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Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

Discussion in 'Amazon' started by iDeving, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. iDeving

    iDeving Diabloii.Net Member

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    Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    So I have built a lvl 87 NL Bowazon. I am here to ask advice on what to gear to use in PVP vs PVM. I am looking for most speed damage in PVP, and over all in PVM. I do not care about resistances... Unless i should ;) + skills have not shown to be as effective as Dexterity / dmg + fort.

    ==================================

    IAS with Faith:

    With lvl 13 Fant on faith, 8 frames (GA/Multishot) is hit at 50% IAS, 7 frames at 95%.

    NOTE: A perfect faith with 16 aura requires 90% IAS for 7 frames, and 45% for 8 frames.

    I can reach 45%-50% IAS easy with amulet, gloves, and either 10% IAS belt or one of my jeweled helms (all i need is 10%).

    Or I can reach 95% IAS with M'avina's True Sight (jewled %15 ias), amulet, gloves, belt

    NOTICE: Even with a perfect Faith, its just as hard to get 5% less, due to increments of convenient gear.

    =====================================

    Current Bowazon Build (* quantity after PVP gear/charms) (See Pictures at Bottom for complete SS):

    Skills:

    Guided Arrow: 20 - 35*
    Strafe: 20 - 35*
    Valkyrie: 20 - 30*
    Dodge: 6 - 17*
    Avoid: 1 - 12*
    Evade: 6 - 17*
    Critical Strike: 2 - 13*
    Penetrate: 9 - 20* <--maybe should be 1 (Faith gives lots of AR)
    Pierce: 1 - 12*

    Stats:

    Strength: 93 (140*) For gear ONLY
    Dexterity: 400+*
    Vitality: 100 (130*)
    Energy: Base

    =====================================

    Items at hand (Keep in Mind I only need 45%-50% IAS for 8 frames):

    The * Represents Current gear being used for PvP *

    The - Represents Current Gear being used for PvM -


    Bows:

    -*GMB "Faith" (+2 skills, 13 Fant Aura)*-
    WindForce "Shael" (Perfect 8%) <-- (Does more DMG, PVP?)
    Lycanders "Nef" (NP)
    Buriza-Do Kyanon Ballista
    M'avina's Caster GMB

    Armor:

    -*"Fortitude" Archon Plate (1668 Def)*-
    "Enigma" Great Hauberk (1329 Def)
    "Chains of Honor" Archon Plate (971 Def)
    M'avina's Embrace Kraken Shell

    Helms:

    *Andariel's Visage Demonhead (Jeweled 15% IAS + 14% ED) (35 IAS total)*
    -Giant Skull Bone Visage (Jeweled 15% IAS) (Knockback)-
    Ma'vinas True Sight (+30% IAS) (Jeweled %15 IAS) <-- 45% to get 7 frames
    Vampire Gaze (Jeweled 15% IAS) (7% mana, 6% life leech)
    Valkyrie Wing Winged Helm (Jeweled 15% IAS)

    Gloves:

    *IMP Knuckle Heavy Bracers (+20% IAS) (Knockback) (+1 BowSkills)*
    -Laying of Hands Bramble Mitts (+20% IAS) (350% DMG to Demons)-
    Ghoul Grip Demonhide Gloves (+20% IAS) (+2 BowSkills) (3% ManaLeech)
    M'avina's Icy Clutch Battle Gauntlets

    Boots:

    *War Traveler Battle Boots (+16-26 DMG) <--With Fort DMG high*
    -Gore Riders War Boots- (Are Gore Riders worth it for PvM or PvP?)
    Waterwalk Sharkskin Boots

    Belts:

    -*Razortail Sharkskin Belt (Piercing Attack) (+10 to Max DMG)*-
    Nosferatu's Coil (+10% IAS, ST 10%, 7% Life leech)
    M'avina's Tenet

    Rings:

    *2 - Raven Frost Rings*
    -Grim Grasp Ring- (6% Life 6% Mana leech)
    Manald Heal Ring
    Carrion Wind Ring
    Stone of Jordan Ring
    Dwarf Star Ring

    Amulets:

    -*Highlord's Wrath Amulet (+20% IAS) (for DS/CS stack)*-
    The Cat's Eye Amulet (+20% IAS) (Dex=DMG) <--Should I use this for PvM or PvP?
    Atma's Scarab (For PIs if you don't have any other option)

    Charms:

    3 - +1 Passive Skills
    3 - +1 Bow Skills
    Hellfire Torch Large Charm (+3 ama skills, +20 attributes)
    +15 Max dmg
    +300 poison dmg 5 seconds (about)

    =======================================

    Damage with *items and charms (see pictures at bottom for complete):

    Windforce Damage:
    GA is 839-5946
    Strafe is 630-4480 AR: 5942

    Faith Damage:
    GA is 1436-5222
    Strafe is 1080-3930 AR: 16873

    ==================================

    Mercenary Act 2 Gear:

    Weapon:

    Bonehew Orge Axe "Shael" "Shael"*

    Helm:

    Andy's (ias jewel + 14% ED)
    Recommend better?

    Armor:

    Chains Of Honor*
    Enigma

    =======================================

    QUESTIONS:

    1) Is it worth it in PVP or PVM to loose a great helm to true sight to reach 7 frames (90%+)?

    2) What of this gear would you recommend for PVP? (NOTE: Keep in mind, I wish to have 8 frames at least with knockback) PLEASE INCLUDE RINGS AND AMULET.

    3) What of this gear would you recommend for PVM? (NOTE: Keep in mind, I wish to have 8 frames at least with knockback/penetrate) PLEASE INCLUDE RINGS AND AMULET.

    4) Is it worth it to try to MF with faith/wf by myself or with group at all? (got decent mf gear- shako "ist", wealth, enigma, amulet, p-nagels, treks and charms) around 250 percent mf?

    5) How much should I actually put into Penetrate? AKA: How much AR should I have to do baal runs / PVP? AR is important, but it seems Faith gives me triple my WF's AR, 1 skill looks like all i need.

    6) How much should I put into Dodge Avoid and Evade? I mean base wise, with everything I get over 50 percent from 1 or 2 base skills.

    7) How much should I put into Critical Strike? I already use Highlords, so CS and DS should play well with eachother right? So maybe just 1 point here as well.

    8) My mercenary's helm is vampire gaze / andys ias jewel +14% ED (when available), what should I put in its socket? Its already using double shaeld bonehew!

    NEW Questions!!

    9) Gore Riders vs War Travelers? I know this has been debated before (specifically bowazons), but which ones for PvP and Pvm?

    10) Highlords vs Catseye? I don't need run speed, but the Dex is nice... PvM and PvP which should I use?

    =====================================

    ScreenShots of PvM gear:

    Faith
    http://img834.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at115.png/

    Fortitude
    http://img842.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at115.png/

    Laying of the Hands
    http://img691.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at115.png/

    Giant Skull
    http://img710.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at115.png/

    War Travelers <---Should these be Gore Riders?
    http://img822.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at115.png/

    Razortail Belt
    http://img691.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at115r.png/

    Torch
    http://img833.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at115.png/



    ScreenShots of PvP (differences) Gear:

    Andariel's Visage
    http://img340.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at121.png/

    IMP Gloves
    http://img153.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at121.png/



    ScreenShots of Char Stats:

    Faith:
    http://img148.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101003at358.png/

    WF:
    http://img687.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101003at358.png/

    Passive Skills:
    http://img197.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101003at256.png/

    Bow Skills:
    http://img521.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101003at256.png/


    ScreenShots of Mercenary:

    Stats
    http://img820.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at113.png/

    Equipment

    BoneHew
    http://img401.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at114.png/

    Chains of Honor
    http://img20.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at114.png/

    Andariel's Visage
    http://img835.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at114.png/

    Any help is much appreciated, I have read through guild proposals before and hoped I detailed this as best as possible.

    PS: I am not looking for a hybrid (pvp-pvm) advice, Im looking for advice on what to equip during PVP vs PVM
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
  2. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    the newest rage is going vita zon, just max block ss on switch and rest to vita, dr items all over, with possibly a 0 speed class faith 8 frame break point and all that
     
  3. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    just a couple notes on your PvM questions...btw, Amazons are particularly ill-suited for switching PvP to PvM, since both the gear and the skillsets are completely different for each case.

    4) Dont use Shako, you're bowazon, you should use Stealskull for the same 50MF plus dual leech and IAS. You want about 200-250 MF, and the rest of your gear choices you put towards killing speed

    5) Penetrate is less important with Faith, which also has ITD for PvM

    7) PvM, you still want 16 soft points in CS. Unless you use WWS, you always want 16 soft points in CS. Highlords doesnt give nearly enough, even with, eg, Guillaumes+Gores

    8) I'm guessing your merc is only for PvM? Vgaze isnt the best option, I prefer Reapers-ebug Treachery-Tal helm. Bigger LL, plus resists. Decrep from Reapers will give you 50% DR anyway plus 50% slow, and it breaks PIs for you.
     
