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Frozen Orber (paladin)

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by ReCo, Oct 18, 2006.

  1. ReCo

    ReCo IncGamers Member

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    Frozen Orber (paladin)

    Paladin firing Frozen Orb almost every second

    Rift made in scepter gives:
    20% Chance To Cast Level 16 Tornado On Striking
    16% Chance To Cast Level 21 Frozen Orb On Attack
    20% Bonus To Attack Rating
    Adds 160-250 Magic Damage
    Adds 60-180 Fire Damage
    +5-10 To All Stats (varies)
    +10 To Dexterity
    38% Damage Taken Goes To Mana
    75% Extra Gold From Monsters
    Level 15 Iron Maiden (40 Charges)
    Requirements -20%

    Voice of Reason gives:
    15% Chance To Cast Level 13 Frozen Orb On Striking
    18% Chance To Cast Level 20 Ice Blast On Striking
    +50 To Attack Rating
    +220-350% Damage To Demons
    +355-375% Damage To Undead (varies)
    +50 To Attack Rating Against Undead
    Adds 100-220 Cold Damage
    -24% To Enemy Cold Resistance
    +10 To Dexterity
    Cannot Be Frozen
    75% Extra Gold From Monsters
    +1 To Light Radius


    the build:
    max (up to 25) conviction
    some points in zeal
    holy shield


    what do you think about the idea? i think it would be very funny to fire frozen orb every second

    unfortunately i dont have even ko lem to create voice of reason so i can not test this pala (i havent play for ages and all my chars are gone, i have very poor pala at the moment)
     
  2. levitikus

    levitikus IncGamers Member

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    too weak. A simple auradin could just walk around and do more damage. You could make him a nightmare cow runner though... still auradin better.. Kudos for trying to be original though. Who knows give it a try..
     
  3. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    A suggestion: try a build out before you call it "too weak".

    This type of Paladin is called a "Conviction Zealot", and it's very powerful. Standard Conviction Zealot weapons are either "Rift" (as the OP mentioned), or Gimmershreds. Conviction Zealots can tear through enemies just as fast as Avengers, but they require far less mana and far fewer skill points. As for Auradins... Conviction Zealots have two huge advantages over Auradins.

    1: Conviction Zealots require 30 skill points to make, tops (1 in sacrifice, 4 in Zeal, 1 in Might/HolyFire/HolyFreeze/Thorns/Sanctuary, 20 in Conviction). With +skills, you could actually make one with even less than that. That leaves you with TONS of skill points leftover to boost your max resists, crank up and synergize Holy Shield, develop a second attack, boost Holy Bolt, or even develop a secondary aura for party play.
    2 (and this is a big one): Conviction Zealots are not responsible for the horrible laggy state of the realms. Auradins require a ton of duped runes to make. If you trade for duped runes, you are encouraging duping. If you encourage duping, you are directly responsible for the creation of lag on the realms. If all of those Auradins became Conviction Zealots instead, we would have half as much lag.

    The best part about Conviction Zealots, IMO, is how cheap they are- almost any paladin class can take a minor in Conviction Zealing (remember, it takes AT MOST 30 skill points), which gives it a PHENOMINAL secondary attack that will kill extremely well in hell, that no enemy is immune to, and that doesn't even hurt when you're IMed (assuming you socket the Rift into a normal-quality scepter).
     
  4. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Absolutely!


    To the OP starter, this thread in the necro forum has a similar idea using Rift and Lower Resist. FO at slvl 21 is decent, and since the synergy is only 2% from IceBolt, not having it synergised wouldn't be a big loss.

    I have a dual Fanaticism-Conviction Zealot, and it works fantastically well against any monster (including OKs).
     
  5. Noite Escura

    Noite Escura IncGamers Member

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    Interesting. Do you know if the Orb fired from Rift can be enhanced by +% Cold damage like from Ormus? Also I assume the timer for Fo still works in CTC, so you can't cast more than one per second?
     
  6. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    My assumption is that it cannot. But I have no hard evidence either way.

