Latest Diablo 3 News
DiabloWiki Updates
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

Discussion in 'PvP' started by Moritz, Jul 11, 2008.

  1. Moritz

    Moritz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    i will now finish the ghost that i rushed 2 months ago :pancake:


    @@@ the next part is mostly directed towards dave, max, rod and andrew @@@


    talked to chris yesterday and we literally got everything for it laying around on mules apart from claws (pretty perfect stuff even) so we can mess around a bit in 1v1s and i also wanna try it in tvts.
    we have been thinking of ghost as a substitute for druid in the standard barb/trap/bone/druid build. chris could play trapper and i could play ghost (so we could play together + skype yay). i think 2 sins with max MB plus bvc should be able to dish out pretty awesome stun and the ghost will be built with a high amount of physical damage so it will also take the damage dealing role of the windy (amp etc).

    what do you guys think about in general and is there anything you might wanna change for tvt equipment wise compared to the standard 1v1 ghost?
    e.g. AR-wise since all characters will have high defense due to shout, maybe any other stuff? btw it's gm on eunl to buff enchant from demon limb

    ?!?!?!?! thanks
     
  2. Xombie

    Xombie IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: OT: The Only On Topic Off Topic Thread!

    replacing the ghost for druid could work but of course almost any team composition could work...

    gogo, sin/nec/bar/vt plx <-

    but to be honest, i would still prefer to have a druid over a phys ghost on my team since a druid is just too scary lmao

    but then again, amped ghost whirl is pretty damn strong :<



     
  3. Moritz

    Moritz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: OT: The Only On Topic Off Topic Thread!

    wellll druids die too fast and all he can do is deal quick damage. oak dies too quickly to be of great importance (duels are being held on hell so it isnt PI). out of my experience druid is close to useless against a team with a barb that knows where to leap and when to leap.
    im not saying druid is bad but still i wanna try this.

    i can see it work pretty nicely ... 2 sins together will create quick stunlocks very fast and ghost can stomp just like a druid with the difference that they would do less damage (or .. would they? i mean since WW hits quite a lot faster than druids can cast nados) but they can whirl over WSGing chars and the poison damage and OW are useful as well.
    also i could imagine that the bvc in the team can deal more damage since there will be more occasions for him to get in. you also basically get more mapcontrol.
    and well .. me and chris could play together then^^ and i want to play a sin for sure, and so does he i guess.


    @dave: could you tell me how much physical damage your ghost deals? without venom and magic damage from chaos, thanks.

    @mike: thanks but i actually only wanted to hear dave's/max's/rod's/andrew's opinions even though i'm already almost certain about the build.

    i think the only questions are whether fools would be very profitable compared to fury and how to distribute the inventory. and i think i already know the answers so let me post my thoughts on this (remember this is for tvt only):
    as for fury vs fools ... OW isnt as important in tvts as in 1on1s since all characters basically have much more life which means that the main reason for fury loses of importance.
    also i will have enchant which will sky rocket my AR together with fools (which will add about 15xx base ar).
    then with fools i would lose the -12.5% def which is negligible with shout, and i would lose 33%ds which will be partly balanced out by higher %ED and the max dmg from fools.
    the IAS on fury will probably be NP since i think we will play with clawbug, not sure though because WSG can be useful at times but then again we at least will always have ww to do a quick whirl to avoid stomps from hdins/druids etc chars that have to stand right on top in order to hit.
    as for automods .. i will probably only use random eth chaos/fury and make new ones when they break since it's cheap and they last longer than you would think, which means that i wont be able to choose my automods on them, besides that they arent really that important on ghost. venom will be useless as i am planning to use 2 x 6 venom claws for both venom and fade buff on switch because i dont need cta in tvts .. i will skill all the one point wonders so the only really useful skill would be mindblast.

    AAAAAAAFTER ALL it comes down to whether the slightly higher base damage of a fools together with the massive AR boost overcomes all the small pros of fury!?
    i think fools might be stronger.


    PS: we also have a 350+ED 60max 2 CM ebug 2sock scissor suwayyah on europe but it would have to be secondary. but deals mega damage, might be worth it.

    PPS: what you think ... in tvt: LO > UM in claws? OW will be of much less use with the high life and raw damage will be much more powerful with AMP.