  4. iDeving

    iDeving Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    Thank you for your response. I would like to start by saying, my vocabulary and terminology (acronyms especially) is not what the usual poster's is.

    So please explain: Max Block? thought this represeted dexterity and refers to only with a shield, are you trying to say I should go Jav? I don't want to be Jav and didnt ask about Javs... so please clarify?

    "DR items all over" What is DR? lolz

    0 speed class? What does this mean? 0 ias would get me 9 frames with faith...

    Note: I'm sure its nice to have a bunch of Vitality in a bowazon, but I just dont see the need to have the weakest dmg around ;P Dex=Dmg , i have a merc and a valk to take the blows.


     
  5. iDeving

    iDeving Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    "just a couple notes on your PvM questions...btw, Amazons are particularly ill-suited for switching PvP to PvM, since both the gear and the skillsets are completely different for each case."

    I'm not sure how true that is for bowazons, unless your referring to Vitality / Dexterity... Obv I need more life in PvP if Im fighting with Fortitude.

    "4) Dont use Shako, you're bowazon, you should use Stealskull for the same 50MF plus dual leech and IAS. You want about 200-250 MF, and the rest of your gear choices you put towards killing speed"

    The gear listed is all I have. But I will look for Stealskull thanks!

    "5) Penetrate is less important with Faith, which also has ITD for PvM"

    ITD? Sorry I don't know what that stands for.

    "7) PvM, you still want 16 soft points in CS. Unless you use WWS, you always want 16 soft points in CS. Highlords doesnt give nearly enough, even with, eg, Guillaumes+Gores"

    Soft points are after-charms/gear quantity?

    WWS? I tried googling it, no luck, what does it stand for?

    If you dont believe that Highlords/guillaumes/gores gives enough with my current soft points in CS, than do you recommend wearing different Amulet/Helm/boots? Or just adding points to CS? I am currently using (PVM) Highlords, Giant skull ias jeweled, War Travs, laying of the hands. PVP I am using Highlords, Andys ias jeweled +12% dmg, Gore Riders and IMP gloves +knockback +1 skill.

    "8) I'm guessing your merc is only for PvM? Vgaze isnt the best option, I prefer Reapers-ebug Treachery-Tal helm. Bigger LL, plus resists. Decrep from Reapers will give you 50% DR anyway plus 50% slow, and it breaks PIs for you."

    Yes, I only use merc for PVM. I have a Tal helm, but COH already gives him full resist in Hell and plenty of Life Leech, I will upload snapshot of him soon.

    Again, what does DR stand for?

    I need a reapers toll, I sold all mine, but again, the life leech is not needed with COH and helm giving LL. How much life leech does a merc need? ;P

    Your sure BoneHew with 2 shaels is not better for a bowazon? Now that I think about it, I definitely want to break PI's as you said, and I definitely want ITD and deadly strike. Got any extras on Non Ladder West? ;P

    Mercenary ScreenShots:

    Stats
    http://img820.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at113.png/

    Equipment

    BoneHew
    http://img401.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at114.png/

    Chains of Honor
    http://img20.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at114.png/

    Andariel's Visage
    http://img835.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at114.png/
     
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2010
  6. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    Sorry, you'll pick the lingo up fast :)

    -PvM and PvP will want to spend their skillpoints differently. PvP youll probably want to max Penetrate, PvM not so important. Valk is useless in PvP, AFAIK. GA is very useful in PvP, but not practical at all PvM. Pierce is obviously pointless in PvP, but is absolutely mandatory in PvM. DEA are 1-pt wonders in PvM, in PvP you're more apt to spend more on them. Stuff like that. Unless you want to respec every time you switch between MF and dueling, you're going to be ill suited for one or the other.

    -ITD is Ignore Target Defense. It gives you a guaranteed 95% chance to hit against all monsters (at or below your level, and still very high vs monsters above your level), except for bosses and some superuniques. ITD means it doesnt matter what your AR is when you're fighting normal monsters.

    -Soft points means after +skills, yes. Hard points are points you actually spend.

