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FRW for the WW Barb - does it really give that much of a penalty?

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Jaimes, Mar 24, 2005.

  1. Jaimes

    Jaimes IncGamers Member

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    FRW for the WW Barb - does it really give that much of a penalty?

    When I play games, I like to be fast. Let me emphasize this.. I *love* to be fast. I have the opportunity to twink my barbarian a decent amount, since he is the character I am focused on right now. I would enjoy getting a few FRW charms and even spending 2 points to get Increased Speed.

    I've heard though from various sources that the FRW mod causes you to get less hits in while WWing.. or something? Exactly what does FRW do, and is it that vital to your PvM performance? I'm hoping to create a barbarian to use in ALL PvM aspects of the game; helping people out, MFing in any part of the game, rushing, questing... Which means I will want some decent MF on me and thereby meaning that any combat effectiveness boost I can get without an expense to my skills or MF is a plus. Will FRW affect my killing ability that much?

    Edit: If I spend points in Increased Speed, +skills from items will probably take this to ~6, meaning a 30% increase in speed. That means I can acheive 60% with goreriders, and with a few FRW charms I will be running as fast as a pally with Vigor. Sounds fun, but at what cost?
     
  2. Taz

    Taz IncGamers Member

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    Frw does not decrease your hits/ww. Not directly. It is said so becuse they assume ww-ing through a imobile target where frw results in less time u have the target in striking distance therefore potential less hits.
    If the target is in striking distance for a given period (ex: DOD) the number of hits will not depend on frw but solely on the time u DOD (assuming hitting last bp).

    Back in 1.09 frw was vital for a barb if it was to have any chance vs an amazon. U simply had no chance if u couldn`t outrun the zon. Inc speed gaved barbs the edge on this. Frw from it was taken differently into account than frw from other sources when calculating the final increase in frw in the sence that it had a greater impact.

    In 1.10 with the arrival of enigma this was no longer an issue but, as i see it lately enigama tele has its limitations (low mana pool, need for fcr which makes u give up on other important equipement pieces).
    Acordingly frw and how it works was a lesser issue and no testing has been done on it lately.
    The issues i`d like to know are:
    - what effectiveness has frw from Inc Speed?
    - how far and how effective is to pump frw - does it have dimminishing effect?
     
  3. Jaimes

    Jaimes IncGamers Member

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    I guess a few other things to consider would not only be how long the target is in reach for multiple hits, but also whirling around a pack or making triangles... that would be a lot more difficult with more FRW.

    FRW does have diminishing effect. It works very similar to the Natural Resistance skill. One point in it and after +skills you get most of the relevant bonus. When the skill is past 15 or so more points barely increases the bonus.

    The bonus from 1 -> 5 is 15 FRW to 28 FRW, nearly double
    5 -> 15 is 28 FRW to 40 FRW. As you can see, double the points for nearly the same amount of gain.

    Not sure about the diminishing speed returns with more FRW, though I would assume it is so.

    I think I am gonna scratch the idea then, just because it will making WWing so much harder.
     
  4. Taz

    Taz IncGamers Member

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  5. Emerald Dragon

    Emerald Dragon IncGamers Member

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    I've read a very good guide on how to make a awesome ww barb, and the author said that does affect your whirlwind. He recommended No points into the run walk mastery, OR wearing any boots with run/walk on them. He even said to wear medium/heavy armors to make you move as slow as possible.

    Here is the Guide, he explains it a lot better than I can.

    http://www.unc.edu/~jpurvis/whirl/

    Now about running fast. I was bored and wanted to try something different, so I decided to make the fastest character possible. I made a Barb with 20 into run/walk (I know after level 15 you get like 2 more run/walk at level 20, but it was the main skill of the build).

    He has Trang armor (40%), Cats eye (30%), Mavina Belt (20%), Ik Boots (40%), and Last but not least, a Harmony bow.

    With that gear and 20 into run/walk mastery, thats 173% faster Run/Walk. And the bow gives a lvl 10 Vigor aura.

    And I havent even gotten my full potential either. I could get 30% R/W on a rare circlet, with +3 to masteries. Then there are the Faster Run/Walk charms. I got a bunch of them and they add like 35% altogether i think.

    You must be thinking I'm insane, and maybe I am. Here are some cool facts.

