German school spree killer kills 15

Garbad_the_Weak

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: German school spree killer kills 15

Sorry, but getting teased isn't justification for murder. Teenagers are prone to a lack of perspective and emoness. Its the hormones of the age, combined with an unstable mind.
 

BobCox2

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: German school spree killer kills 15

All of us are news whores. Sorry if the term offends.

Anyone who opens a newspaper (other than their local paper) to see what's happened in the world the previous day is a news whore.
Nope you a John - the Whores sell it.


 

WildBerry

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: German school spree killer kills 15

The usual counter-example is Finland where a lot of people have arms (mainly hunting rifles AFAIK), but they still don't shoot each other as happily as US citizens.
Hunting rifles yes, but do notice that shotguns (for most bird species - rifle is pretty useless in a forest made up of 200-year spruces as you're probably close-ish to your target if you can see it) are prevalent also and that many a Finn is an avid gun collector, so pistols and, say, assault rifles with dismantled burst switches, are somewhat common household items.

The reason for us not shooting each other is that we're used to stabbing each other while drunk or kill ourselves (one of these years we were more suicidal than the Japanese famous of their karoshis, I wonder if we still top them). Oh, and we drink ourselves to death too, so we can't shoot straight at those times either.

To each their own.

I'm sure no innocents died that day.
The eye witnesses all agreed he seemed not to be choosing his victims, so obviously you would be referring to original sin or something, because there seems to be no direct connection between the dead and the teasings.

Does anyone believe that before the modern communication, tragedies such as these didn't occur?
You mean like if a school massacre happens in a wood, and there's no-one there to hear the gunshots, do they make a sound?

I don't think killings are not enough tied to media to make them disappear. Your point is not without a merit, though, all the cases I know are media-smooching attention whores who want to be glorified in death.

The point is not at all about intent. It about kids dying.
While I still think it was apples and oranges (the other was someone else acting on kids' lives, the other one the kids endangering themselves), I became interested. If your point wasn't "there are more dangerous stuff around, there should be no arms restrictions for the sake of them being a low priority" - which I falsely assumed it to be - what, then, is the point you're trying to make? I'm not saying you don't have a point, I'm trying to communicate that I missed it to my own misconception and would like to understand your argument better.

Those who are responsible for the safety of our children should have the tools necessary to protect them.
I agree. I also think a firearm is by no means a relevant tool outside law enforcement agencies, but our worlds and frames of reference are markedly different, so I had better just leave it there.



 
Last edited:

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: German school spree killer kills 15

Does anyone believe that before the modern communication, tragedies such as these didn't occur? Or is it possible they did occur (at a similar rate as today) but news could only travel so fast, and be relevant only so many miles from the source.

Why should someone in California care if someone in New York went on a killing spree? Or someone in another country for that matter?

I don't believe people have changed so much in the last thousand years. The only thing that's changed are what weapons look like, how fast news travel, and the number of news-whores.
Can you name a killing rampage prior to, say, 1900?

People may not have changed in the last thousand years but weapons sure have. Or else I challenge you to a duel, you get a Guisarme and I get Metal Storm.

I think its kind of silly that the focus is on if his dad stored the guns properly. I am reasonably confident a psycho kid who wants to kill someone will just break the lock or steal daddy's keys.
Don't know about Germany but over here "proper storage" means in a combination safe bolted to the floor. Unloaded; the ammo is stored separately.

It's supposed to keep out intruders, not just kids.

The point is not at all about intent. It about kids dying.

If it were about intent we could, for example, do away with car seats or bicycle helmets. Then parents could just say "I didn't intend for my child to be hurt or killed."

But we don't. We (as a society) determined that too many children were killed or injured in auto or bike accidents. Safety measures were implemented as a way to mitigate the hazards.
Well don't they already make them wear helmets in football? How many kids die in car accidents every year? Your "twice" figure is 45 vs. 22, and that's in an unspecified "recent three year period", as stated in a pro-gun website (your source).

I checked out the references given by gunowners (well not directly because the links are broken, had to google them) and according to their source in 1999 there were 18 deaths at football but 12 were from heart failure. Where they got their "45 over three years" figure remains a mystery. Same year as Columbine, in that alone 12 students were killed (and of course there's Virginia Tech, which was about 27, wonder how many kids died from a football to the head in 2007?). (gunowners' source on the 45 over 3)

The second figure, which referenced this, counts only what it calls "school-associated violent deaths", which is a completely uncomparable statistic. But if you're interested, "Violent deaths at schools accounted for less than one percent of the homicides and suicides among children ages 5-18" (sourced from the CDC). And again, how they got 22 is an interesting question.

When you say "oddly because gun ownership is far higher in the US", that indicates that you think that the higher the amount of gun ownership there is, the higher the rate of gun violence. Of course that is silly.
Well, if you can play the "post figures from biased websites" game then so can I:

http://www.gun-control-network.org/International.gif



 

WildBerry

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: German school spree killer kills 15

Wait, wait! I think I know this one! Intentional Firearm death =/= murder, because it would include shooting a criminal robbing you! So its like mixing the good with the bad, and trying to call it all bad!

Gib cookie plox
Well to be fair, he was comparing it with football deaths. Those aren't exactly murders, either. And I'm pretty sure none of those 2003 Finnish "intentional firearm deaths" was the sort of you described - I'm pretty sure I caught every one of them in the papers that year.



 

lAmebAdger

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: German school spree killer kills 15

update:

i've now heard that the message he supposedly wrote in the chat was a fake... some kind of a bad prank by someone else or something... the spree killer did not chat about his intentions himself
 

Dondrei

Diabloii.Net Member
Re: German school spree killer kills 15

Wait, wait! I think I know this one! Intentional Firearm death =/= murder, because it would include shooting a criminal robbing you! So its like mixing the good with the bad, and trying to call it all bad!

Gib cookie plox
Good boy! You can get a choc chip one if you can spot the same definition in the gunowners.org sources!

Uh, and you did this did you? Because in that entire list there are exactly two prior to 1900, both in the late 1800s. Could you have named either of them? Well, just one really, since the other is "unknown sailor". I read the article's citations but was unable to find any other information on these two events. Given the context of each it's somewhat suspect.

P.S. I love this line: "Simon Cooper, a negro, murdered five persons at Lynchburg this morning".



 
Top