Latest Diablo 3 News
Support the site! Become a Diablo: IncGamers PAL - Remove ads and more!

Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

Discussion in 'Paladin' started by Meskaline, Jun 23, 2010.

  1. Meskaline

    Meskaline Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    UsWest NonLadder

    Backdrop:

    Well I quit D2 along time ago. Close to.. two years now. Gave up WoW and finally decided to come back. Rerolled my first toon, Paladin of course. :thumbsup:

    Leveled Frost Zeal and wanna stay that way. Strictly PvM no PvP going on, the thing is I'm stuck. I've done a bit of MF with my couple pieces of gear which included: Fiend Clutches & Greaves, Ammy of Luck & Atma's Wail which is about +91 to MFing but haven't come across anything really.. great in the area's of hell in which I can comfortably kill in. (i'll get to this later)

    I've been sniping Baal / Chaos & Diablo / Meph hell kills like no other but still nothing worth wild has dropped that isn't trash and ends up sold for gold due to it being garbage tbh.

    I've attempted running in Hell Pits, doesn't work out to well. I can't really go to far into hell either without getting annihilated. Doesn't help my merc gets eaten alive too (prolly due to crap gear even @ lv 75) I mean i can SLOWLY move through hell, but I KNOW i'm not close to what I'm suppose to be doing.


    Skill Build @ 81:
    20+1 Zeal
    20+1 Holy Freeze
    20+1 Cold Resistance
    20+1 Salvation
    Sacrifice is sitting @ 3

    Stat Build @ 81 (remember first toon, no benefit items / no wealth)
    Str: 112
    Dex: 89+26 (115)
    Vit: 311

    ---------------------------------------

    Zeal Dmg: 1349-1604
    Holy Freeze Dmg: 216-221
    Zeal AR: 2786

    Defense: 1656 (33% Block - Yeah I know. Working on Holy Shield now)
    1408 Health
    288 Mana (I never have mana issues from leech)
    -75 Resistances across the grid

    ---------------------------------------

    Current Gear:

    Head - Tal Rasha's Horadric Crest
    Chest - Haemosu's Adamant Cuirass
    Belt - Trang-Ouls Girth
    Boots - Gore Riders
    Gloves - Soul Drainer Vambraces
    Amulet - The Cats Eye
    Rings - Raven Frost x2
    Shield - Havok Mark Grim Shield
    Weapon - Fleshrender**
    Charms - Smaller + str / +dex / +life


    **I know its a druid weapon but 20% CB 20% DS, 26% OW + more dmg than anything else I've found so far believe it or not)

    ---------------------------------------

    Basically I'm at a stand still on where to go & what to do as my next step. I've been grinding all day seeing as it is the summer now and I have nothing to show for it minus a level 81. This toon is less than a week old, about 4 days to be exact. I have no friends in the community to aid me in anything nor anything worth trading.

    MFing hasn't been going well at all seeing as I don't have a ton of it and when I do swap my MF gear on it happens to be on the slots that my better gear is at, boots / gloves / etc which creates a killing issue bigger than the one I have now.

    I believe I've included everything I should in this post, I appreciate and and all help in advance. Thanks guys. :coffee:
     
  2. Shanksie1337

    Shanksie1337 Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Messages:
    4,143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    :welcome: to the forums

    I'd start with getting your resistances up with either:
    Ancients Pledge Shield - RalOrtTal - which will go nicely in a 3os pally shield if you can find one with some base resistances on it.
    a 4 Perfect Diamond shield - ideally a pally one with some base resistances on it.
    Rhyme Shield - ShaelEth - as a main or mf switch shield with some resists on it.
    Smoke armour - NefLum - in as high a def base armour u can find
    Lionheart armour - HelLumFal - if you find a decent 3os armour

    All these runes should be pretty easy to get if you go and play with The Countess a few times, vigor down and hug the left wall always and you should soon have loads of runes that should help you.

    I'd be tempted to use a den of evil respec thingy if possible and sort out my chance to block via Holy Shield, because the combination of low block and bad resists means you're a dead man walking most of the time.

    Never played NL, so if some of these aren't possible on NL, then plz ignore me :p
     
  3. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Well this is going to be a long battle but you will see MASSIVE improvement with just a few items. I hope your ladder otherwise it could be a little pricey.

    Look for Heavens Light Might scepter with 3 paladin skills and 2 Open sockets........This cost me around pul which is around 20-30 perfect gems.
    +250-300% Enhanced Damage (varies)
    +50% Damage To Undead
    -33% Target Defense
    +20% Increased Attack Speed
    33% Chance of Crushing Blow
    +15-20 Life After Each Demon Kill (varies)
    +2-3 To Paladin Skill Levels (varies)
    +3 To Light Radius
    Socketed (1-2) (varies)

    Socket this with 2 x sheal for a easier time getting a fast zeal.