    /PPPS: wow now i completely forgot about the inventory. i was thinking about 3-5 skillers and rest life/ar, max/ar/life and life/res. thoughts?


    thanks for reading and answering haehahehae

    Regards,
    Dercanegel aka the assa perfectionizer #1
     
  4. TienJe

    TienJe IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: OT: The Only On Topic Off Topic Thread!

    http://img244.imageshack.us/img244/9338/screenshot074zq6.jpg

    the physical damage on it looks like it just about matches up with a grief wearing bvc's char screen, but thats without the +damage on grief being added in. seems like ghost = plain BA wearing bvc :(

    i've tried ghosts in tpk, but even with the physical build and amp, the damage isn't high enough for 4v4's, especially when the other team has barb bo and oak. where a druid would kill in 3 nados, it takes me like 7 whirls. ghosts are sort of slow damage dealers/stunners, which are already fulfilled by the trapper/necro/bvc. the fourth person on the team really needs to be a different type of damage dealer, mainly something that can apply a lot of damage very quickly, to round out the team. you can think of the other 3 players as the ones that cause the confusion for this fourth player to act on (the druid is almost always the one that gets the kills over here on west). druid seems to be a logical choice, since the nados are half unblockable and do tremendous damage. in a realm where most characters are max block, i would assume this would be the first choice. druids just have to be smart about when to jump, picking mostly on the necro or the other druid when they're stunned, and jumping the trapper only when the situation is absolutely perfect. make sure your druid uses WSG or they'll probably die first in almost every round. iono, druids in tpk with amp are just really scary to me. if you aren't running south or teleporting the moment a druid finds you, you're probably dead within 2 seconds.

    but like andrew said, i was thinking about replacing a druid with a good v\t also. the v\t would be able to dish out grief smite ( i think its ~7-8k damage) at 6 fpa, which is much faster than a druid can deal. the conviction would also work great as a passive aura when the paladin is looking for an opening, to make your teams traps hurt a hell of a lot more. the problem here is finding a good paladin team dueler. in all my years playing, i've probably only found one paladin player i'd want on my team. my worries with a v\t is that the movement will be sort of slow, since charging around is a big slower than teleporting (and they won't be able to CL as well), so the paladin might be a little late on the jumps, and that it might be very hard to hit someone that's being MB and KB'd away, especially at 174 fcr.

    another idea i was playing around with for 4v4 was to use the bvc to "make way" for the druid/nec during jumps. when the trapper catches someone, the bvc can jump in, but instead of whirling, can start leaping right next to the stunned target, keeping the other players from jumping into the vicinity and saving the target, letting the druid and necro jump in and kill without too much of a hiccup. the only problem with this is the opposing bvc, which can do a whirl at your leaping barb through the leap and throw the entire thing off. if you had a barb with a huge amount of leap though, this setup could be ridiculously annoying. your trapper/bvc could be like two teams of siege tanks, alternating their siege modes to advance.

    EDIT: aww i get 300-600 ping on europe. i was hoping i could play with you guys.



     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2008
  5. Moritz

    Moritz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: OT: The Only On Topic Off Topic Thread!

    ooooooooook thanks for answer but i will try it whatsoever.
    any thoughts concerning the claw/inv thing?

    anyway .. possible that your low AR restricted you from dealing more damage in a shorter amount of time?
    7k seems like pretty low against shouted chars, even normal casters. so even if they only have like 7k def your cth would drop to 50% (assuming same clvl), which means your damage output will be kinda crippled. [chris just told me our trapper had 9k def c/c already with shout e.g.]
    remember i can use demon limb which gives +218% AR, possibly fools, and probably lots of 32020s or even 20/36s (opinions?), and then ofc the basic stuff like ravens, dex-ar and fc ring ar (80+) etc etc.
    also the ghost would have 2 x 6venom 2sock (facetted of course) claws on switch. dont know whether you used that when u tried, every bit helps^^

    ps. hmmm too bad i we could have gotten you a pretty kickass char for free play otherwise.
    strange since i do know some people from US who play on europe without problems, but then again i cannot play d2pk properly while other euros can ..
     
