German school spree killer kills 15

[lAmebAdger]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

just got these new details from a live news conference:

-the killer fired around 200 shots
-he kind of had a few depressions with psychiatric help before that... was kind of a loner, had a girlfriend once, nothing too serious
-he got gun practice from his dad, which he often accompanied to some "hand gun and rifle club"... practiced at the shooting range there
-on his computer he had a bit of porno and violent video games (nothing unusual for a 17 year old)
-the town he was in was actually a quiet non-violent somewhat pleasant community. they described him as quiet, a bit isolated, but friendly before the killing spree
-he posted something like this in an internet chat forum (note: just words i remember):

****. I'm fed up with this bloody life. No one realizes my potential. I have a weapon right here. Tomorrow I'm gonna go there and give them hell. Maybe I'll escape, I'll check back if I do. Don't tell anything to the police.

the reply coming from someone in America was: LOL, I'm splitting my sides with laughter (and then something about wanting to see pictures from the rampage as proof... generally didn't take the killer too seriously)

 

[whitey]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

damn, wildberry beat me to what I was going to say. It's kind of ridiculous to compare the number of kids murdered in school to those who die in a football game. There is a known risk of injury when you play football and everyone knows it when they play. I don't think too many people consider the risk of a school shooting spree when they go to highschool. So your really not comparing apples to apples. Now if you compared school killings to work killings or something like that then that would be a fair comparison.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

Does anyone believe that before the modern communication, tragedies such as these didn't occur? Or is it possible they did occur (at a similar rate as today) but news could only travel so fast, and be relevant only so many miles from the source.

Why should someone in California care if someone in New York went on a killing spree? Or someone in another country for that matter?

I don't believe people have changed so much in the last thousand years. The only thing that's changed are what weapons look like, how fast news travel, and the number of news-whores.

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

who are you pointing at, when you say "news-whores"? hopefully not me

i was just citing supposed facts they found out while doing further police investigation in germany...

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

I think its kind of silly that the focus is on if his dad stored the guns properly. I am reasonably confident a psycho kid who wants to kill someone will just break the lock or steal daddy's keys.

 

[Amra]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

How many of those 45 deaths were murders with intention, just wondering?

The point is not at all about intent. It about kids dying.

If it were about intent we could, for example, do away with car seats or bicycle helmets. Then parents could just say "I didn't intend for my child to be hurt or killed."

But we don't. We (as a society) determined that too many children were killed or injured in auto or bike accidents. Safety measures were implemented as a way to mitigate the hazards.

The point of my link mentioning footballs deaths (among other things if you read the whole) suggests, at least to me, that society (determined by its laws on federal, state, and local levels) is willing to accept the risk of kids playing football. Few are calling for football to be banned within 300 feet of school zones. Yet guns, because they grab headlines, get more attention.

To be sure, deaths in large numbers get more press. We seem more forgiving if deaths are spread out over time. 12 people killed in 5 minutes is a headline. 12 people, killed the exact same way, over 12 months would not likely make national or worldwide news (or a thread in the OTF).

For the record, I am not here stating that football should be banned. But if 12 kids died in a single football game you can be sure suddenly lawmakers would be passing legislation. Remember jarts? Nor am I saying guns should be passed out like candy. Just like football gear needs to be worn properly, people with guns need to have proper training.

If that nice clean cut kid (or whoever) goes nuts and wants to take others out, they will find a way. Whether they do a Timothy McVeigh or kill using pencils, they will do what they can to inflict harm.

Those who are responsible for the safety of our children should have the tools necessary to protect them.

 

[Tanooki]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

All of us are news whores. Sorry if the term offends.

Anyone who opens a newspaper (other than their local paper) to see what's happened in the world the previous day is a news whore.

 

[Dirty_Zulu]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

i say: if you're gonna have any anti-gun laws, make them so that crazy people can't legally get a gun-license! (and when he like.. gets that many guns into his home when he gets it, why would any rational person give him a gun-license?)

Any how do you determine who's crazy? The background check can't just walk into a doctor's office and get the gun applicant's medical records.

