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Guest Article: v1.10: Too Tough or Too Easy?

Discussion in 'Diablo 2 Community Forum' started by Flux, Mar 20, 2004.

  1. Flux

    Flux Administrator

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    Guest Article: v1.10: Too Tough or Too Easy?

    http://diabloii.net/columnists/a-tough-easy.shtml

    This guest article by Dannarhetoshi discusses the patch, and whether it's too hard, too easy, or Goldilocks. And since we have an article about the patch being too hard or too easy most every time, I liked that this one killed both birds with a single 600 word stone.
     
  2. DannarHetoshi

    DannarHetoshi IncGamers Member

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    Thanks Flux!

    What a surprise! I wake up and check the usual sites, and low and behold! What do I find but my ode to 1.1!

    Thanks for posting my rant Flux! You own Diablo (And baal for that matter ;) )

    -Dannar
     
  3. Baboon

    Baboon IncGamers Member

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    I agree with the article, 1.10 is perfect. Too bad I still see way to much sorceresses with identical outfits. But it's still perfect ;)
     
  4. Killfrenzy

    Killfrenzy IncGamers Member

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    I do not believe that 1.10 is perfect. What about the ridiculous pvp class imbalance? As it stands without gear paladin>non whirlwinders in melee and caster>melee

    this is of course a general view of things but from what i have witnessed its pretty accurate. Blizzards changes to blocking have given the paladin even more of an edge that had already been created by uninteruptable zeals, EXILE etc. Now if a pally is fighting say a bear druid, the pally is getting a free hit in when the druid blocks since bear druids have some of the worst blocking in the game! :rant:

    now reversed. the pally's 2 frame block rate will have no problem blocking 75% of the druid swings even if he is swinging at 4 frames! Obviously we are refering to maul here since fireclaws is unblockable, but still...if the pally starts up a zeal cycle it'll be problematic getting in a swing anyway since its pretty much block, free hit, block, free hit.

    As for caster dominance i predicted this before 1.10 even came out. To keep up with increased monster life and the removal of the 50% hell physical resist, blizzard would've had to double the damage of most spells. well they did a LOT better than that (Ahem...FIREBALL). Now fighting a sorc essentially requires you to change out most of your gear for 90 resist and absorb!

    Oh and lets not forget the necro, more specifically the bonecro. you cant even resist that unless you sacrifice your normal shield for a crafted one, and even that wont help much. and god help you if you cant teleport. UH OH! here comes the bone prison!

    Wind druids actually take someskill to use due to the somewhat short accurate range of their attacks, but a melee-er can have himself blown away in half a second from the tornados.

    so, you see 1.10 is FAR from perfect IMO


    rant over
     
  5. gods_pawn

    gods_pawn Banned

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    killfrenzy, it's like rock paper scissors - you can't complain when rocks constantly beat the scissors! it's just that class takes advantage of the other classes weakness! provided you take special things into consideration, you can overcome ANY class with another one! i dare you to give me an example of an untouchable class - i will come up with a build who can overtake that one. i am not trying to flame you, i am just trying to explain a facet of this game no one likes to admit - there will be SOME character in which you cannot beat.

    as for the article, you are 100% right - i love it. i now have an ongoing challenge to make my sorceress an untouchable, a venture that has taken me 7 different sorceress builds to create (harmonizing max block, high life, high mana, huge damage that ISN'T immune to one creature or another, with good magic find isn't easy!! :scratch: but it has revitalized my interest in the game tremendously.

    1.10 is only impossible to those who have the inability to adapt to the new changes in the game. same holds true with evolution - if you can't change with it, you will be left behind.

    great article!
     
  6. Qroft

    Qroft IncGamers Member

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    Erm.....

    Was there a point to that article other than just listing characters? I mean I'm glad that people play these characters, but without knowing how long and pain-staking their journey has been, or how they are outfitted, or what kind of help they have gotten along the way.... well that doesn't say anything about the balance of the game.
     
  7. Anidem

    Anidem Banned

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    UGH! Yet again a good article about game balance has been interruptred by the constant mention of PvP! Get over yourselves, Where did this mention PvP at all? No, it didn't! Dueling is supposed to be a fun sidetrack, quit asssuming that all that maters to everyone is PvP! WE ARE TIRED OF ALL YOUR COMPLAINTS ABOUT PvP UNBALANCE! If you need to prove you manhood go play a game designed for it. As grerat as Diablo2 is it is really is really noobish in relations to PvP and thats fine with me.

    Whew! Poison purged! Feel much better now! To be honest, I really have only 2 complaints. First, I don't believe that monsters should be totally Immune to anything, it realistically neuters solo play. How about a 95% resist to at least make it a long miserable battle, but one that CAN be won. i know Blizz wanted to promote Team play but honestly, It just increased Rushing or Re-Rolling if not remaking games to avoid a monster group. This is ESPECALLY true of the fire-res. Shamans in Baals Minions. Hydra/Meteor sorcs are rare enough, now they CANNOT Complet the game. Pretty lame.