  6. Moritz

    Moritz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: OT: The Only On Topic Off Topic Thread!

    pps. wont work on europe. i know we discussed a lot about bow tvt teams but i just cant imagine that your bow teams can match ours if it's so easy for you to pk them. thats another reason why i find druids arent that great and why i think that additional heavy stun could be a key, dont know though. ill quickly explain how the team works.
    bow/barb/hammerdin/boner.
    - bow = lots of vita, duno exactly how top teams play them but they get 5-6k with barb bo. stacked resist as much as they like, knockback, ~6 k GA without support at 7 frame speed with very high crit, fast rw blabla standard, high def with shout, possible CA. they actually tank lots. mass spams multi, GA snipelines and vs single opponents. tits/ss on switch. also europe's bugbelt (1skill 10ias 10slow 15str 25dex 20prism 20%DR 5%dual leech) makes them a lot stronger.
    - barb = leapwhore tank bva. maxblock if needed, max DR, 8.1 k life without oak at maxblock (its exactly what WeP's barb has. maybe carries pre-bo stuff in cube @ inv), max shout, max leap, all possible GM sorb/max res options available.
    most important task: leap exactly where it's needed (usually close to zon), not to die, give hilariously high BO and shout level. protect zon. leap leap leap leap.
    - boner = same as on rush teams. amp amp amp, ibs spam, spear stomp when needed, spear team members that are being rushed. BP is banned on europe tvts.
    - hammerdin = main killer besides zon. 9 pc skillers + hoto = ~15k dmg (?! duno). uses oak from hoto. since BP is banned, they are hard to get by and they can always retreat into the leap/multi if under heavy pressure. supports conc (dmg)/vigor (ama escapes)/CLEANSING (vs amp) if needed for zon.
    leap + KB multispam + really fast locking hammerdin = fast damage. and by fast locking i mean really fast telestomping playstyle, no syncwhore through the moor.
    example of europe's most successful tvt team's hdin, sadly only fun pks (posting this since euro newschool hammerdins play different than most of ''your'' hammerdins )... gotta ask paul to do some tvt recordings sometime, the quick sync + stomps/chainlocks work great with leap:
    http://media.putfile.com/DIABLO-2-DUELS

    numbers statted are real and closed eunl realm.
    sooo basically i find druid cant get in at all, at least i cant see how.
    if you want to break this team if well played, you have to stop the barb from leaping before doing anything else since he is the basis to regroup, which means kill or stunlock. in order to do so, you have to get through leap first, get through multi spam often with amp on your head, avoid the hammerlocks, avoid the spears/spirits blabla.
    in other words the rush has to be very very coordinated and every player has to play almost perfectly or the rush will fail which means heavy damage and/or death on your side.
    dont get me wrong, i am not in love with that team build, i just want to find a way to break it with an offensive team, or at least find a way not to lose 5 to 0-2.
    i and the people i play with have surely not enough practise/coordination together yet but even with perfect play it's not going to be easy at all i guess.

    ppps. found a tvt vid from such a team from last ladder. as you can see, the opponent team was not coordinated and didnt have the slightest chance. it was 7-0.
    http://media.putfile.com/WeP-vs-AK47

    pppps. of course only some people are playing this team but we have never really had too many problems against other teams that looked like ours.

    ppppps. please dont forget about the AR/fools/inv questions haha sry for mega walls of text
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2008
  7. TienJe

    TienJe IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ghost assassin discussion thread ^_^

    this is why you need to be patient. you can't just bum-rush into them when they're setup like that. there's really no stronger team against a bum-rush than a good camp team.

    being patient means you wear them down with long range necro spirits, and use corners to your advantage. remember that your team has the mobility, since every one of your team can teleport. use walls to shield your team from the zon while the necro spirits from the protection of the protruding edges of the corners or floats around beyond MS range. i used to play zon in tpk, and dueling an off-the-map or corner hugging team would rage the hell out of me. we would eventually all fall to spammed bone spirits unless we moved, and in most cases, my teammates would leave me temporarily because they moved faster. zon spam also costs a **** load of mana, so the zons really can't keep up their pre-emptive spam for very long before feeling the costs.

