Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Well as many of you know, the ladder is resetting soon. When it does, my trapper will be converted to NL. I'm strongly thinking about remaking her into one of the following:
~Hybrid WW/Trapper~
~Ghost~
-or-
Keep it at LS, but remake.
The one I'm most interested in is probably the hybrid, because of the gear I have. Here's a few questions:
1.) Which build do you think I should make, to handle most other builds.
2.) Which gear/set-up do you recommend for the build that you recommend?

Here's a few screenshots of some goodies for a could-be Hybrid: (These might not show up right due to the fact that they were originally posted on another forum. I posted the stats under the code.

Helm:

2Assassin
20FCR
26Strength
87Attack Rating
1Open Socket
I think this would be a GFG helm for a hybrid or ghost sin.

FCR Crafted Ring:

10FCR
2LL
20Strength
6Dexterity
13Life
Another GG option for any of the builds.
35Mana

I pulled a dumbass move (considering the ladder is resetting) and gave away my claws to a freind, so I'm praying he still has. The claws were pretty decent:

Chaos Runic Talons
2Lightning Sentry

Fury Feral Claws:
1Venom
2Mind Blast


I won't actually make this character for a while, and when I do I'm remaking the BvC also. I would like to wait til I have all or close to all of the gear.

Open for ANY and ALL help and recommendations.
 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Wow, swing and a miss on 2 forums. Don't make me resolve in a certain www.d2#$%.org :D
Some input on this please?
 

TienJe

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

it just depends mostly on what your playstyle is. ghosts are more conducive to offensive play, whereas hybrids are a tad bit more defensive. hybrids fare better vs melee builds and paladins, whereas ghosts are built for caster matchups.

both builds can take on almost any other build though, so just pick the one you feel the most comfortable with.
 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

it just depends mostly on what your playstyle is. ghosts are more conducive to offensive play, whereas hybrids are a tad bit more defensive. hybrids fare better vs melee builds and paladins, whereas ghosts are built for caster matchups.

both builds can take on almost any other build though, so just pick the one you feel the most comfortable with.
Well I actually have no experience with a Ghost, and little experience with a Hybrid. I feel that I should pick one of those over Pure LS, considering I play on West NL, where no one is scared to sorb the hell out of you. I was looking for someone's perspective that have tried both builds. I also have a Bvc, which can take out most casters, so I might go with a Hybrid.


 

TienJe

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Well I actually have no experience with a Ghost, and little experience with a Hybrid. I feel that I should pick one of those over Pure LS, considering I play on West NL, where no one is scared to sorb the hell out of you. I was looking for someone's perspective that have tried both builds. I also have a Bvc, which can take out most casters, so I might go with a Hybrid.
despite the name bvc, i don't think the barb is super adept at killing casters. you'll find that the ghost does a much better job of it. in terms of how the characters match-up against other builds, the bvc probably matches the hybrid closer than it does the ghost.

if you already have a bvc, i would probably just make a pure trapper, just so you can span the largest distance across the "build domain" with your two characters. trappers are of the most effective characters when played correctly (especially in tpk), and i think the threat of absorb is greatly exaggerated. you can still hurt characters with 95 res, and usually 95 res means that they will be opening themselves up to the other characters in the duel game.

just dodge the ones absorbing you and focus on the ones you can kill. you'll always have to pick your fights, even with the ghost or hybrid, regardless of whether or not they are absorbing.

if you really want to make a ghost or a hybrid, then i say just flip a coin. i myself am partial to the ghost, and many others will tell you to go hybrid, but its impossible to objectively argue one to be better than the other. its all just a matter of preference.

i'm sure you'll have the opportunity to switch sins if the choice you made doesn't seem to be working out, since they share much of the same gear.



 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

despite the name bvc, i don't think the barb is super adept at killing casters. you'll find that the ghost does a much better job of it. in terms of how the characters match-up against other builds, the bvc probably matches the hybrid closer than it does the ghost.

if you already have a bvc, i would probably just make a pure trapper, just so you can span the largest distance across the "build domain" with your two characters. trappers are of the most effective characters when played correctly (especially in tpk), and i think the threat of absorb is greatly exaggerated. you can still hurt characters with 95 res, and usually 95 res means that they will be opening themselves up to the other characters in the duel game.

just dodge the ones absorbing you and focus on the ones you can kill. you'll always have to pick your fights, even with the ghost or hybrid, regardless of whether or not they are absorbing.

if you really want to make a ghost or a hybrid, then i say just flip a coin. i myself am partial to the ghost, and many others will tell you to go hybrid, but its impossible to objectively argue one to be better than the other. its all just a matter of preference.

i'm sure you'll have the opportunity to switch sins if the choice you made doesn't seem to be working out, since they share much of the same gear.