    Replace soul drainer with Magnus skin
    +50% Enhanced Defense
    +20% Increased Attack Speed
    +100 To Attack Rating
    +3 To Light Radius
    Fire Resist +15%

    This is mainly for the IAS/100 ar which usually a frosty is low on.

    Highlords should be traded for the cats eye for the 1 all skills deadly strike and ias.

    Now a cheap shield would be Spirit in a elite paladin shield . TAL THUL ORT AMN

    Just farm Perfect gems and you should be able to pick up some of these...

    For now you could shael the Fleshrender and switch to any 20 ias gloves because you have a painfully slow zeal when its easy to reach high frames.

    Armors
    Lionheart Hel Lum Fal
    20% Enhanced Damage
    Requirements -15%
    +25 To Strength
    +10 To Energy
    +20 To Vitality
    +15 To Dexterity
    +50 To Life
    All Resistances +30

    Or
    Smoke
    Nef Lum
    +75% Enhanced Defense
    +280 Defense Vs. Missile
    All Resistances +50
    20% Faster Hit Recovery
    Level 6 Weaken (18 Charges)
    +10 To Energy
    -1 To Light Radius

    Just work your *** off farming gems and items and gather this stuff. Heavens light is a cheap and deadly little stick
     
  4. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,942
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    No (cheap :p )spirit in NL though
     
  5. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    I did mention that ^^ I Assume most returnees go to ladder since well , There is no reason not too. Just noticed it clearly says it at the top.

    OH well


    Ral Ort Tal instead of spirit :p

    EDIT

    I have a heavens light/Herald of zakarum that I can donate if your interested. It was off my Old ladder Frosty and id rather the gear go to good use than sit on my mule till i finally go back to non ladder

    PM me your acc name when you get back on or send me a mule to dump them on :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  6. Bladewind

    Bladewind Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    1,855
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    120
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    First and foremost any zeal paladin NEEDS life tap. You need to hunt for a pair of draculs.
     
  7. Frostadin

    Frostadin Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Alright, it appears you have several issues that are making life really tough on you right now.

    #1. Resists. If I read that right your resists are -75? You need to fix your resists ASAP. A 4 perfect diamond shield is a good start until you find better. If you have a gear choice between resists or defense, go with the higher resists until you get them maxxed in hell mode.

    #2. Blocking. 33% blocking on a paladin is almost a sin. I can't tell if you have any in Holy Shield or not, but you need some. According to your stats Hell mode Andy will hit you 87.9% of the time. If she attacks you 100 times you get hit 58 times. Get your blocking to 75% and she would only hit you 21 times.

    #3. Attacks: Attack Rating & Speed. You have a 65.6% chance to hit Hell Andy. Couple this with her 40% blocking and if you zeal 20 times (100 attacks) she only gets hit 39 times. Your weapon is 0 speed and doesn't have any IAS. With Cat's Eye you are zealing at 6 frames, way too slow. Upgrade your weapon (or add a Shael), add a Goldwrap/Nosferatu Coil (10% IAS) and some 20% IAS gloves to speed up. The quicker you kill, the longer you live, you need more AR.

    #4. Damage types. You went full physical and cold damage. While it is very effective against many monsters, I'm sure cold immunes are eating your lunch. Run into any cold and physical immunes yet? You will. You need to add an elemental weapon (Gimmershred, Baranar's Star) or another elemental attack (Holy Shock, Vengeance) in order to be able to effectively finish the game.

    #5. Merc. You never said what merc you have. If you don't have one, get one. They are way too valuable to ignore. I would suggest you go with a Normal mode Offensive merc so you get their Blessed Aim aura. It will basically solve your AR problem. You could also go with a Normal mode Defensive merc and use their Defiance aura. Personally I think killing quicker is better than trying not to get hit.

    #6. Wealth. You lack it, but you need it. Running late nightmare is OK, but IMO you are better off running Hell mode. More experience and better item drops payoff in the long run. For a Frost Zealot the Mausoleum is a great place. Level 85 and I believe there are never cold immunes. Slow to get to, but you can't have it all. I would also run the Countess. With Holy Freeze maxxed out you don't even have to fight anyone unless they're blocking a door. Simply run past the blue monsters until you get to level 5, then smoke the Countess and get your runes.

    My suggestions:
    Personally I would respec. The 20 points in Salvation are basically a waste. Salvation only offers 7% per level to your Holy Freeze.