 

[lAmebAdger]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

you hit the problem on the head, now find a way to solve it

 

[trashX]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

i see what you mean about my use of "oddly" though it was supposed to be a condescending? kind of word, to make those that think gun ownership and school shootings are strongly related think about it

 

[Amra]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

You can't legislate away the crazies. If you could, politicians everywhere would be out of a job. :hammerhead:

 

[Galabab]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

I think you people and the poeple in general TATALLY MISS the essence of the problem.
YOu think if you forbid the guns more strictly then anybody is safe?

This is stupid. Every 16 year old can make a bomb with 1 weak worth of dedication.
The man is a smart animal and if he WANTS to kill, he will.
I tell you even I could kill 10 people with a knife alone with proper planning and preparation.

Especially in the case of those killing sprees normal ways of the society to deal with crime prevention by threat of punishment become useless becoase the killer is ready to die.

An important correction of the killers chat:
"I cannot stand it anymore. They just keep laughing at me. They dont realize my potential..."

As long as there is mobbing and bullying of kids there will be kids who cant live with it and chose to pay the world a little of their pain back.

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

Exactly. We need to stamp out the problem at its root -- the fact that middle class teenagers can't deal with adversity for ****.

 

[krischan]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

This is not the first time. 37 people were injured in 2006, and 17 were killed in 2002. Oddly, the incidence of school spree killings in germany appears higher than in the US. This despite the fact that germany has very strict antigun laws.

According to here (the table is at the bottom, in German, but its essence should be comprehensible by non-German readers), the US had at about 3-4 times as many killing sprees as Germany which is more or less the same in comparison to the total population, so we seem to be on par with respect to maniacs wearing a gun. If you want a gun badly enough, you can get one in any country.

To my knowledge, the number of gun murders per capita in the US is 9-10 times higher than in Germany (I'm not completely sure about that) and AFAIK New York alone has a higher total number than all of Germany, but I don't think that liberal gun laws alone are the reason for that. The usual counter-example is Finland where a lot of people have arms (mainly hunting rifles AFAIK), but they still don't shoot each other as happily as US citizens. Availability of arms is surely a factor, but there are probably a couple of others as well.

 

[Amra]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

i see what you mean about my use of "oddly" though it was supposed to be a condescending? kind of word, to make those that think gun ownership and school shootings are strongly related think about it

I am trying to wrap my head around what you wrote. :scratchhead:

It's not condescending.

If someone (like you and Garbad) use the word "oddly", then it follows that there is a baseline or situation which you consider to be normal (or not odd). Follow?

When you say "oddly because gun ownership is far higher in the US", that indicates that you think that the higher the amount of gun ownership there is, the higher the rate of gun violence. Of course that is silly. There are numerous factors to consider.

 

[Garbad_the_Weak]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

you think that the higher the amount of gun ownership there is, the higher the rate of gun violence. Of course that is silly.

Absurdly silly. Its like assuming camel trampling are linked to camel population.

 

[Amra]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

Absurdly silly. Its like assuming camel trampling are linked to camel population.

Now you are beginning to understand. :welcome: Soon you can move from a Youngling to a Padawan if you keep up your studies.

[btw, nice of you to put words in my mouth. I never said there is no link. I said there are

numerous factors to consider

. But fine with me if you want to live with blinders on.]

 

[Dirty_Zulu]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

Absurdly silly. Its like assuming camel trampling are linked to camel population.

No- that analogy holds true. Car accidents are related to the amount of cars. You're definitely going to have more camel related incidents if you got thousands of camels vs a dozen.

Guns are a different animal. A fix number of residents in a city can either have 10 guns or 100,000 guns, the gun related incidents should be about the same.

 

[krischan]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

The number of car accidents are a matter of:
- the number of cars
- the quality of the cars (they have to pass a technical inspection here every 2 years and the prejudice about Germans being so awfully thoroughgoing comes true here)
- the degree of organization (traffic regulations, traffic control, quality of streets)
- the general driving style of the people
etc.

So as with weapons, it depends on several factors.

Maybe a couple of people believe that traffic functions well in e.g. Rome, but when I was there, I saw more traffic accidents in a week than I saw in a whole year in Germany. However, the accidents were just about dented bumpers and the like.

 

[Don Zardeone]

Re: German school spree killer kills 15

There's problems and symptoms.
Kid killing a bunch of people is a symptom or the result of a problem.

Everyone pushing the guy over and over and over again until he snaps. That's the problem.

I'm sure no innocents died that day.