    No assumption here on my part. I can confirm that, since it is a CtC skill, the timer-delay does not apply, and the wielder of Rift will be able to spam FO (limited to the 16% on attack) like a sorc is able to spam Fireballs.
     
  7. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    sounds funny, let us know if you finish it i want to see it in action
     
  8. Calizzar

    Calizzar IncGamers Member

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    I've always wanted to use rift.

    Make it in a caduceuous, have 45% IAS, and faith on merc and you hit 4fpa.

    Thats 6.2 attacks a second. Which will give you an average of 1 frozen orb per second.

    Considering an untwinked orb sorc can do pretty well in hell, this can too. Level 21 orb with maxed conviction should be a force to be reckoned with.

    My idea is be a Drift-a-din.

    20 res lit
    20 conv
    20 holy shield
    20 salvation

    Dual dream and rift. Between your 7k zeal damage at 4fpa, the orb shooting out, and pulse damage, it should slaughter.


    I'm wondering, since it says on attack, can you just get near a group of monsters and shift-click zeal, watching it go off without actually getting close to monsters?
     
  9. FrostBurn

    FrostBurn IncGamers Member

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    Nope, it has to be on an actual attack.
     
  10. pancakeman

    pancakeman IncGamers Member

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    Interesting idea. Maybe use Crow Caw with a 15% IAS jewel and Head Hunter's with 3 cold die facets?
     
  11. Calizzar

    Calizzar IncGamers Member

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    im pretty sure the facets dont help the orb.
     
  12. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Yes. It is also boosted by -% enemy cold resists, which can be handy for taking down enemies who have their cold immunity broken by Conviction (since even after the immunity is broken, they'll have 90+% cold resist). Although the fire and magic damage on Rift is already more than sufficient.

    Nope, no timer. There is an issue where if a timered spell triggers because of a CtC, there will be a very brief cool-down period where your skills turn red and you can't attack anymore (somewhere between 4 and 8 frames), but since Zeal is uninterruptable, you'll just continue attacking anyway and will very rarely even notice it. In other words, Zeal away. I've triggered as many as four in one zeal-cycle.

    Rift is wasted in a Caddy. When you consider that it doesn't have one single drop of ED on the entire thing, the only difference between a Rift in a Caddy and a Rift in a War Scepter is about 26 damage per swing. On the other hand, using a Caddy raises the strength requirements by 42, the Dex requirements by 70, and the level requirements by 13. Oh, and it's a ton more expensive to repair.

    The best thing to drop the Rift runeword into would be a +1-3 Zeal War Scepter with no other +skills. That'll keep the requirements low, the repair cost way down, and it'll save you a handful of skill points (if you can get to a slvl 4 Zeal without investing skill points, that's 5 points you just saved).

    They do.
     
  13. bogie

    bogie IncGamers Member

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    Nice, very nice. I saw a build that used rift on a merc in the necro forum. Why not throw a rift on your merc in this build as well, and give him some ias gear? That would double your chances of getting orbs out. Only thing you need is that the rift be put into a fast weapon.
     
  14. Calizzar

    Calizzar IncGamers Member

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    i'd say faith merc is better because it gets you to 4 frames.

    so, the +% cold damage helps the orb? how would you tell?
     
  15. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Because you kill faster with it on than you do with it off?

    +% Elemental Damage is an actual character attribute, much like Defense Rating, Attack Rating, etc. Any damage of that type that a character does will get boosted by that attribute (with two exceptions- see below). It's really not a mystical Sorc-specific deal here, it's just that Sorcs have the easiest access to it. Still, it will boost cold damage triggered by a Paladin as readily as it will boost cold damage triggered by a Sorc.

    The first exception is Minions. They aren't really an exception, I just felt like I should spell it out- Your minions and hirelings *WILL NOT* benefit from +% Skill Damage on you. Minions include the basics like Fire Golems and Skeleton Magi, but also some more surprising entries such as the Assassin's traps (except for Shock Web, Fire Blast, and the Blade Skills- those don't count as minions). Also, while Hydra counts as a minion, Blizzard has specifically made it the ONLY minion in the game that benefits from your +% Skill Damage because Sorcs were complaining about their fire mastery not boosting Hydras.

