grizzly vs barbarian

[Arewyn]

Ok, I'll just answer his question in a nice and simple way.


NO, a Bear can't kill a decent Barbarian unless it wanted to stand still for half an hour and let it kill him, m'kay?

 

[TheGreatDivorce]

Don't got time to try this, but how bout' a Grizzly with Spirit of Barbs up. If the Barbarian would hit it, won't this do a crapload of damage to him?

?

 

[Chimaira]

No...There is a damage penalty on Thorns effect in PvP...I don't know how much damage it gives but apparently it isn't too much, since many people have said they could easily whirl through any minions with Spirit Of Barbs on. Maybe they were just boasting but I doubt it.

 

[aznbboi16]

Actually, yes I have seen town summon druids using thorns and SoB. If I remember correctly, it was surprisingly effective because the penalty for Minions is different and Thorns + Max SoB is a very high %return. Also, don't forget the bear has a lot of life, and that means it will be returning a lot of damage.

Whirling through wolves will be no problem because they don't have really high life, but a bear is a different story.

One way around this is to zerk, but if you don't hit, the bear may hit you right back. A high level one will hurt too. My 6k life/50%DR barb has been hit by one of these bears and it took quite a chunk out (~1k-2k). The bear had HoW and fanatacism though.

 

[Lazy_BerZerker]

as already stated a lvl 50 grizly using a lvl 50 HoW would have 2.7k of damage

Now let's say that the druid has a lvl 50 Bear with a lvl 50 HoW and he uses bramble armor, and Beast weapon. Now this would mean a lvl 21 (perfect)thorns together with a lvl 9 fana, and from the merc a lvl 18 conc and might aura. lvl9Fana + lvl50HoW + lvl18conc +lvl18might = 210+315+93+363 = 981% ED. Now just for average we says the lvl 50 bear does 7k of damage. The final damage (dealt by the bear) would be 76k. This will be reduced to 76k/12 = 6k ^^ that is a lot, but it is still too expansive to get with almost no def/ar. Now for the thorns part: lvl21thorns = 1050% returned damage. In this way you'll have the perfect town-guard-killer versus casters / meelers because the bear will deal 6 times the damage back you're dealing if it survives the hit. So okay a bear will might be usefull versus a tg trapasin, a tg ww barb stupid enough to hit it, and so on. But if your enemy are clever enough to kill it first (if they are the caster) or ignore it (if they are the meeler) then you don't stand a chance with all your expansive equiptment :-\ it would be somehing like letting an elemental immune iron golem go after a sorc while your run around with your necro hoping she won't see you

 

[MrGoth]

~

Paul, please make use of the edit button instead of spamming multiple replies, that could have saved me alot of time reading threw all this and possible kept it down a page.

A few notes;

~Druid summon synergies are not 1.10 synergies. They were there before 1.10, before 1.09, most likely before 1.08. They work with +skills. You could have just tried this and found out instead of spamming incorrect information.

~Please stop saying your grizzly can possibly do over 12k damage, that is impossible unless you have an enchantress in your party.

~His damage will be impressive yes, but it will never be enough for anyone that has over 2k hp, blocking, and half ass % Damage Reduce. As stated many times, grizzly will most likely only kill shieldless / weaker casters.

~The swipe that had itd worked in 1.09, but it was removed in 1.10. Not only that but as stated, it didnt work in a duel unless he went after someones minion/hireling/summon. Itd in duels is in the past, no eth runes, and this never worked, so forget about him killing high deffense characters in general.

~The damage listed isnt always what your going to get. The bear has two attacks, the bite and the swipe. The bite happens about 1/4 to 1/3 of the time, and its damage is a little lower. Just keep that in mind.

~The bear can be frozen, chilled, slowed even more than you by %slow gear, and worst, as stated many many times, leached off of.

Now taking that in mind, do remember that its easy to say that 98%+ barbarians that duel use some sort of botd or ebotd. That alone has the leach that will kill this.

Also remember that the unique ring raven frost is pretty standard on almost all duelers, which has cold damage.

And finally, dont forget that even with the massive % ar & deffense that synergies & HoW grant, the bear has piss poor ar and deffense. Why? Because its base deffense and attackrating are horrible. And on top of that, its hit recovery is something along the line of 15 frames iirc. Most duelers try to have 10 frame hit recovery, and barbs can attack at 3-4 frames if they use ww.

Bear vrs barb with sheild = your screwed. Bear vrs barb with cold damage & leach, unless you get first hit and he has no fhr, your screwed. The only way to even be half-effective vrs a barb without a shield is if your there spamming shockwave or twisters to try and stun him.

I have the kind of summoner on west nl sc if you would like to give this a round-about. His summons are all 46, will be 48 after i find 2 more gc's with 39+hp. *Vamp.Goth any time.

