GM, Ford, Toyota tops in Quality.

skihard

Banned
GM, Ford, Toyota tops in Quality.

Looks like the Americans are doing a much better job making there cars now. Finally some good news in the Auto industry.


The Story
 

[exile]

Diabloii.Net Member
This is mostly about initial quality though, and within the first few years.

Something still tells me that American cars are inferior. But I may be kind of biased.

Speaking of bias, I've never been completely sure about J.D. Power and other rating groups. I could be wrong though.
 

Forcefeedback

Diabloii.Net Member
I think there might be some distortion in the poll. It's made in the USA where GM, Ford etc sells expensive cars and Toyota, Honda etc sell cheap cars. Where I live expensive cars are more reliable that the cheap ones.

Anyway, I like that even with hybrids entering the automobile industry the average amount of problems went down several %.
 

skihard

Banned
[exile] said:
This is mostly about initial quality though, and within the first few years.

Something still tells me that American cars are inferior. But I may be kind of biased.

Speaking of bias, I've never been completely sure about J.D. Power and other rating groups. I could be wrong though.

Read it again this was taken by those with cars 3 years old

This year's survey questioned 50,635 owners of 2002 model-year cars and trucks.
Forcefeedback said:
I think there might be some distortion in the poll. It's made in the USA where GM, Ford etc sells expensive cars and Toyota, Honda etc sell cheap cars. Where I live expensive cars are more reliable that the cheap ones.

Anyway, I like that even with hybrids entering the automobile industry the average amount of problems went down several %.
if this was true why was Lexus (Toyota) the best rated name plate???
 

Forcefeedback

Diabloii.Net Member
skihard said:
if this was true why was Lexus (Toyota) the best rated name plate???
from the article said:
Lexus, Toyota's luxury nameplate, was the top-performing brand with 139 problems per 100 vehicles, while Kia was the worst performer with 397 problems.
It's a luxury model, meaning expensive, thus it supports my statement.

Or are you really saying japanese cars are more expensive in general than US cars? :rolleyes:
 

skihard

Banned
I guess I'm not understand how you wrote your statment. Ford and GM along with Toyota and Honda have a full range of prices from $10k up new. I don't consider $10K for a new car as expensive. Every manufacture has a car or 2 in every price range, only some of the "imports" are at the lower end of the price ranges for the model type. example would be Camery vs Five Hundred they are the same catagory of car. Both in the $20k range and only about $1000-$1500 difference in price depending on options with the Camery usually a slight bit lower until you get to the fully loaded versions.

So the report doesn't at all seem distorted.

Also once you go to the luxury brand the Imports tend to be more expensive because they are mostly still built outside of the US.

Here is JDP&A's Report It has a Chart with all brands and where they placed.
 

SelfBaisResistor

Diabloii.Net Member
I would think that with everyone being able to get the GM Employee discount one of two things can happen:

1. Our cars are crappy and we know it, so we'll sell them cheap (I.E. Kia.)

or

2. Maybe we actually have something of quality and we're just trying to break the stereotype that American cars are inferior. With the discount more people would be likely to buy a GM car and perhaps the better quality spreads by word of mouth.

I personally am an Oldsmobile man myself and have never had any problems, aside from normal maintenance.
 

DrunkPotHead

Diabloii.Net Member
My girlfriend bought a new Honda Accord SE Coupe this year. No problems so far, seems like a kick-ass car. :thumbsup:
 

adamfgt78

Diabloii.Net Member
Forcefeedback said:
Or are you really saying japanese cars are more expensive in general than US cars? :rolleyes:
Absolutely. You've got to factor in that the US brands offer huge factory discounts and very low financing. You don't see those offers on the import brands.
 

Stoutwood

Diabloii.Net Member
[exile] said:
This is mostly about initial quality though, and within the first few years.

Something still tells me that American cars are inferior. But I may be kind of biased.

Speaking of bias, I've never been completely sure about J.D. Power and other rating groups. I could be wrong though.
If you think American cars are inferior, you've watched The Fast and the Furious too many times. I had a 1984 F-150 with 210,000 miles on it when I sold it, and it was still running like a dream. For a pickup that's incredible. The Japanese superiority bias is a myth left over from the 80s when American cars were in the dark ages (thanks to emissions regulations). A 20-year recession in Japan and advances in American automotive technology have changed things.
 

Dirty_Zulu

Diabloii.Net Member
Engines are crap, ergonomics are crap, material selections are crap, and their price is crap. That is my experience as a consumer who gave domestics multiple chance. I think my last ounce of patience was exhausted when the Ford I had broke the heater and all the coolant washed into the passenger cabin.

GM in particularly really hasn't produced anything spectacularly new for a long time. Anything they produce would be almost a remold of something old or new parts from different line up to make a new car. And when they do produce something new it would be some wacked job like the Pontiac Aztec.
 