    -With this setup, I run a little faster than arrows. That's right. When I shoot an arrow from my bow and instantly run after it, I can almost overtake it before it dissapears. This amuses my friends to no end watching me chase my own arrows.

    -Taking one look at the gear, you probably know this barb cant kill anything. But he isnt meant to fight. Still, you could have fun helping people in normal. The bow damage is not that bad.

    -He can double as a sniffer. You follow a buddy on a mf run, and zip around the battlefield horking like a mofo after he has killed everything.

    -Contrary to the above, I DO join duel games and have immense fun. I dont expect to kill anyone, but with my presence in a duel game, It adds a sense of humor and fun. First off people are blown away when they see how fast I am. Everyone is used to seeing the same old things : Wind Druids, hammerdins, chargers, bowzons, ww barbs, trapsins, single tree sorcs, bone or poison necro's. It's a big suprise when a bow wielding barb shows up and is fast as the wind. Everyone automatically wants to try and get that "Speedy Barb". Bowazons will be dumbfounded when their guided arrows dont do anything to me. Since I run a little bit faster than arrows, they wont touch me unless i run into something, and it looks like its just floating behind me when I run in a straight line. Chargers have to charge to even keep up with me, and If they screw up/run into something, I'm long gone. I have developed the habit of running figure 8's around people. It's funny when they realize they are not gonna catch me the old fashioned way, and try to cut me off, where I simply run a differant way. Necro's bone prison me, but I just leap attack out. Decrep is Fleet_Foot's personal Hell. :lol:

    Of course there are always those that have no sense of humor and only understand the word "Noob" when they win and "Lag" when they dont. I've been called a noob or that I suck because they killed me with one shot, but I dont care what Mr.Grief exile, cta on switch, botd, 3 enigma in stash plus last wish thinks about me.

    All in all, I have a blast using Fleet_Foot (Fitting isn't it?) too show people that "Hey, non-cookie cutter builds can be fun too*.

    So what do you think? Am I crazy or what? Hehehe.
     
  6. Taz

    Taz IncGamers Member

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    I never heared of that, i was under the impresion no char can run faster than arrows. I spent a lot of time outmanuvering guided arows - they are slow at corners - but never managed to outrun them in a straight line.
    PS: yes, i`ve read the guide only i had pvp in mind while Jaimes refers to pvm.
     
  7. Emerald Dragon

    Emerald Dragon IncGamers Member

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    There should be a guide for max run/walk barbs just for fun. The Bullet Barb. Hehe. It would at least raise awarness that these guys exist.
     
  8. RetroStar

    RetroStar IncGamers Member

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    I made one of these before but for an assasin. My computer lagged itself out from the running. I had 40 FRW scs though.
     
  9. combatman

    combatman IncGamers Member

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    Hehe, funny, i wish i have time to make one,
     
  10. Taz

    Taz IncGamers Member

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    Here`s how frw works to my best knowledge:

    FRWI - frw from items/charmory
    EFRWI - effective frw from items/charmory
    FRWS - frw from Increased Speed
    TFRW - total increase of frw

    FRWI = the sum of %frw from all items and charms
    EFRWI = (120*FRWI)/(120+FRWI)
    FRWS = %frw from Increased speed
    TFRW = EFRWI + FRWS

    Ex:


    Code:
    FRWI                    0   50   100   150   200   250   300
    EFRWI                   0   35    54    66    75    81    85
    TFRW (30 IncS)         30   65    84    96    105  111   116
    TFRW (40 IbcS)         40   75    94   106    115  121   126
    Stacking frw from items/charmory suffers from a samish diminishing effect like pumping Inc Speed.
    I presume frw from Vigor, Frenzy, Burst of speed works just like frw from Incresed Speed. Maybe that`s how a barb can catch its own arrows. So the combiation of Inc Speed and Frenzy makes the barb the fastest runner. :cool:
     
  11. rikstaker

    rikstaker IncGamers Member

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    I did emphasize that,the suggestion above was for PVM only.I believe I made it clear,speed is good for pvp,invest a single point in inc stamina/speed & have some frw from boots & light armors are preferable.The diference in Check Duration(length of time target is in range for hits) of a single target doesnt differ much with r/w speed,the benefit however is considerable in pvm,against packs.

    Rik
     

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