Might have to remake my trapper then. Any input on the best 1v1 character? I want to "try" to make the best character for being the most effective against the most classes. I want one that, with practice and testing, can take on the most builds. Ofc, this will end up being an opinion, but after having a looksie at your guide it's obvious you're very experienced at Pvp. Thanks for all the help and input so far.


 

TienJe

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Might have to remake my trapper then. Any input on the best 1v1 character? I want to "try" to make the best character for being the most effective against the most classes. I want one that, with practice and testing, can take on the most builds. Ofc, this will end up being an opinion, but after having a looksie at your guide it's obvious you're very experienced at Pvp. Thanks for all the help and input so far.
hybrids and ghosts are very comparable when you look at effectiveness across the entire pvp match-up spectrum. i'm going to go out on a limb and say that the ghost has a steeper learning curve (because you don't have the option of camping traps), though others are bound to object to that.

personally, i like the ghost build because the skill choices seem to supplement each other, whereas a hybrid (at least to me) seems like two sins slapped together into a sort of compromise, which doesn't sit well with me, even though the build works just fine.

hybrids lend themselves very well to camping/defensive play, so you'll see quite a few of them around in the hands of the inexperienced. just don't take the number of ghost vs hybrid to be an indicator as to which build is better. the one that works better will really depend mostly on which build you can play the best, so you'll have to decide/try for yourself.

EDIT: also take into account what kind of characters are in your dueling arena. by common logic, paladin-filled pub games would be best countered by hybrids, whereas caster-dominated games would call for a ghost. if you're sticking to pubs and find that most of your opponents are poorly equipped, a trapper will probably be the best bet.



 

RxT

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

When I was deciding my main PvP build I went with the Ghost Sin. It's incredibly fun and effective if played correctly. The main objective is to always be on the offensive and pressure the other person. It takes a lot of time to get good at it. I'm not even good at using the Ghost still.

I switched over the a Hybrid Sin because they were a bit more effective in pubs due to Paladin-filled games such as TienJe said. In my opinion, they're easier to use, too. You have good damaging traps to supplement your Whirwind.

If you don't mind switching builds and making more chars, I suggest first making a Ghost to get used to namelocking and stunning. Once you have that down switch over to a Hybrid and play as offensively as you were with the Ghost. Throw in a WoF or two and you're set.
Doing that will turn you into an offensive Hybrid player instead of the usual defensive. Basically, for me, I play my Hybrid as if I play a Ghost. It's just heavier damage in my eyes.
 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Ok so Ghost aren't good for barbs and dins? (Smiters/hdins/chagers)
And Hybrid have more trouble with casters. I think I'm gonna remake my hybrid sin, because all the pubs are flooded with tmc dins and lifetap smiters lol.
 

TienJe

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Ok so Ghost aren't good for barbs and dins? (Smiters/hdins/chagers)
And Hybrid have more trouble with casters. I think I'm gonna remake my hybrid sin, because all the pubs are flooded with tmc dins and lifetap smiters lol.
ghosts can kill paladins, but you have to be pretty good at playing it to win. it requires a lot of hit and run. low-end barbs you can overpower, but you can actually win against a good number of bvcs if you get good at using a widow switch.

hybrids are better against bvcs/paladins when they don't stack resistance/absorb, but when they do, it'll be tougher on you because you have less damage/ar and can't take as much punishment. and on the flipside, hybrids arent as good at killing casters, but that shouldn't be interpreted as a weakness; they're just slightly less awesome at it :thumbup:.



