Full Nat's - Purpose?

lextalionis

Diabloii.Net Member
Crazy Person said:
its really not 'good' for any build.

but the best build to use it on would be a WW sin or a kicker.
Nat's is still not the best item even with the new mods and sockets. Sorceresses can do better with a la carte equipment too.

I think Necro's, and maybe Barbs are the only characters that really get a with bonuses that I'd really want to use.

Three useful sets are Trang's, Tal Rasha's, Immortal King. They are so good that even the non-class characters will wear them for certain builds
 

Mech-Sheep Arsenal

Diabloii.Net Member
Not true. Griswold's set is still the best to me.

However, I'm considering to use Nat's for a DTail//Tiger Striker. The boots are a little disappointing, but hell, DTail and Tiger Strike will cover that lack of damage :xmad:
 

Naliworld

Diabloii.Net Member
Crazy Person said:
its really not 'good' for any build.

but the best build to use it on would be a WW sin or a kicker.
IMO, the Odium is least suited toward Kickers, if only for the poor boots. If I had to build a build(no pun) around the Odium, it'd have to be a pure PS build(max CoT/FoF/PS, maybe Venom/CM).

Mech-Sheep-Arsenal(in response to lastest post): I doubt it. To illustrate:

An Assassin with 200 STR, 98 DEX, slvl 30 TS(charge three currently active) and slvl 30 DTail, using Myrmidon Greaves.

Minimum Damage=(200+98-20)/4)*(100+2040)/100 +
83*(100+200*120/100+2040)/100
Maximum Damage=(200+98-20)/3)*(100+2040)/100 +
149*(100+200*120/100+2040)/100

Minimum Damage=2337
Maximum Damage=4029
Average Damage=3486

Minimum Fire Damage=2337 * (100+340)/100 = 10282
Maximum Fire Damage=4029 * (100+340)/100 = 17727
Avg. Fire Damage=14004

---

An Assassin with 200 STR, 98 DEX, slvl 30 TS(charge three currently active) and slvl 30 DTail, using Mesh Boots(Natalya's Soul).

Minimum Damage=(200+98-20)/4)*(100+2040)/100 +
23*(100+200*120/100+2040)/100
Maximum Damage=(200+98-20)/3)*(100+2040)/100 +
52*(100+200*120/100+2040)/100

Maximum Damage=909
Maximum Damage=1237
Average Damage=1073

Minimum Fire Damage=909 * (100+340)/100 = 3999
Maximum Fire Damage=1237 * (100+340)/100 = 5442
Average Fire Damage=4720

---

AoE Damage Difference=14004-4720=9284 (196% more AoE damage with Myrmidon Greaves)
Physical Damage Difference=3486-1073=2413 (224% more Physical damage with Myrmidon Greaves)
Total Damage Difference=9284 + 2413=11697(201% more Total damage with Mrymidon Greaves)

---

I've probably made a mistake here and there, but the fact is that TS/DTail cannot fully make up for boot damage.
 

Duncan Idaho

Diabloii.Net Member
Nope ... Nat's set is really one of the best char set. Better than Tal Rasha (lack of skills compared to a 'classic skills gear'), TO, M'avina, and Aldur. The only one that can be compared is of course the IK set.

Nat's set brings 30%DR, 14% ll and ml, up to 4 sockets plus the socket in the weapon, good dmg (Nat claw is not that bad, well socketed it can reach great amount of dmg), res and skils.

One must notice the +5 shadows skills brought by the set. Consequently, a build based on Nat set should surely use shadow skills.

Of course do not do a kicker.

I submitted that build some months ago, which was quite well recieved :

You can use
Max DC
Max Venom
Max SM
Max CM
1 pt in BF
rest in WB

Of course, if you're playing solo you'll have pb against PIs/PsnI such as ghosts ie. One could use then that build, which works well

Max DC
Max Venom
15 CM
enough to reach 17 with +skills items in SM (that means, with full Nat set and a Bartuc, 10 pts)
some in WB (enough to reach slvl 9-10 with bonuses, that means a 2-3 skill points investment)
rest in FoF (the liberation transforms 3%*FoF slvl of the phys dmg into fire dmg).