AeroJonesy

Diabloii.Net Member
My family has a 1994 Dodge Caravan with just over 220,000 miles on it. It runs pretty darn good considering how much we've used it. Most new cars these days are quite good. The new Mazda's are awesome, and some of the new Pontiac cars are really nice too. I think GM is trying to shake their image of being crappy American cars, so they are trying to get lots of them out in the market and trying to get people to spread the word. There's no way they'd try to unload a ton of terrible cars by selling them cheaply, I think it would kill the reputation they are trying very hard to build.
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm still driving my dad's 1989 Pontiac. Runs great, and we haven't had any major problems beyond a bit of upkeep (when a care is 15-plus years old, it happens ;) ).
 

Garbad_the_Weak

Diabloii.Net Member
Stoutwood said:
The Japanese superiority bias is a myth left over from the 80s when American cars were in the dark ages (thanks to emissions regulations). A 20-year recession in Japan and advances in American automotive technology have changed things.
Thank you stout. Please copy and paste this 10-20 times so people actually read this.

Garbad
 

Ranger14

Diabloii.Net Member
adamfgt78 said:
Absolutely. You've got to factor in that the US brands offer huge factory discounts and very low financing. You don't see those offers on the import brands.
Hmm, having sold new cars, that is not accurate at all. Many imports offer factory discounts and low financing. The only ones that don't are the high dollar and quality cars like Acura, who don't need to because consumers are willing to pay for what they get. I sold Mazda, Mitsubishi which offer great rebates and low financing. Acura offered good financing, but didn't need to worry about factory discounts.

Someone mentioned GM employee discounts. What a joke! Do people really believe there is an employee discount and the public is going to get the same price? We are far from seeing a consistent sales price for a car to the consumer. It's all a negotiation game and two people can walk into a dealership at the same time and walk out with the same car for a different price. They both probably think they got the "employee discount".
 

Stoutwood

Diabloii.Net Member
Garbad_the_Weak said:
Thank you stout. Please copy and paste this 10-20 times so people actually read this.

Garbad
I'm sure they saw it, but no one takes a guy with a Kazaam avatar seriously.
 

mhl12

Diabloii.Net Member
krzyhobo said:
Aren't there a whole slew of giant Toyota manufacturing plants in the United States now?
many Japanese car companies have manufacturing plants in the U.S., not just Toyota.

I would have to say the American cars are definitely on the rise. The problem is their marketing strategy. The GM employee discount was a total fiasco. My dad has been monitoring the prices for over a year now because we've been looking to buy a GM car. When the employee discount came around, he told me that it was just a scam. There was no price difference at all. And now, I've heard that Chrysler may be doing a employee discount thing as well after GM.

Finally, many of the American car commercials are redundant and sooooo annoying. "0% financing this and $5000 cash back that..." It kinda gets annoying. They should try doing commercials like the ones for European luxury cars where the commercial shows the quality of the car rather the price.
 

Steel_Avatar

Diabloii.Net Member
krzyhobo said:
Aren't there a whole slew of giant Toyota manufacturing plants in the United States now?
That's because only an idiot would build the things in Japan and then ship them over, if he could build them locally instead :rolleyes:
 

skihard

Banned
Let me explain the employee discount for everyone. The discount will not be on the sticker price of the car, truck, whatever. It is a number that is usually hidden from everyone. The reason it is hidden is because the discount, is 5% below dealer invoice. The 5% below dealer invoice is taken from when the dealer purchased the car, truck whatever.

Now this has an impact on the price because of one very big reason, the time the vehicle was purchased. I’ll explain that in a few seconds, but first I need to explain pricing. The big 3 used to do model year price increases once a year (when the new model came out) this resulted in a big sticker price jump and was the reason many in the late 70’s early 80’s would purchase a new previous model year vehicle (sticker shock). However the big 3 learned quickly that this sticker shock kept people from buying so they went to a progressive pricing system that is still in effect. The result is the price is raised between 3-5 times in a model year usually by 1/2% -2% depending on how well the vehicle is selling, or from 1 1/2%-10% over 12 months.

So you were looking at an ExploreBlazer in November, when it was a new model, but decide not to purchase it. You wait and you wait and finally you decide to buy it in July well, there has been 3 price increases on it at an average 1 1/4% or a total of 3 3/4% making your $30,000 SUV $31,125. Well if you compare the 2 times the price is different. However if you do something else you can get yourself a deal. Tell the dealer you want to know when the build date was and purchase the one with the oldest build date. If he won’t tell you look at the ID label on the inside of the door it will tell you. If you do this you can save $1,125 before even starting to negotiate.

Ok, so back to the employee discount now. If you are looking at that ExploreBlazer the dealer invoice is usually 8% below sticker price, this varies per model however. Then take 5% off of that and you have your price. Be aware though that dealers will give you less on your trade in if you purchase with the employee discount. If your are uncertain what the invoice price is ask them to show you the invoice, if they don’t want to then they are trying to cheat you, so go someplace else. There are a few online pricing sites that will give you the invoice price and Ford & GM will give it to you if you “build†your vehicle on they’re website.

Oh and before anyone says they don’t let me clear the slate and say yes the “imports†have the same price increase method as the big 3, and is in fact where the big 3 learned it.
 
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