    Holy Freeze damage with 20 point Salvation:
    216 - 221 aura pulse
    1095 - 1133 added to attack

    Holy Freeze damage without Salvation:
    160 - 164 aura pulse
    815 - 846 added to attack

    You give up about 300 damage per attack but in the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal. You have plenty of room left to increase the damage output as you go.

    I would also take 16 points out of Zeal and the extra 2 points out of Sacrifice. The majority of your damage is coming from elemental and the extra points in Zeal only adds about 75 damage per attack. Leave the Zeal at 4 so you get the maximum attacks, but no more.

    Now take those 38 skill points you reclaimed and put them:
    20 into Holy Shock
    10 into Holy Shield
    8 into Resist Lightning

    Now add a Blessed Aim merc (to cover the AR issues until you get better gear) and you now have better AR, better defense, and 3 forms of damage. Use Zeal/Holy Freeze as usual until you hit a cold immune, then hotkey over to Zeal/Holy Shock. You will lose some killing speed as your physical and cold damage is reduced, but gaining a third damage type and higher lightning resists pays off.

    This build really comes into it's own when you get a shael'ed Baranar's Star (200% to AR plus high base damage and adds elemental damage), Angelic Ammy and 2 Angelic Rings (adds 24 AR per level!). These items get you to a 5 frame zeal with about 10,000 AR so you can ditch the Blessed Aim merc for a Defiance merc and enjoy ridiculously high defense as well. Throw in a pair of Dracul's Grasp and you forget what potions are all about. Kira's provides massive resists and Cannot Be Frozen. All around a fun build that doesn't require a ton of wealth.
     
  8. Shanksie1337

    Shanksie1337 Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2003
    Messages:
    4,143
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    I'm sure you are right because I'm no number cruncher / game mechanics person, but that just sounds so wrong to me :).



     
  9. Meskaline

    Meskaline Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    First and foremost I want to thank you guys for your time in helping me.

    I went non ladder for my first toon because I didn't know how long before the ladder season resets (still dont know), and I also thought ladder was kinda competition to reach the top ranks so I figured non ladder would be more helpful (player base wise).

    Here is the breakdown of the current runes I have in storage:

    1x: Ko, Mal, Hel, Lum, Ith, Thul
    2x: Sol, Eth, Amn, Shael
    3x: Ort, Tir, Ral
    4x: Tal

    I have no idea what can be done with these to best improve my situation. When using these and crafting items with runes is it better to farm for a drop with enough slots or just buy one off the NPCs? Also is there anywhere specific I would farm for dracul's or is that a crafted item out of runes as well? If not, whats the best farm location for my situation.

    (been gone so long, I'm back to nub knowledge lol)

    Thanks again guys!
     
  10. Frostadin

    Frostadin Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    100 attacks x 87.9% chance to hit = 87.9 hits

    87.9 hits x 67% (33% blocked) = 58 hits landed and 29 blocked

    87.9 hits x 25% (75% blocked) = 21 hits landed and 65 blocked

    I enjoy playing this game, but until I started crunching the formulas and numbers I really had no clue what I was doing. The best part of my Diablo game is my Excel spreadsheet.


     
  11. Frostadin

    Frostadin Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Honestly, this ladder will last quite a while. Even if it doesn't nothing happens, your characters will just convert to non-ladder, which is where you are anyway. Yes, non-ladder will generally have people who are more willing to share their wealth, but ladder allows you to have and do more things. I would seriously consider going ladder. Don't worry about the competition to the top, it's only for a handful of people who are running bots.

    Your best rune is the Mal or course, followed by the Ko. I bet you could easily trade your Ko (or maybe even your Hel) for a Baranar's Star. Here are the stats (watch out for the strength requirement):

    One-Hand Damage: 129 To 159 (144 Avg)
    Required Level: 65
    Required Strength: 153
    Required Dexterity: 44
    Durability: 172
    Base Weapon Speed: [10]
    +200% Enhanced Damage
    +50% Damage To Undead
    Adds 1-200 Fire Damage
    Adds 1-200 Lightning Damage
    Adds 1-200 Cold Damage, Duration 0-7 sec.
    50% Increased Attack Speed
    200% Bonus To Attack Rating

    +15 To Dexterity
    +15 To Strength

    Use your socket quest to socket it and put a Shael in there. Coupled with your Cat's Eye you now have a 5 frame Zeal, have doubled your AR, have higher base damage, and have a 4 element attack on every swing (physical, fire, cold, lightning). With your Mal you can probably get a Dracul's, Kira's, and maybe even the 3 Angelic items. That would take care of a bunch of resists, CBF, and Lifetap.
     