 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

ghosts can kill paladins, but you have to be pretty good at playing it to win. it requires a lot of hit and run. low-end barbs you can overpower, but you can actually win against a good number of bvcs if you get good at using a widow switch.

hybrids are better against bvcs/paladins when they don't stack resistance/absorb, but when they do, it'll be tougher on you because you have less damage/ar and can't take as much punishment. and on the flipside, hybrids arent as good at killing casters, but that shouldn't be interpreted as a weakness; they're just slightly less awesome at it :thumbup:.
Damnit lol you put the ghost back in the mix for me. Hmmm, Ghost/Hybrid is the decision for me. I've got untill ATLEAST the 17th, so no pressure on rushing. Ok I'm going to read through your guide again, check out a few things again. Thanks for ALL of your help Tienje


 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Ok Tienje. After carefully reading through it, I've decided the best choice for me is indeed a Ghost. For my gear I have lots of qeustions:
1.) I think this is one of the bigger questions when considering gear for the Ghost.
CoA/ 2or1/15Amulet or Circlet/FCRRing?

2.) As far as claws go I have:
Fury 1Venom/2MindBlast Feral Claws
Chaos 2LS Runic Talons
a.)Will these claws do the trick? If not I can try to find some with better skills.
b.)With these claws am I hitting 9FPA Trap laying speed?
c.)What type of Fools Mod'd claw would I benefit from the best. A good one, but not too expensive? What Claw Type on it? What's some of the skills to look for on it?

3.)For Charms:
a.)The best charm set-up would be 9xshadow lifers?
b.)What's the best option as far as small charms go? I'm going to put any ar/life etc. charms I have and get on the Bvc, so those are out of the picture. I definetly have a good 15-20x20Vitas. I have around 10x5FHR's and a few 5Resists.

BOOTS!
1.) Should I really go with Treks if I can't find a good pair of tri resist boots?

So far this is what I'm thinking:
~Helmet~
2Sin/20FCR/26Strength/87AR 1Open Socket
Shako (Stash)

~Armor~
Duskshroud Nigma (I like the looks)
Bramble (Stash)

~Weapons~
Chaos Runic Talons +2LS
Fury Feral Claws +1Venom/+2MindBlast
Fools Mod'd Runic/Feral/GT with Base IAS and some nice mods.
CTA
5GA Widowmaker(Stash/Switch)
Eth Tucs (Stash)

~Gloves/Belt/Boots~
Trangs
Arachnids
Good Rare Boots (Fhr/frw/Resists)
or
Treks

~Jewelry~
Maras Kaleideoscope
20/200+ Raven Frosts
10/AR/20Strength/6Dex/1XLife/35Mana Ring (Was luckily to get this before the ladder reset was announced, waiting for the 17th to have it on NL o_O)

~Charms~
20/X Torch
15+/15+/x Annihilus
Enough Shadow FHR GCs to hit 48Fhr
Enough Shadow Lifer to fill the Inventory
Combination of Resist/Life and other small charms to fill the remaining 10spots.

I'm strongly thinking about buying the works on Sorb gear for the Tmc/Aa/Gook etc. and BM duelers.

That's considering the recommended option is the Circlet over CoA, in which case I have both. I don't yet have a Maras or a 2/15 Amulet on NL (I was going to convert fully to ladder and sold a lot fo my NL stuff including 2x 30Maras, and then 2 days ladder they announce reset is coming....) but I'm posisitive I can get either relatively easy. I will most likely make this build to start practicing, then when I have the entire build exactly how I want it, I'll remake to perfect it. Well thanks for all the great advice so far, hopefully you can help me further with this. :D
 

struikje

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

I followed tienje's ghostbuild myself too, with a little difference offcourse.

I'm not superbe on a ghost, but I can reccomend it over a trapper, as I've played both.
I have used a fury for a while, but decided to shop for a fools claw at anya myself.

I've gotten a fools greater talons of the bear (knockback) rather fast, and gotten lucky to put 2 um's in it. The extra ar is really helpful for me, as I lacked decent ar/life charms to take on those smiters. My ghost can take on most of the pub smiters, unless a high def tele smiter comes in (rather rare).

As amulet, a highlords wrath is very decent for the price. A coa is rather high in strenght req, and you'll get your DR from fade anyway I think, I'd use that circlet.

As far as sorb goes, I didn't have the wealth to afford some backup amulets to switch a fcr ring for a whisp/dwarf, but I never quit needed it, claw block + offensive play killed casters rather fast without dying.

Just My 2 cents :)
 

TienJe

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Ok Tienje. After carefully reading through it, I've decided the best choice for me is indeed a Ghost. For my gear I have lots of qeustions:
1.) I think this is one of the bigger questions when considering gear for the Ghost.
CoA/ 2or1/15Amulet or Circlet/FCRRing?