    -WWS is Witchwild String, a unique bow. It gives you almost 100% Deadly Strike (DS) by itself, which makes Highlords and CS redundant. Highlords or Atma's are the best amulets for PvM, depending on what your plan is to take out Physical Immunes: Highlords gives you more damage overall....with L16 CS, if memory serves, the extra ~30% DS from Highlords affords you an extra ~11% total DPS. Atma's Scarab, though, gives you a CtC Amp Damage, which gives you a varying but sizeable boost to your DPS when it triggers, as well as breaks all Physical Immunes except Possessed Ghosts :)

    -DR is Damage Reduction, ie Damage Reduced by %. CoH + Vgaze is a sturdy combo, and also give a small boost to his Might aura, but Tals+Treachery will give your merc 45 IAS, making it a more effective offensive combo. Fade, when it triggers, gives as much res as CoH, plus a hidden 15% DR bonus. Of course, Fort + Tal's/Vgaze/Andy's gives even more offense :)

    -You can never have too much merc leech, but usually around 8-10% is enough :) If you're not giving your merc Pride, and you're not using a Faith A1 merc, then in my opinion your only other choices are Obedience for the big CB + res + enchant, or Reapers, if only for ITD and CtC Decrep. Decrep triggers early and often, and trumps any other mod on any other polearm you can think of in terms of DPS. Even ignoring the LL, those two mods make it the best pure-offense physical weapon for a merc. If you go Reapers, you definitely want Highlords for amulet. If you go something else, you want Atma's for amulet.
     
  7. iDeving

    iDeving Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    "-PvM and PvP will want to spend their skillpoints differently. PvP youll probably want to max Penetrate, PvM not so important. Valk is useless in PvP, AFAIK. GA is very useful in PvP, but not practical at all PvM. Pierce is obviously pointless in PvP, but is absolutely mandatory in PvM. DEA are 1-pt wonders in PvM, in PvP you're more apt to spend more on them. Stuff like that. Unless you want to respec every time you switch between MF and dueling, you're going to be ill suited for one or the other."

    I should say... my skill points were assigned for PvM, My questions here were to get advice on what gear should be equipped for PvP. As I can see you mention later ;P

    ********

    "-ITD is Ignore Target Defense. It gives you a guaranteed 95% chance to hit against all monsters (at or below your level, and still very high vs monsters above your level), except for bosses and some superuniques. ITD means it doesnt matter what your AR is when you're fighting normal monsters."

    So 1 point for PvM and max if PvP? (faith)

    ********

    "-Soft points means after +skills, yes. Hard points are points you actually spend."

    Thanks! :D

    ********

    "-WWS is Witchwild String, a unique bow. It gives you almost 100% Deadly Strike (DS) by itself, which makes Highlords and CS redundant. Highlords or Atma's are the best amulets for PvM, depending on what your plan is to take out Physical Immunes: Highlords gives you more damage overall....with L16 CS, if memory serves, the extra ~30% DS from Highlords affords you an extra ~11% total DPS. Atma's Scarab, though, gives you a CtC Amp Damage, which gives you a varying but sizeable boost to your DPS when it triggers, as well as breaks all Physical Immunes except Possessed Ghosts :)"

    Can WWS be used to run Hell and or PvP better than Faith? What would you socket it with?

    ********

    "-DR is Damage Reduction, ie Damage Reduced by %. CoH + Vgaze is a sturdy combo, and also give a small boost to his Might aura, but Tals+Treachery will give your merc 45 IAS, making it a more effective offensive combo. Fade, when it triggers, gives as much res as CoH, plus a hidden 15% DR bonus. Of course, Fort + Tal's/Vgaze/Andy's gives even more offense :)"

    Its hard for me to believe that 5% fade will = CoH res ;P I have never thought of using Treachery on a merc. Can I make it in Non-Ladder? What armor would you recommend to use for Merc and or bowazon? I may use it to get to 90 ias 7 frames. Obv an Act 2 merc can handle lots of strength... but u think it would be decent to put into a 3 socket superior scarab husk with 508 def (+7% def, IMD 12%)??

    http://img833.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at358.png/

    ********

    "-You can never have too much merc leech, but usually around 8-10% is enough :) If you're not giving your merc Pride, and you're not using a Faith A1 merc, then in my opinion your only other choices are Obedience for the big CB + res + enchant, or Reapers, if only for ITD and CtC Decrep. Decrep triggers early and often, and trumps any other mod on any other polearm you can think of in terms of DPS. Even ignoring the LL, those two mods make it the best pure-offense physical weapon for a merc. If you go Reapers, you definitely want Highlords for amulet. If you go something else, you want Atma's for amulet."