Tested out, it works damn well, even in players8 mode.
 

lextalionis

Diabloii.Net Member
Duncan Idaho said:
Nope ... Nat's set is really one of the best char set. Better than Tal Rasha (lack of skills compared to a 'classic skills gear'), TO, M'avina, and Aldur. The only one that can be compared is of course the IK set.

Nat's set brings 30%DR, 14% ll and ml, up to 4 sockets plus the socket in the weapon, good dmg (Nat claw is not that bad, well socketed it can reach great amount of dmg), res and skils.

One must notice the +5 shadows skills brought by the set. Consequently, a build based on Nat set should surely use shadow skills.

Of course do not do a kicker.

You can use
Max DC
Max Venom
Max SM
Max CM
1 pt in BF
rest in WB or FoF

FoF (the liberation transforms 3%*FoF slvl of the phys dmg into fire dmg).
.
The set has gotten much better, I'll give you that, and this is the best build I think you could possibly use. Maybe get the chaos claw for WW. But you can still get better damage claws. Kickers, a big part of being an assassin are not possible with this equipment(which is really a shame the SET MYRMRIDON BOOTS don't belong in Natalia's). And let me assure you that trappers are still very +skill dependant, even with the synergies.

Duncan while this build may be fun to play, solo and I think with enough points put into FoF, it can be played solo. I might even max that first. But this will not be a quick or efficient or uber build.
 

Duncan Idaho

Diabloii.Net Member
lextalionis said:
The set has gotten much better, I'll give you that, and this is the best build I think you could possibly use. Maybe get the chaos claw for WW. But you can still get better damage claws. Kickers, a big part of being an assassin are not possible with this equipment(which is really a shame the SET MYRMRIDON BOOTS don't belong in Natalia's). And let me assure you that trappers are still very +skill dependant, even with the synergies.

Duncan while this build may be fun to play, solo and I think with enough points put into FoF, it can be played solo. I might even max that first. But this will not be a quick or efficient or uber build.
Thx for the reply. Well that's the build i'm using with my players8 solo sin, and i've got to say that she is doing much better than my blizz/FW or CL/FO sorceress, or any other of my solo character. (wearing a Bartuc, Highlord's Wrath, String, 2 crafted rings and Dracul's Grasp)

Agree with the myrmidon boots ... that's a shame
 

lextalionis

Diabloii.Net Member
Duncan, don't get me wrong, I think its a strong solo build because it has three sources of damage, Physical, Poison, and Fire. It also has strong resists, blocking, and life. So I'm not knocking it. Not at all. It just won't be a speed freak at killing like a Blizz Sorceress for non-cold immunes.
 

Mech-Sheep Arsenal

Diabloii.Net Member
I think I'll stick with a PS Sin.

Why?

1) I have never experienced one, even when I first started playing LoD.

2) 2 Elementals are always a good sign.

3) I like playing around with elemental skills (that's why I lack Barbarians)

I'm pretty sure the PS is going to be very good :xsmile3:
 

Corr

Diabloii.Net Member
Duncan that build seems really interesting to me. I have nats set and i've always been trying to use it to it's fullest potential. It's apparantly geared towards the MA assasin but i just never really found a good skill to use for it. Dont know why i havent thought of maxing dragonclaw and use that as the primary attack, especially since ive always favored c/c over c/s.

Gona scrounge up some melee gear and give this build a shot :)
 
sorry, the kicker thing is based on pvp. where the dmg of the kicks doesnt matter, its just to set off OW/CB etc. as fast as you can. it really isnt the best choice for this build (or any build) but it could be used.

the best set is (and always has been) trangs. nats is not a good set.
 

Duncan Idaho

Diabloii.Net Member
Duncan Idaho said:
Nope ... Nat's set is really one of the best char set. Better than Tal Rasha (lack of skills compared to a 'classic skills gear'), TO, M'avina, and Aldur. The only one that can be compared is of course the IK set.