 

[Paulsummoner]

Paul, please make use of the edit button instead of spamming multiple replies, that could have saved me alot of time reading threw all this and possible kept it down a page.

A few notes;

~Druid summon synergies are not 1.10 synergies. They were there before 1.10, before 1.09, most likely before 1.08. They work with +skills. You could have just tried this and found out instead of spamming incorrect information.

~Please stop saying your grizzly can possibly do over 12k damage, that is impossible unless you have an enchantress in your party.

~His damage will be impressive yes, but it will never be enough for anyone that has over 2k hp, blocking, and half ass % Damage Reduce. As stated many times, grizzly will most likely only kill shieldless / weaker casters.

~The swipe that had itd worked in 1.09, but it was removed in 1.10. Not only that but as stated, it didnt work in a duel unless he went after someones minion/hireling/summon. Itd in duels is in the past, no eth runes, and this never worked, so forget about him killing high deffense characters in general.

~The damage listed isnt always what your going to get. The bear has two attacks, the bite and the swipe. The bite happens about 1/4 to 1/3 of the time, and its damage is a little lower. Just keep that in mind.

~The bear can be frozen, chilled, slowed even more than you by %slow gear, and worst, as stated many many times, leached off of.

Now taking that in mind, do remember that its easy to say that 98%+ barbarians that duel use some sort of botd or ebotd. That alone has the leach that will kill this.

Also remember that the unique ring raven frost is pretty standard on almost all duelers, which has cold damage.

And finally, dont forget that even with the massive % ar & deffense that synergies & HoW grant, the bear has piss poor ar and deffense. Why? Because its base deffense and attackrating are horrible. And on top of that, its hit recovery is something along the line of 15 frames iirc. Most duelers try to have 10 frame hit recovery, and barbs can attack at 3-4 frames if they use ww.

Bear vrs barb with sheild = your screwed. Bear vrs barb with cold damage & leach, unless you get first hit and he has no fhr, your screwed. The only way to even be half-effective vrs a barb without a shield is if your there spamming shockwave or twisters to try and stun him.

I have the kind of summoner on west nl sc if you would like to give this a round-about. His summons are all 46, will be 48 after i find 2 more gc's with 39+hp. *Vamp.Goth any time.

1 Sorry for many messeges, and sorry for not listening Berserker.
2 Grizzly has ITD so please don't mention bloking or defence.
3 Grizzly will do 36000 damage in single player with lvl 50 HoW, it is possible.
4 bear has all resists 85%.
5 2-3 hits and barb dead, and finally 1 hit for BvBer, as they have 2500 life, Why? let's count,7923 damage*4,63=36000 damage with HoW, with penalty it goes to 6k damage, with 50% damage red it goes to 3000 damage in one hit, not so small, and, as there is a guide for BvBer, there is barb with 2500 life in this guide, so, barb willl die in one hit, simply,BvBer will not even leach anything, one strike with paw of course, as there IS ITD, have a look at new summoner's guide on this site.
6 Bear will have 8,5k life so barb who will do maximum 1000-1500 damage will have hard time versus bear, while bear will kill barb, not easy of cource, but still, barb can kill bear if he killed druid, and this is what barb will do.

 

[Lazy_BerZerker]

1 Sorry for many messeges, and sorry for not listening Berserker.
2 Grizzly has ITD so please don't mention bloking or defence.
3 Grizzly will do 36000 damage in single player with lvl 50 HoW, it is possible.
4 bear has all resists 85%.
5 2-3 hits and barb dead, and finally 1 hit for BvBer, as they have 2500 life, Why? let's count,7923 damage*4,63=36000 damage with HoW, with penalty it goes to 6k damage, with 50% damage red it goes to 3000 damage in one hit, not so small, and, as there is a guide for BvBer, there is barb with 2500 life in this guide, so, barb willl die in one hit, simply,BvBer will not even leach anything, one strike with paw of course, as there IS ITD, have a look at new summoner's guide on this site.
6 Bear will have 8,5k life so barb who will do maximum 1000-1500 damage will have hard time versus bear, while bear will kill barb, not easy of cource, but still, barb can kill bear if he killed druid, and this is what barb will do.

1: Hehe it's okay m8 ^^ I'm kind of use to it :-\

2: I think ITD is from 1.09 that has been changed in 1.10 as I think 3 other persons in here also have said.

3: Yes 36k of damage in PVM, 6k in pvp and 3k versus most meelers.

4: I think that is an old rumor

5: You're talking about an old 1.09 BvB'er guide I think. The newest BvB'ers I have seen has 50k of def, 8k of life and they only use the amount of str/dex needed to wear gear. Besides! A Barb will almost always do more damage than 1.5k versus a minion. A barb dealing 10k will kill your minion in 2 hits .