  12. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    I disagree that any zealer needs dracs outside of ubur trist, With a small amount of life leech, Around 10% you can tank all but the most difficult groups especially with a defensive build such as a frosty.

    It was always a toss up between Bstar and Heavens light for me and to be honest I preferred to add a substantial amount of crushing blow to the mix.

    Heavens light provides a boost to skills, Crushing blow and -33 target defense along with gore would gives 48% Crushing blow.

    Both are awesome items in their own right though and would serve any frosty well.

    Personally I would go

    1 zeal
    20 sacrafice
    20 freeze
    20 resist cold
    20 Holy Shield
    20 salvation

    Mainly because I like to make the most of my basic aura set up and rely on A Strong physical attack to break through cold immunes using crushing blow/Deadly strike and a respectable damage.

    My old frosty used.

    Guillames (30 FHR, 35% CB, 15 DS)
    Heavens Light(33 Crushing blow,Skills,-target defense and respectable speed)
    HoZ
    Stone (60 FHR)
    Dracs
    Gores (15 CB/10 DS)
    Vendungoes
    2 Ravens + Highlords(37 DS)

    Here we break the 86% FHR break point, Nice resists in hell along with 83% Crushing blow and 62% deadly strike.

    It just seemed like the perfect option to me. I had around 1k max physical with chance to do double .
     
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  13. Meskaline

    Meskaline Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Wolf basically linked up with me and adjusted my whole standing. Donated a bunch of stuff to me and I'm breezing around now with little to no issue. Even being mobbed & rained spells on I'm standing fine. Only time I've seen my health drop below half now is in Hell Pits when I get mobbed (pop rejuv pot and run lol) .... Only 1 rune (JAH) away from actually being able to make an enigma. Picked up Ber in RoF. Respec'd as well, maxed up Holy Shield now my block is @ 75%. Only stuck 1 point into Zeal at the moment and its lv 15 with all my +skills. Maxed cold resist and Holy Freeze as well. Sitting on 15 talent points don't know where I'm going to stick those yet.
     
  14. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Nice work and nice find man.

    Glad I could help but to be honest I think your only problem was the huge resist loss and lack of block. Speed was a smaller issue :p
     
  15. Meskaline

    Meskaline Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    I sniped a Vex rune, i believe thats an "HR" isn't it? Is there anything useful I could trade for that alone or are they pretty worthless without the rest of the runeword runes?

    Also that shako is now socketed, what should I stick in there? a p. topaz for more MF? I remember seeing two different shako's being talked about I know one was in use with a p. topaz but don't remember what else was in the other unless it was a Zod in an eth.
     
  16. RealmOftheWolf

    RealmOftheWolf Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,207
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    166
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Im pretty sure a vex can get you any HR although that may have changed since the latest patch.

    Perfect Topaz for 24 mf or ist for 25(not worth it) or UM for 15 res or BER for 8 DR Or jah for 5% life or sheal for 20 FHR.

    Ill be honest its a fill in what you need type of deal.
     
  17. Meskaline

    Meskaline Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    I'll more than likely throw one of my Sheals in it, gonna try to swap my Vex out for a Jah so i can finish my enigma tonight. That is, once I find a decent armor for it.
     
  18. Frostadin

    Frostadin Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2010
    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Great to hear you're doing well. Kudos to Wolf for helping out. If you don't mind give us a rundown of your gear.

    As for the left over skill points you can go with Holy Shock / Resist Lightning which gives you a way to smoke cold immunes, or you can continue to pump Holy Shield/Defiance for defense. IMO once Holy Shield is maxxed I feel defense has diminishing returns, so I wouldn't go this route. Or you can hold them until you figure out what you want. If this is going to run Ubers then Salvation/Conviction would be very useful.
     
  19. zrk

    zrk Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Messages:
    1,942
    Likes Received:
    4
    Trophy Points:
    165
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Defense does increase survivability linearly, effective amount of life against striking monsters does that is. Though yeah defiance might not beso good due to smaller % lol
     
  20. Meskaline

    Meskaline Diabloii.Net Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2010
    Messages:
    162
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    41
    Re: Frost Zeal Paladin - Moving Forward? (Need Advice)

    Well I've been smashing through all cold immunities now so far for the most part with no issue physically. Although 2 points into Holy Shock / Light Res (one each) and having 15 point talents in each is worth it I guess just in case.

    Ubers is the idea, especially since I can't reset again for free... Salvation/Conviction ... what would i be looking at point wise with those. I mean, what would be the breakdown and why are those required for Ubers?

    I still haven't found a Jah for my Vex nor any armor to make my enigma with. Its annoying.


    I'll do a gear run down in a couple hours, just woke up :)
     

Share This Page