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Ghostsin mana problem

Discussion in 'Assassin' started by morotsjos, Jun 3, 2005.

  1. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    Ghostsin mana problem

    How the heck do you get enough mana for a ghostsin?

    15/70:s are not an option in europe, and with 08 valk my wwsin has less than 500 mana which means constant manapotting to support mb+traps+tele+ww. How do YOU solve the manaproblem?

    Even with shako and 100 mana amu I only have ~750 mana, which I still feel is a bit low... =/
     
  2. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    I have 800 mana at level 90. 9x life/mana scs, fast cast ring with like 70ish mana, mana on my FC ammy of like 16. Battle orders.

    Here are the key points:
    1. You must have max level battle orders.
    2. You'll need charms.
    3. Look for a FC ring with mana/AR. You can get a lor of mana this way
    4. You'll probably still end up mana potting simply because all of your opponents will also do so. If you don't, then you won't stand a chance against the 95% of public duelers who do (assuming equal skill generally for the sake of argument). It's just a fact of public dueling.


    If you duel where mana pots are prohibited, then you can't really play a ghost very well. But then, lots of builds (windies, etc.) become almost impossible then.
     
  3. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    I have no problems using manapots, I do it all the time with my barb.
    Thing is that while 500 mana is decent for a barb its drained almost instantly for a ghostsin =/

    I suppose I could use some life/mana scs and a fcr-ring.

    Two things though; where do you get your resists & how much ar do you have?
     
  4. Zangeif

    Zangeif IncGamers Member

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    Mana pots work fine for me. You could always use some 20/17s if you really think you need more.
     
  5. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    Remade my sp-ghost, now I score 850 mana ^^
    6-7k ar with enchant seems a bit low though.....
     
  6. '22'Souljah

    '22'Souljah IncGamers Member

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    what's your new setup 6k-7k ar with enchant is low
     
  7. GreatStupidPastry

    GreatStupidPastry IncGamers Member

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    With my sin, I could hold the teleport button for a VERY long time without even noticing I lost any mana.

    Stuff that contribues to that:
    Insight Merc
    Shako
    55 Mana GC
    112 Mana Ring + LL
    Rhyme (Regen Mana 15%)
     
  8. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    [QUOTE='22'Souljah]what's your new setup 6k-7k ar with enchant is low[/QUOTE]
    08 valk
    +2 shadow, 7% fcr, 16 dex, 32 fireres, 101 mana amu
    perf raven
    10% fcr 1xx ar, 80 mana ring
    trangs
    9x life/~15 mana scs.
     
  9. '22'Souljah

    '22'Souljah IncGamers Member

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    i see you sacrificed a lot of stakced resist for mana @@ but whatever works for you
     
  10. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    I'll take a good CoA set-up over a Valk myself. If you design it right, it's just better IMO.
     
  11. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    [QUOTE='22'Souljah]i see you sacrificed a lot of stakced resist for mana @@ but whatever works for you[/QUOTE]
    I just cant see a ghostsin being able to work with anything less than 800 mana... =(
    I am considering switching 1-3 mana scs (or even a shadowskiller) for 20/11 lightres scs and hence cover all resists. The ar is a bigger problem though.

    Speederländer: How can a coa be good at all? Fhr isn't that important, and the str-req is huge...
    Isn't a good circlet better?

    Anyway, post your desired build (with coa I guess?), perhaps I'll see the light =)
     
  12. Davie.

    Davie. IncGamers Member

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    Coa is not better. Huge str req, no cast, no ias inherent for trap laying speed in fade and otherwise.
     
  13. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    My CoA:
    +1 all skills
    30 FHR
    59 res all (crown mod + jewels)
    15 Physical damage reduced
    30 ias (from jewels)

    If you don't like the str requirement, then that means you do NOT wear shadow dancers.

    Further, a rare circlet gives assassin skills, NOT all skills, which the CoA provides. +1 to ALL skills gives an extra level to battle orders (boosting life and mana) and to whirlwind (boosting AR).

    It's the shadow dancer + CoA combo that is superior to ALL. The only other alternative boot to dancers would be gores or some rare with res, etc.

    Shadow dancers:
    +2 shadow skills
    30 FHR
    +25 dex

    With enigma and equipment, you are already approaching the strength to wear dancers. By investing the extra str, you get a return of 25 dex plus a wealth of mods.

    Once you are already at the str for dancers, a little more for CoA is no big deal.

    Provide a superior combo that beats these mods for the stat point investment:
    +1 to ALL skills (including battle orders and WW) --> So this includes a life/mana boost NOT obtainable by a circlet
    60 FHR
    up to 60 res all
    up to 30 ias (if you need ias for trapping, kicking, etc. otherwise there are other mods)
    15 DR (saving 15 skill points from fade to get max (50%) DR)
    +25 dex
    +2 shadow skills


    All this is gotten for a strength investment that really isn't all that excessive.