    Finally, Diablo has just been way too Nerfed. It is now almost no fun to fight him nemore. granted his blocking was insane but now any ghetto light trapper can tear him up effortlessly!
     
  8. wisedoor

    wisedoor IncGamers Member

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    Very nice article Dannar :thumbsup:
    I hope the next patch, if it ever comes out, don´t mess a lot with balancing, but more to fix the few annoying bugs that came (leap attack, charge, etc)
     
  9. Fearox

    Fearox IncGamers Member

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    I agree with the author mostly, but I don't think the patch is perfect (nothing is). I got a similar article published in December and I'm really surprised how angry some people were with me (especially the ones who think 1.10 is too hard). So, before they flame this thread to hell I say: May the force be with you man :thumbsup:
     
  10. Ferrous

    Ferrous IncGamers Member

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    In general I suppose I agree with the author...but some builds and skills are clearly more viable than others....Hammerdins are all the rage, and rabid druids never will be.
     
  11. Cloud_Walker

    Cloud_Walker Banned

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    3 out of 10

    I think you missed Leon's point when he said, "Where's the Druid, who specializes in Melee combat, encased by protective winds, and accompanied by his loyal pack and Flock?"

    He's talking about a Druid fully utilizing skills from 3 different trees, spreading his points thin. This will get any character nowhere, which is why he said afterwards, "Still in the Den of Evil where we left him." All of the characters you mentioned are sticking to 1 or maybe 2 skill trees with more consolidated points. Plus, since your characters are nonladder, I'm willing to bet those in the high 90's were leveled mostly in 1.09.
     
  12. CookiesnCream

    CookiesnCream IncGamers Member

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    Good article? How? Just because you agree with the article doesn't necessarily make it a good article. The author really didn't prove his point very well, and listing characters were useless since it doesn't really prove his point either. And the author probably only plays softcore and not hardcore where things are entirely different. And I bet some of his characters, like his hybrid zon, was made back in 1.09.
     
  13. Fearoth

    Fearoth IncGamers Member

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    Every patch Blizzard seems to generate new overpowered skills.Consider the hammerdin. Ok we have a magic damage area of effect skill which:
    1.NO Monster in the game is immune to (except wailing beast in a3 temples but who goes there anyway? ) due to some ridiculous idea of blizzard to make it ignore resistances of undead and demons (WHY DEMONS?Holy bolt doesnt hurt them why should blessed hammer ignore their resist? (pointless rant anyway since no demon is immune to magic).
    2.Does insane damage with all the synergies + its boosted by an aura.10k hammer damage is not all that uncommon or difficult to get.
    3.Costs barely any mana (maxed out hammers cost what? 15 mana per cast?)+its being used by a character with the best mana recovering skill in the game.Flash redemption for half a second after a hammer carnage and wham! your bulb is full again.
    4.The character that uses this skill has BEST faster hit recovery in the game,BEST blocking and now rivals the barbarian for BEST overall defense.Add to this that its probably the easiest for a paladin to get max resistances of any character class with the paladin shields spawning with resist automods.
    Add to this mix the ability to teleport (enigma),battle orders(call to arms) and here we have a build that puts any 1.09 bowazon to shame.8 player solo hell baal runs are no problem for a character like that which should never have been minding blizzard's intentions for this patch. (Rant over).
     
  14. Anidem

    Anidem Banned

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    I think the point to the article was kinda to ask that now that we are all accostemed to all the changes, what do we think? Up to now the idea of discussing the patch turned to flaming in a matter of seconds. When will we be able to discuss the changes and come up with solid suggestions NOT based on WHY,WHY,WHY.
     
  15. FaaR

    FaaR IncGamers Member

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    There's been other people saying the same thing in the past, and it always boils down to "*I* don't think 1.10 is too hard, therefore it isn't".

    Yet when you have bowazons using the best bow they've ever found, investing as much as they can in dex, maxed-out strafe plus a might mercenary, and still not even budging the health-bar of monsters in a three-player game due to regen, you seriously have to ask yourself if something isn't completely f****d-up here.

    Add to that she being THE most difficult char to get good resists with (hardly any bows that have resists on them that does not suck donkey schlong at the same time, and a quiver in the other hand sure doesn't help).

    You see, I have such a bowazon, and let me tell you, life sure isn't easy anymore. In 1.09 I have a bowa with a 199% ED buriza which I found legit, but the best bow I've come across so far in 1.10 ladder is a goldstrike and that was GIVEN to me by some random guy!

    Just working my way through the acts is something that takes more patience than I really got, she's in act 2 now trying to get the amulet from the claw vipers in hell difficulty, but they always overwhelm her and block the entrance within seconds of me arriving down there, it's hopeless. They're so fast and they charge and charge and charge relentlessly without any delay and they do MAJOR damage each time and always hit. Before I've recovered from the stun of the first one I've already been hit again.

    Once my valk goes down (and she's maxed with 5 extra points in decoy), I always get it next (merc is already long dead at this point), they might hit me and kill me before I even know it due to network lag.

