon. But they are nice boots.

    Bladewind covered this.

    ...what? Its pretty hard to get off the melee track with an avenger here, not too sure what was meant by...all of that.
     
  12. oodjob

    oodjob IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    On my avenger seraphs adds 100 dmg and 100 ar, and although this is very tiny, since i have above max res mara is useless yet highlord is still very good option which i forgot to mention (ias always nice). About the dracs i never need life as my avenger doesnt really lose any but may be different for others.
     
  13. oodjob

    oodjob IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2006
    Messages:
    641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    and mrgoth if i wasnt clear i was simply saying that melee is an avengers main attack... it seemed as if the build focused perhaps too much on auras for dmg
     
  14. Asmodeous

    Asmodeous IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Messages:
    1,900
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    255
    I think you really need to play an avenger before you write a guide for them.

    As well as some of the other faults other people have mentioned, you forgot to mention war traveller boots for the 15-25 damage which works with vengeance damage as does blood fist gloves.

    As far as weapons go, how about mentioning some useful and affordable avenger weapon choices such as Eth Oath (210-340% ed,eth.50% ias), rune master, heaven's light/redeemer and stone crusher just to name a few.
    Dream/botd/etc type items are hard to come by so not everybody has access to them so suggesting set ups for the "item poor" in guides is always a good idea.
    Cresent moon ammy is also a good pick for the dual leeches. I have yet to see a item supplied source of meditation keep up with the mana needs of a decent avenger.
    String of ears is another belt that has life leech and is a good pick as well.

    Also mentioning socketing options for avengers is a good idea too as this is a very misunderstood area for avengers. Most people think off weapon ed works with vengeance. Search the forums for the answers to that question and hopefully you will learn something about avengers at the same time.

    Crumbs, I could be here all day with suggestions and error checking. But keep working on it. The mods here don't want to put my avenger guide in the compendium, so somebody around here has to be able to get an avenger guide in there that isn't 4 years old.

    Oh, and ethbotd beserker axe isn't the best weapon for a avenger, not unless you can make one that does more than 8.1 kay average damage @ 9fps with conviction aura and full resists and survives throne room runs (not some trumped up lsk hero)
    And for two handed avengers, I think the mark is about 11.5 kay average damage at 11 fps or so. I dunno. I'd have to check. It's hard to calculate exact damage when both min & max damage are over 10 kay.
     
  15. riTuaL

    riTuaL IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    I'm currently building an avenger too, but what I'm maxing is Conviction, Vengeance(omg! so useless...DUH!) and salvation?(the synergy for vengeance other the the individual resist X), because it increases all synergies instead of 1. You'll compensate this by maxing conviction...

    And well, about that dmg output, i don't know exactly how and what, but my (havent done normal yet:p:p) weapon should do around 20-50 dmg, and its actually around 100-200, so I don't really know this part of the D2X-engine calculations... However, can't Vengeance rise over the 100% Lightning/Cold/Fire dmg? I'd lik eto know that.

    And since vengeance does % of dmg, wouldn't be Baranar's Star a good pick?

    I'm new to the forums so please (Don't) flame me, only trying to help;)
     
  16. Bladewind

    Bladewind IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Baranar's star is fine, if a tad slow.

    Remember % of dmg works best with any heavy damage weapon like most of the heavy duty runewords except Grief.
     
  17. GeniusMisunderstood

    GeniusMisunderstood IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2005
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Re: Guide to the v1.11 Avenger

    Having recently built my first avenger (without this guide, admittedly), I have to agree with most of the comments given here, and here's my two-penneth:

    1) Not sure why some seem to be against the Draculs - I have found them to be a lifesaver countless times when being mobbed by large groups which, if there is a weakness to this build, this might be. The life leech by the physical damage is not high enough to sustain you for long, but once life tap triggers, you're pretty much safe.

    2) On a similar note, I have tried the build with a dream helm etc and was not impressed by the small increase to damage. My current set-up uses Vampire Gaze (the dr% again is a life saver, when combined with my dungos and fortitude), along with Gore Rider boots for the CB, DS etc - though War Travellers are a good choice as well. I've yet to try Andy's Face with the build, but with the IAS and +2 to all skills, I reckon this might be another very viable route to up damage for the build (although the DR% will be missed).

    3) One thing I'm surprised at, given the debate between conviction and fanaticism, is the lack of any discussion on mercenaries. My particular build uses an Act 2 Holy Freeze merc (which slows everything hugely) equipped with - guess what - an Infinity. Therefore I get a high-level conviction aura, as well as getting to max fanaticism. Phys Immunes, Fire Immunes, Light immunes... it really doesn't matter. They all fall pretty quickly. The only thing which ever kills me is Iron Maiden (a curse I really hope they get rid of for D3).

    Other than those points, I think some lower-level equip choices and perhaps a strategy guide need to be added to this to make it a really top guide, but it's a good starting point.
     
  18. 5zigen

    5zigen IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Guide to the v1.11 Avenger

    Why did no one mention shael um tir runeword here?
     
  19. Existent

    Existent IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2008
    Messages:
    40
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    5
    Re: Guide to the v1.11 Avenger

    does ethereal set equips drops? i'm just wondering since i haven't seen an eth Griswolds' Redemption or any eth set equips for that matter.
     
  20. 5zigen

    5zigen IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2003
    Messages:
    1,346
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Guide to the v1.11 Avenger

    no, they can't be ethereal.



     

Share This Page