    Tell me this:
    How much str you have naturally (with your equip), what you socket your valk with, and what boots you wear. Your mods will be inferior and the life you save by conserving the str won't be as much as you think.

    You need 65 FC, which is not difficult to achieve via trangs gloves (needed for posion boost anyway), arachnid, a FC ring w/mods and a FC ammy w/mods. So, the 30 FC on valk is superfluous in the end.

    Additionally, you do NOT want more fast run, since it reduces your WW linger time. So that valk mod happens to actually be undesireable.
     
  14. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    Since I'm on NL I wear duped 30% frw 13 dex 48/49/46 fire/light/cold res boots...
    I have base str -> enough to wear runic/valk which is my heaviest item.
    I think it's around 130 with all gear.

    By adding 3-5 pts in dex I will be able to switch switch fcr-amu+ring for angelics. Still have to keep one raven though.

    The problem is to find a good amu with 15 fcr. I have 7% fcr on mine, but I cant say I would give up the 100 mana for another 8%.

    I haven't decided what to socket valk with yet. Probably um since I need the res, or an ias/res jewel.
    You're right about some pts in str/dex not meaning that much life lost though.
    Some skillpoints less in fade means nothing, you're not really short of skills anyway.

    Lastly, I've played barb for almost a year. I know how to whirl. More frw=better. Much better. Always. Not to mention how nice it is to run at decent pace in town =)

    Btw, where do you get your mana & res?
     
  15. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    Are you teleporting as your primary movement or running? If you don't have tele, then yes, you need run. If tele is your major movement, then more run means you move across your target FASTER with ww. This means fewer hit checks. It also means that it's harder to maintain tight triangular attacks. If you go off a good fhr opponent at all they will tele away. So not much better always.

    In any event, the run speed argument aside, the stats just aren't adding up for the valk.
     
  16. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    Res:
    CoA - 59
    Fade - 68
    FC ammy - 18
    FC ring - 11
    anni - 20

    Total res = 176 before anya

    I can switch out the fury for a jade to add 65 stacked res. I almost never need to do so however.

    I have 800 mana. 8x life/mana sc, 24 mana on the ammy, like 70ish on the ring. With battle orders I'm at 800 at clvl 90.
     
  17. '22'Souljah

    '22'Souljah IncGamers Member

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    don't know about you but i need some extra faster run walk to do a 'drive by ww' on a necro after i'm golem slowed
    teleporting out right after you try to hit and run him just doesn't work for me i end up getting hit by bone spirits
    i also find faster run walk to be a little useful if i'm up against two people at a time because if you're getting spammed at both ways then you try to tele out you'll just have claw block lokc or go into fhr
    whirlwinding out works but ww is slower compared to straight running so they may get in extra hits
    what i usually do is run away a little then i tele away maybe that's why i find faster run walk useful
    valk gives your sin that gosu look ~.^
    with a valk you also aren't required to have fcr on the ammy and ring
    you can swap out your maras for angelic combo, 1 absorb ring, or a natures peace for that oak life boost
     
  18. morotsjos

    morotsjos Banned

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    With faster running you just have to do better wws. Not that hard, and as I said I'm used to it on my bvc-barb. Actually I HATE slow whirling, not to mention it's way harder to dodge attacks with slow running speed. Slow whirls=less control which is bad bad bad, you have less time to react and change if (when) need be. The assasin still wont move faster than my barb, hence I maintain 3 checks/ww. Dont need more than that with flowing triangles.
    You tele all the time btw? When I play my barb I run most of the time, and do short tele-bursts.

    Anyway, you've been really helpful. I've gotten most info I wanted, just have to build him now. I'm fairly convinced that my setup is the best attainable at the moment, assuming my valk doesn't poof ^^
    If I rebuild sometime I might consider building around a circlet instead, but then I'll have to find a 15% fcr amu... =/
    Thanks for all help!

    '22'Souljah: The kickass look is definately the best reason to use valk, I love it =)
     
  19. Speederländer

    Speederländer IncGamers Member

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    Hey man, this approach is a mistake. Seriously. The whole point of a ghost is the fastcast teleport. When teleporting you have clawblock running. When you run, claw block drops to zero, making you just a weaker form of barb with poison damage. Claw block is absolutely critical. The most common way for me to lose vs. any caster is to get sloppy and run, thereby taking a FB or BS full in the face with no defence against it.
    You should be dodging attacks with teleport, not by running.
     
  20. '22'Souljah

    '22'Souljah IncGamers Member

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    15% fcr on ammy is overkill! you only need 5% on it assuming you use trangs, arachinds, and a 20% fcr circlet
     

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