    The second exception is ranged attacks. Not spells, but actual ranged attacks, such as thrown weapons or bows/crossbows. Melee attacks work fine, but thrown attacks do not work with +% skill damage. The reason why is probably because otherwise Kuko-wielding Enchantresses would be uberpowered unstoppable beasts.

    Anyway, outside of those two specific instances (ranged attacks and minions), all damage of a certain element that you produce will be boosted by your +% Element Damage (commonly referred to as Elemental Mastery, not to be confused with -% Element Resists, which is known as Elemental Pierce).

    Speaking of Elemental Pierce... I know that it doesn't work with minions, but I don't know whether it works with ranged attacks or not.
     
  16. Ava

    Ava IncGamers Member

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    I wouldn't know for sure about FO, but when an assassin uses Phoenix Strike or Claws of Thunder or any elemental charge attack for that matter, the elemental spells on release are NOT boosted by +% Element Damage (the actual damage added to the attack is though; twice even). -% Elemental Resist does help though.

    Now since these assassin attacks are basically just a 100% CTC on striking when using a finishing move, I expect that FO will not benefit from +% Element Damage.
     
  17. Bladewind

    Bladewind IncGamers Member

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    Ok i cheated and tried the Driftadin on single player with an editor. It absolutely slaughters, even on Hell 8 player. Lister gives a problem but hey you are tanking him yourself and with your merc.

    The Forb frequently EXPLODE inside the target Rift's first hit and that deals alot of damage, coupled with dual Dream, Hell 8 player PvM is basically a walkthrough. Also Conviction, which actively breaks immunities is a ton more useful then Cold M. Only problem is life leech and mana since the non ed Caddy / War Scepter leeches back almost nothing.

    Plus i think it would be really funny to try this on Realms and then leave everyone dumbfounded. :D
     
  18. jsyou

    jsyou Banned

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    what realm are you on? too bad you cant use redemption since orb shatters everything. just use a prayer merc with insight for life/mana problems
     
  19. SSoG

    SSoG IncGamers Member

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    Yeah, I forgot about the Assa skills. They definitely don't benefit from +% Skill Damage (if I had to guess, I suspect they're flagged as ranged attacks for some reason). Still, saying that they're basically 100% CTC on striking effects is wholly incorrect. I mean, you could say that Poison Dagger is a 100% ctc Poison on striking, but that's still boostable by +% Poison Damage.

    Anyway, I test, and I mod, so I'm not coming out of left field or speaking speculatively here. I am absolutely, positively, 100% certain that a ctc Frozen Orb, such as from Voice of Reason or Rift, is boosted by +% Cold Damage. Regardless of how the Assassin skills work, CtCs are unequivocally, without question, with absolute CERTAINTY boosted by +% Skill Damage.

    If you want a very simple example that you can test out for yourself, equip a character with no weapon except for his bare hands, and then give him Treachery and Trang's gloves. Swing with Trang's Unequipped until the ctc Venom triggers, open the LCS and look at the damage. After that, equip the Trang's, then swing until the Venom procs again, and then take off the Trang's. Look at the LCS again, and your listed damage will have gone up 25%.

    Not that I'm advocating relying on the LCS as a means of testing, I was just giving you a simple test you could do to try to illustrate the point to you. I assure you I have done actual empirical testing on the matter, and have conclusively confirmed that both +% Cold Damage and -% Cold Resistance work with the Frozen Orbs from Rift in real-world circumstances.



     
  20. jakotaco

    jakotaco IncGamers Member

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    You cast many Frozen Orbs IRL? :prop:

    Hmm, maybe I should try switching my Dreamer's Crescent Moon for a Rift to see if I notice any difference in killing speed, the idea sounds cool anyway... Or nevermind I just noticed the Gul rune in it... and since my AR is low I think I'll stay in my happy zone of ITD for the moment...
     

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