    (...btw is bone wall gm? you could spam that to block out arrows...)

    the point in all this, as i'm sure you're well aware, is to stop the zon from firing long enough for your team to jump on screen. you might actually kill 1-2 of the opposing team with the spam in the process.

    once you get your bvc into leap range, you will really throw off their "system". just like the opposing bvc can stun your team with leap, your bvc can also do the same, even through the other barb's leaps, once you're on screen.

    watch this video @ http://media.putfile.com/Leap : the opposing bvc is leaping with a rogue merc to simulate the shooting zon. your bvc will be able to teleport into leap range and start leaping himself, stunning the other team. the bvc is actually able to attack the zon through the leap if needed.

    with the help of your trapper, you can actually break the opposing bvc's leap pretty easily if refuses to stop leaping. at this point it becomes kind of messy, but you should see that you should have the advantage in any scenario at this distance.

    adding a ghost into the mix could work as well, though it seems like it doesn't really address the problem of the rampant hdin that seems to cause you guys so much trouble. if you're making the assumption that a ghost will be able to set up stun, i think you should assume that the trapper will do a better job of it, and should just leave that job to the trapper. your team's bvc will be enough to provide the aoe stun effect anyway.

    p.s. you might want to switch to a c\c setup when facing a leap-intense team, since the claw block can block leap stun and give you time to cast.



     
  8. Moritz

    Moritz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: OT: The Only On Topic Off Topic Thread!

    hmmm yeah that leap thing might work. sin(s) could possibly stop the zon from firing at a certain point and this is where barb would rush in and start leaping.
    however the opponent barb will also be able to leap still which means that the rushing team will have problems executing their attacks. opponent barb would have to be stomped at that point which means he would either die or wsg/whirl instead of leaping. and thats where druid/ghost + necro get to pick on the rest of the team with amp/nado and spears. i can see the druid doing this much better, agreed. i think what i wrote in this paragraph is pretty much what you wanted to tell me in a shorter form, right?
    still not easy to find an occasion to do all that or to get into that first leap VS leap situation without your barb dying to arrows as he gets into close distance for effective leap.

    as for ranged etc .. their team will have a necro spamming ibs as well and a zon spamming iga lines. do you think a druid's zoo that stands in front of the team can more or less completely sorb those projectiles?

    oh btw as soon as your barb gets in for leap leap leap while the opponent barb is still leaping as well it would not be so bad to have a ghos as she can whirl = ignore leap.

    also gotta say that zon teams that play with hdins are not that unmobile because vigor aura = eFRW and makes zon run really really fast.

    btw by playing corners you mean something like this? http://s5.directupload.net/images/080712/g6pz7zy9.jpg
    barb leaps, druid blocks missiles, trapper hides :)D) and necro spams ibs lines? just so i get what you mean.

    hmm i think the barb in our team could play either as bva to stand against arrowspam long enough or play with a grief/beast and a grief/ss switch, would cost 6-7 BO and shout levels though ...

    and yeah i play cc against such teams anyway, necro and hammerdin kill you way too fast otherwise. we got 42 DR with CC anyways and the chance to block and faster block rate cant make up for clawblock vs bone/hdin/leap imho

    oh and yeah BW is gm.


    ps. do you guys think ghosts can work at 102fc in tvts? given the same equipment including fools, chant blabla - only HL, raven, circ vs 17+fc ammy, fc ring, griffons. if we can find another decent AR fc ring the loss of AR shouldnt be too big. the loss of DS hurts but it would basically make you be able to play like the trapper apart from the fact that you cant deal damage with traps but can go for WW.
    i can see it work, am i missing anything?
     
  9. TienJe

    TienJe IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: OT: The Only On Topic Off Topic Thread!

    yea, thats what i mean by playing corners, except you can also use the corners during your attack. when you spam them with ibs, they will inevitably head towards a corner or some sort of wall for cover, in which you can use the adjacent wall as a jump point, like the barb did in the beginning of that leap vs leap video. you don't need to use the trapper to stop the zon if the zon can't hit you while you advance, which i think would have been pretty impossible with the leap anyway. the point is just that you don't want to rush straight at the other zon team. stick together and use terrain until you can advance at them without teleporting through arrow/leap spam.