In the end I still can't see how you can take expirences from pvm and transfere them to pvp? Your bear is able to hit talic in his ww, but it doesn't mean it will hit a 4 fpa WW'ing barb that will have a 95% chance to hit, 6 hits per WW, and laming your bear totally

Hmm I'd wish someone in here would take a duel versus your bear with an average BvB'er ^^ btw. what realm are you on? And do you play L or NL?

 

[RetroStar]

I got a BvC barb in East NL. I wanna try dueling a bear.

 

[ToThePoint]

Lots of stupid stuff here.
Anyway, listed bear damage is with the +%damage just listed below it already included.
This means there is a base damage of the bear.
The HoW modifies that base damage not the listed damage.
lvl 50 bear = 7109-7293 which includes the +515% bonus so the base damage of the bear is then 1156-1186.
lvl 50 HoW is +363% so the final damage the bear will do with HoW is:
(1156,1186)*(1+5.15+3.63) = 11305-11599. (average = 11452)
So vs a 50dr barb thats 11452*0.17*0.5= 973 damage which is about 6+ hits of which can be blocked and have missed due to defense = you will never kill a full hp barb thats not afk.
Anyone, wants to argue that point (gg 36k) then show proof via ingame tests.
(8dr barb took 706 average from a lvl 40 bear
8dr barb took 1119 average from lvl 40 bear and lvl 40 how.
work these and it proves it)

 

[Lazy_BerZerker]

well it doesn't seem logic since the bear boostes its own damage like a weapon with +%ED and then the HoW would like an aura, but yes you're right the bear shouldn't be able to kill a barb.

Btw. just thinking about the 85% res even if it was true it would just be equal to a player with 45% res so it isn't that great...

 

[ToThePoint]

It was that way in last patch, its that way in this patch.
Logical (and i dont see why it isn't - bears is the weapon its +% is 'str/mastery' and how is any other skill% aura) or not, the fact remains thats how it is.
If you just going to give 'facts' from thin air then test them first it saves a lot of hassle.

 

[Paulsummoner]

Hey guys, you better try to duel bear of those guy with 50 l3evel bear, mine is too small, besides I don't think any barb will kill bear with 2 strikes, how can ww barb do 10k damage with all penalties, 85% resists is not a rumor, check 1.10 summoner guide and ITD is also not rumor, check the same guide.

 

[Paulsummoner]

Lots of stupid stuff here.
Anyway, listed bear damage is with the +%damage just listed below it already included.
This means there is a base damage of the bear.
The HoW modifies that base damage not the listed damage.
lvl 50 bear = 7109-7293 which includes the +515% bonus so the base damage of the bear is then 1156-1186.
lvl 50 HoW is +363% so the final damage the bear will do with HoW is:
(1156,1186)*(1+5.15+3.63) = 11305-11599. (average = 11452)
So vs a 50dr barb thats 11452*0.17*0.5= 973 damage which is about 6+ hits of which can be blocked and have missed due to defense = you will never kill a full hp barb thats not afk.
Anyone, wants to argue that point (gg 36k) then show proof via ingame tests.
(8dr barb took 706 average from a lvl 40 bear
8dr barb took 1119 average from lvl 40 bear and lvl 40 how.
work these and it proves it)

1 bear's attack won't be blocked, as bear has ITD when striking with paw.
2 bear will do 36000 damage in single game, look at this lvl 50 bear 7300 damage, lvl 50 HoW with +3.63% damage, so what we have is 7300*4.63=33800 damage, in pVp it will be 2800 damage, OK

 

[Silenced Voice]

you aren't listening dude.

ITD(ignore target defense), does NOT work, in pvp(player vs. player).

you, bear, minion, doesn't matter. ITD does not work in pvp.

say it after me:
ITD does not work in pvp.
ITD does not work in pvp.
ITD does not work in pvp.

SV

P.S. ITD does not work in pvp.

 

[Lazy_BerZerker]

hehe you're reminding me about those fancy physics who only makes tests to get the results they wants, and ignore the failure of the test

Now listen please... as the other guy said (and he's probably right) the bear will have a base damage, and the bear will added to itself by leveling, so HoW would be (1+HoW%/100 + Bear%/100) * base damage = was it 10k for a lvl 50 bear with lvl 50 HoW? Still that is very high. And so are 1k of damage when you tele on top also.
Eventhough IF there still is ITD then 75% would miss since block is not defence. In this way it would 1/4 attacks that would hit.
Since you don't have such a bear why do you all the time say it's OHH so good? Is it just an idea you have, like me with the maximum str. charger or have you lost a duel to some bear? Because you really can't use your pvm experince in duels

Besides I wanna bet you're reading 1.09 guides like that "bvb" guide you've read. Or are you a ghost from 1.09 claiming his revenge at the innocent 1.10 players?