    Now, is there a way to make it through the game as a strafe bowa? I'm sure there is, but it's VERY difficult and frustrating doing it if you only get to use the equipment you can pick out during the course of the game like I do. I don't have any MF chars that can exploit boss monsters, I must scrape by on what I can find. With the horribly cheap elemental attackers that now populate the game (not just the souls, but bloodstar wenches, abyss knights etc etc) along with some frustratingly difficult melee monsters that do simply crazy damage in some cases even without might or famaticism auras means just single player games can be near impossible experiences for a build that really SHOULD be viable.

    1.10 got it right in MOST cases. Where it glitches is in the extreme cases like act 2 with all the lightning bugs, endlessly revived unleechable skeletons and super poison cloud monsters etc. There's usually at least one place or two in each act that is really seriously out of whack from a balance standpoint that could have been fixed if the most extreme aspect of the enemies there were toned down a bit. Blizzard took a long good while getting the patch out, but they sure didn't do a proper amount of testing.
     
  16. DannarHetoshi

    DannarHetoshi IncGamers Member

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    Excellent responses

    This is a reply to everyone who posted a response to my article.

    All I meant to say with the article is to prove that its not easy to solo hell with some of these characters, but neither is it impossible.

    There are still imbalanced classes, like for example, I wonder how that hammerdin that was described would handle a mana burning boss pack of souls combined with lower resisting knights in throne of destruction.

    As of right now, I know of only one character class that I can think of that can handle every conceivable obstacle the game can throw at it, and I think I know, because I've made 6 of the 7 characters in 1.1

    If anyone is curious each character I listed was ORIGINALLY made in 1.09, but deleted and remade one by one to take better advantage of synergies, but with the same basic skill structure, in 1.1. the only characters that have yet to undergo the change from 1.09 to 1.1 are the Sorceress and Barbarian, because they don't need to undergo those changes, the skills would be the same regardless of the new synergies.

    If requested, I will list out the skills for my characters, and the gear they wear.

    -Dannar
     
  17. DannarHetoshi

    DannarHetoshi IncGamers Member

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    mmm... now I'm tempted to build a rabid druid :)
     
  18. DannarHetoshi

    DannarHetoshi IncGamers Member

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    As I said in my second post in this thread, all characters listed were remade as 1.1 characters, except for the sorceress and barbarian, which would have identical builds, regardless of which patch Diablo 2 was on.
     
  19. DannarHetoshi

    DannarHetoshi IncGamers Member

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    SoloWoofie Character Stats

    You are in fact, incorrect, my Druid does indeed full utilize all three skill trees

    1 point in arctic blast,
    10 points in cyclone armor

    20 points in werewolf
    20 points in lycanthropy
    1 point in rabies and feral rage
    20 points in fury.

    4 points for prereq's for grizzly
    9 more points in oak sage
    10 points in grizzly

    Gear:

    Helm: Jalal's Mane 1.09
    Amulet: Mara's Kaliedescope
    Shield: Stormshield
    Armor: Ethereal Gladiators Bane with Zod Rune in it.
    Weapon: Breath of the Dying Beserker Axe Non-Ethereal
    Gloves, Boots, Belt: Immortal Kings for synergy bonuses
    2 crafted rings, 1 dual leech 2%life, 7% mana, the other life leech 11%
    Then an assortment of small charms adding to life, damage and attack rating..
    all ranging from 1-3/16-20/16-20

    resists: 12/55/59/13
    1h damage with fury: 1129-3129 per hit
    life is 4.4k with oak sage. Oak Sage will be the last skill maxed.



     
  20. DannarHetoshi

    DannarHetoshi IncGamers Member

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    Shockertothemax Stats

    Since I've started with my Druid, I will go through and describe each character's gear and stats

    ShockertotheMax is my most well-outfitted character

    lvl 99 with all her attribute points used.

    Cold Tree:
    1 point in:
    -ice bolt
    -frozen armor
    -ice blast
    -frost nova
    -shiver armor
    -glacial spike
    -blizzard

    20 points in:
    -Cold orb
    -Cold Mastery

    Lightning Tree
    1 point in:
    -Charged Bolt
    -Static Field
    -Telekinesis
    -Lightning
    -Chain Lightning
    -Teleport
    -Energy Shield

    14 points in Thunderstorm

    20 points in:
    -Lightning Nova
    -Lightning Mastery

    Fire Tree
    -1 point in Warmth

    Gear:
    Helm: Harlequin Crest
    Amulet: Tal Rasha's
    Armor: Tal Rasha's
    Belt: Tal Rasha's
    Shield: Stormshield w/ hel rune
    boots: War Travelers
    rings: 1 stone of Jordan, 1 Nagle Ring
    gloves: chanceguards or magefist
    orb: Occulus
    Weapon switch: Call to arms Flail
    Shield switch: Lidless Wall

    small charms (mostly 7% magic find)
    And annihilus Charm: 16/17/5

    resists: 19/67/65/-35

    Her Mercenary's Gear:
    Ethereal Arreats Face 1.09 w/ Cham rune
    Ethereal Enigma Boneweave
    Ethereal Fury Balrog Blade

    Mercenary resists are maxed
     

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