    (oh and just to be clear about the "bvc leaping", i hope you meant leaping behind the corner and not rushing the other team himself to start the leap battle)

    your druid can help block projectiles, but if BW is GM, you should be using a lot of that (you can probably use corners less if you can use BW). you can use your mobility and float off-map to change the angle, since you guys are able to. the zon team won't be able to move as much, so you'll know where they are.

    as for the opponent barb leap, if you get your barbs into a leap battle, you'll eventually push the other team out of their barbs leap range as well, where your trapper/druid/necro combo will clearly be the favorite to win. it would be pretty idiotic for the opposite team to wsg back into the leap for protection ;). there's really no need to KILL the other barb first, you just need to deal with the leap, so you can either force the other players out of range, break it with the help of a trapper/ghost, or i guess you can spike it, though you'll probably want to focus on the zon if you're able to attack at that point.

    regarding the ghost, i think you'll just have to try it for yourself. the only issue to me is the lack of "spiking" damage on your team, but if you don't feel the damage is too low for the position its taking, then it would work better than the druid for you.

    mmm 65 vs 102... i would say go 102 if you don't have to sacrifice anything, but i don't think thats the case, right? if you're going 102, you would probably want 9 shadow gc setup, because no HL and a fools claw makes a physical build pretty useless.



     
  10. Uncle_Mike

    Uncle_Mike D2 PvP Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2003
    Messages:
    6,970
    Likes Received:
    27
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    There, my first artificial thread :whistling:

    What's up with the "^______^" in the title Moritz?
     
  11. Xombie

    Xombie IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    vs a zon team all you gotta do is, as one of my friends puts it, "play tetris" (... idk )

    play with corners and try to bait them into you guys 3v4 aka without their zon

    if they camp, play corners, then get your nec to spam them out

    annnnnnnd druids can hug corners and box which is incredibly annoying/effective so...
     
  12. Moritz

    Moritz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    mhm mike you should have asked me before doing this, it actually was meant to be a rather private discussion (or let's say "not completely public") which could have been continued rather via personal profile blogs than this if it disturbed the OT thread, but never mind. :)


    on topic: alright i understand what you mean as far as the tactical stuff goes, although splitting the zon from the team is out of question. the opponent team just will not let this happen.

    as far as gear for 102fcr is concerned ... i dont know. apart from the DS i would lose ravenfrost, so overall my melee attacks would become weaker. maybe gore riders could help to get back some damage, however i personally like dancers for it has 30fhr 2 skills and 25dex (=AR) more than gores.
    apart from that, it pretty much means no real loss. you basically "buy" the 102fcr cap for AR/damage .. we were planning to play the 65fcr sin with 3 shadowskillers because SCs could cover any possible resistance problems and boost your life, ar and physical damage. i think if you can cover the AR problem, 102fcr ghost could be pretty viable. also, using a fools claw will rather lead to higher physical damage output than vice versa. you would lose OW and gain physical damage. i dont think that i would be using a worse fools than eth with 2xx ed. it would be awesome if we didnt have to socket a zod rune so there would be space for another LO rune. i just dont know how much actual damage highlord's would cost but i think it can work.
    gonna have to test.

    i also would like to hear your opinion about the barb build in my team. im mainly thinking weapon/shield and switch wise.
     
  13. TienJe

    TienJe IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
  14. stuslegend

    stuslegend IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2006
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    57
    Re: Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    "bow/barb/hammerdin/boner"

    ill vouch this combo, my guild on east uses this and is one of the best all around team we've tried
     
  15. Xombie

    Xombie IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2003
    Messages:
    517
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    sad @ most defensive/boring/camp team that can be beat by 1 nec 1v4 ever

    LOL



     
  16. TienJe

    TienJe IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,564
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Re: Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    lmao yea thats true huh



     
  17. Rabbitz

    Rabbitz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2005
    Messages:
    3,577
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    255
    Re: Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    I SWEAR, YOU"RE MAKING MY EYES BLEED.

    Mikey, if we ask really really nice, could you space out his wall of text attacks =(

    @ Moritz: I'd help ya mate but as you know I'm a pure 1v1 person! Unless I can stealzor Ekorrens Amazon :crazyeyes:
     
  18. Moritz

    Moritz IncGamers Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2005
    Messages:
    1,621
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Ghost Assassin discussion thread ^______^

    KLMAO definitly not by this ibs kid :coffee:



     

Share This Page