2.) As far as claws go I have:
Fury 1Venom/2MindBlast Feral Claws
Chaos 2LS Runic Talons
a.)Will these claws do the trick? If not I can try to find some with better skills.
b.)With these claws am I hitting 9FPA Trap laying speed?
c.)What type of Fools Mod'd claw would I benefit from the best. A good one, but not too expensive? What Claw Type on it? What's some of the skills to look for on it?

3.)For Charms:
a.)The best charm set-up would be 9xshadow lifers?
b.)What's the best option as far as small charms go? I'm going to put any ar/life etc. charms I have and get on the Bvc, so those are out of the picture. I definetly have a good 15-20x20Vitas. I have around 10x5FHR's and a few 5Resists.
these are all addressed in the guide



 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Allright thanks for the input struikje.
I bought a package that came with these goodies:


~20/20 Sin Torch~



~2/25 SDancers~



~2Sin/15Ias/20Fcr/16Str/Resists Circle~



~775/15ED MP Nigma~



~20IAS/263ED/Fools Mod/2Shadow Master GTs~



~1Venom/1Dragon Flight/3MindBlast Chaos GTs~



~3Lightning Sentry Fury GTs~
 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

So would the original claws I have be better or the ones I just bought? I won't have any of that package stuff listed till the 17th lol.
 

Moritz

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

I second what RxT said some posts ago.


I have played Ghost, hybrid ww/ls (very intensive) and trapper. Now I am back to trapper.
If I made another d2 char (which wont happen) it would be Ghost.
I played my hybrid for a quite long time and it's a strong character. Strengths compared to ghost have been pointed out already, weaknesses are probably necro (gets much harder without max MB and significantly lower ww dmg) but you will pretty easily kill the other casters. I also found hybrid more comfortable against pure trappers compared to ghost but maybe thats just me.
I definitly enjoyed to play hybrid and I dont regret it so if you like the char concept go for it. For me, it was just time for something new. I got lots of videos online out of the hybrid's perspective, just search for "MoritzLLD" @ youtube.

I also suggest you to think about rebuilding a pure trapper at 102fc cc with a 102/86 maxblock w/s switch (wont cost a lot of life). I would go for max mindblast, 1 FBlast, 1 fade, 1 SM, 1 WoF, 1 DT, rest LS + syns.
I think tienje also posted a guide about trappers.
Trappers are much better in tvts than ghosts or hybrids and I personally didnt even find them weaker in 1v1s. I feel very very comfortable with max mindblast on trapper and if you mix traps, mindblast, fireblast and kicks with a fools for OW you will be able to beat any character.


oh, on a sidenote. I personally think that trappers and ghosts (the ''pure" builds) are kinda more solid than hybrid. it's hard to explain but mainly the lack of max MB with all thats connected to that and the low ww dmg will get you hit more often and lose more tankouts eventually.
 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

Allright thanks for the input struikje.
I bought a package that came with these goodies:


~20/20 Sin Torch~



~2/25 SDancers~



~2Sin/15Ias/20Fcr/16Str/Resists Circle~



~775/15ED MP Nigma~



~20IAS/263ED/Fools Mod/2Shadow Master GTs~



~1Venom/1Dragon Flight/3MindBlast Chaos GTs~



~3Lightning Sentry Fury GTs~
Would those claws be better than the first set I posted, and would the fools one work?


 

Davidus

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

im brainstorming on a lot of builds so im not sure i want to make an assa or not for the new season but heres my question:D

if i go for assa i make a kicker+ds hybrid. pvm only

skills

20 Dtalon
20 Dsentry
3 Fblast

c/c or x/s ?
fade or bos ? fade is more useful for an untwinked char? or i going to regret maxing fade later?:p
 

aoaa

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: Ghost, Hybrid, or Pure Trap?

im brainstorming on a lot of builds so im not sure i want to make an assa or not for the new season but heres my question:D

if i go for assa i make a kicker+ds hybrid. pvm only

skills

20 Dtalon
20 Dsentry
3 Fblast

c/c or x/s ?
fade or bos ? fade is more useful for an untwinked char? or i going to regret maxing fade later?:p

Hopefully someone else here can answer your question, because sadly I can not. I'm relatively new to assassins, so I wouldn't want to give you any false information.


 
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