Nat's set brings 30%DR, 14% ll and ml, up to 4 sockets plus the socket in the weapon, good dmg (Nat claw is not that bad, well socketed it can reach great amount of dmg), res and skils.

One must notice the +5 shadows skills brought by the set. Consequently, a build based on Nat set should surely use shadow skills.

Of course do not do a kicker.

I submitted that build some months ago, which was quite well recieved :

You can use
Max DC
Max Venom
Max SM
Max CM
1 pt in BF
rest in WB

Of course, if you're playing solo you'll have pb against PIs/PsnI such as ghosts ie. One could use then that build, which works well

Max DC
Max Venom
15 CM
enough to reach 17 with +skills items in SM (that means, with full Nat set and a Bartuc, 10 pts)
some in WB (enough to reach slvl 9-10 with bonuses, that means a 2-3 skill points investment)
rest in FoF (the liberation transforms 3%*FoF slvl of the phys dmg into fire dmg).

Tested out, it works damn well, even in players8 mode.
Of course, I've forgot to mention that so much helping 1-pt skills that are CoS and MB !
Careful if you play with Dracul's Grasp, CoS and Life Tap override each other. One technique is to curse first with CoS (high radius of effect), and once Life Tap has been triggered, use MB.

Yeah Dragon Claw is great for attacking. Too bad it's not uninterruptible anymore, but well ... one can't have everything :)

Well... I don't know what you need then Crazy Person. Nat's set is the only offenser set with that amount of ll, just like any other character-designed set it brings to your character skills and res, and you've got up to 3 sockets on the armor and a fourth on the helm (which is really great, as you can have up to +160%ED / +60 max dmg!!!). Not forgetting the poison duration -75% (which is quite cool in the 1.10), extra res from helm (up to 20 all res), boots and armor (up to 25 to all except fire), and that awesome +30%RD. With String, you reach 45% RD, without having to stick to Vamp Gaze or Shaft. The only thing it lacks is IMO a pair of natural sockets or some ll on the weap (but don't forget that Nat Claw still has 200% ED against demons AND undead)
 
Duncan Idaho said:
Well... I don't know what you need then Crazy Person. Nat's set is the only offenser set with that amount of ll, just like any other character-designed set it brings to your character skills and res, and you've got up to 3 sockets on the armor and a fourth on the helm (which is really great, as you can have up to +160%ED / +60 max dmg!!!). Not forgetting the poison duration -75% (which is quite cool in the 1.10), extra res from helm (up to 20 all res), boots and armor (up to 25 to all except fire), and that awesome +30%RD. With String, you reach 45% RD, without having to stick to Vamp Gaze or Shaft. The only thing it lacks is IMO a pair of natural sockets or some ll on the weap (but don't forget that Nat Claw still has 200% ED against demons AND undead)
LL is not so great now
and ed/max jewels dont work in armor/helm anymore.
the claw has low dmg compared to, say, a chaos claw.
its not like its a terrible set, and it is viable. its just not the best and you have a lot of better options.
 

lextalionis

Diabloii.Net Member
Crazy Person said:
LL is not so great now
and ed/max jewels dont work in armor/helm anymore.
the claw has low dmg compared to, say, a chaos claw.
its not like its a terrible set, and it is viable. its just not the best and you have a lot of better options.

Which is what everyone has basically been saying. Its not that Nat's set is bad. Its that you can do better. If you have better, do better. For as rare as Nat's whole set is, I'd be surprised if you didn't have better if you have the whole set. Which by itself is funny, since you'd think since the uber complete sets are so very hard to complete that you'd get the absolute best mods in the game from them, but its not the case.

I don't think we should delude ourselves into thinking the mods on these items are btter than they actually are, nor worse, but be honest. We have to stretch to make Nat's set work, because Blizz didn't design it to be the uberist of uber. For what ever reason, since getting it is the rarest of rare.
 
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