    My only debate with the reapers is the dmg:

    Before:
    http://img291.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at337.png/

    After:
    http://img837.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at336.png/

    I guess ITD /lifeleech makes up for it, but I would only use reapers toll (merc) with CoH, cause of the dmg to demons and undead.

    Just to make sure, the dmg labeled in "stats letter a" does not include Demon damage right?
     
  8. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    WWS<Faith. Its just much cheaper, at least on Ladder.

    Fade lasts a LONG time when it triggers. He only needs to trigger it once and he'll have it basically running the rest of the game. Its not as elegant as CoH, but you do get that 15% DR and also a reduction to curse duration, which is beautiful in places like WSK and CS where he gets cursed a lot.

    For merc, you always want to use an ebug elite armor, whichever you can get but most people look for 1000+ base def. For you, any superior light elite armor (DS, SH, GH, AP, WF, Wyrm) will do.

    Dont get caught up in the listed damage. Decrep will multiply that considerably (and your damage as well) whenever it procs, and listed damage also doesnt take into account your merc's DS. Trust me, I've tested it considerably. Reapers does more damage than any other merc weapon. Reapers does more than a BotD War Pike. The only thing that does more damage than a Reapers is an eth Reapers.
     
  9. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    cs is the best possible place to puts points for damage, why wouldnt you max it on a non hybrid o_O Assuming 2000 ED and 80% cs, 1% cs adds 0.5% damage, but 1 point to strafe for example adds 5 ED which is only 0.25% damage. And cs bonus applies to other bow skills too, not just strafe!



     
  10. iDeving

    iDeving Diabloii.Net Member

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  11. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    Reaper's is always the top gun damage weapon for mercs unless you get a curse from somewhere else..
     
  12. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    Well a few reasons...

    -You use WWS, like I said
    -Assuming around +8 all skills....by the time you max Valk, Penetrate (unless you're Faith or Jah your WF, which I actually recommend), and get MS to 24 arrows - all of which I think are more useful than the extra fraction of a percent damage - you're already pretty high level. At 90+, I'd recommend the safety of putting points in DEA to diminishing returns (I like 12/13/12 for 50%/60%/50%), since dying at 90+ sets you back so much more than the extra damage will set you ahead.

    After all that, then yes CS is the place to stick your extra points on your way up to 99


     
  13. iDeving

    iDeving Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    Thank you for your information on sorcs mercs, how does this relate to my bowazon char's merc?

    Please review the question ;)

    1) Which weapon PvM is better for my merc, Reapers Toll (shael) or Obedience

    Obedience:
    http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/426...01006at138.png

    Or

    Reapers + shael:
    http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4...01006at142.png

    Or

    Or BoneHew + 2 shales
    http://img401.imageshack.us/i/screenshot20101005at114.png/


     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2010
  14. alphaz

    alphaz Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    Best act2 merc setup:

    Might merc

    Helm:
    guillaume socketed 15ias jewel

    Weapon:
    cheap: reaper's socketed shael
    expensive: eth reaper's socketed 15ias ed jewel

    Armor:
    cheap: treachery
    expensive: ed/ias/life armor (use cham'd guillaume with this armor)
     
  15. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    So you prefer shout to weapon mastery on barbs, defiance to zeal on fana zealots, etc.. those would be the analogous situations



     
  16. droid

    droid Diabloii.Net Member

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    Re: Godly Bowazon Build ADVICE NEEDED

    hyperbole :p its only analogous if Mastery lacked the AR and damage bonus. And Zeal is more like Strafe than CS.

    The difference between L16 and L28 CS is 65 to 72%. That's 12 skillpoints for, according to your numbers, a 3.5% increase in DPS. Or you can add, statistically, 4-5% reduction to your damage by topping off DEA.

    Its not like I ever advocated NOT maxing CS, either, if you go back and read...I was saying that you should have at least 16 points in CS as a starter, unless you're a WWS strafer, and then you can finish maxing it out with your final SPs, after other things like Strafe and Valk and Penetrate are taken care of.

    Even with the points in DEA, by L99 you'll have 15 hard points in CS, leaving you with 70% CS as opposed to 72%. Otherwise you're maxed at L94.
     

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