Friendly Fire?

[In the name of Zod]

Friendly Fire?

D1 had it D2 didn't. Now for the opinions, imo it was an annoyance for the most part in D1 however as it did mean being more careful and applying more skill to how you played the game. Without FF you get the spamming of skills. However maybe this question of friendly fire shouldn't be considered a question of yay or nay but more like 'how could it be implemented to work?'. Trying not to take into account the issues such as resistances or damage reduction maybe it could work with a sort-of cellophane like game mechanics at work that controls things outside of the players sphere of influence.

Ok its an obvious view that getting shot by your buddies or accidently killing a friend then having disgruntlements to be dealt with will destroy the enjoyable flow-of-the-game - note #1 (the biggy). So this would have to be dealt with possibly by not allowing players to be killed, instead only injured thru FF in the same way chars can't die from poison in D2 atm. There are other issues such as limiting the damage that area affect spells have on co-players chars etc. There would have to be dynamics built in which would all be a part of the cellophane like layer of gameplay that imo would bring more player skill into the game possibly without the annoyances of the old static style of FF. Could it work, should it be attempted at all? You opinions please.

P.S. I can see the biggest problem being longer play testing more bugs and time spent on this convoluted and probably unnecessary additive. Is that the biggest problem?

 

[Mcwhopper]

Re: Friendly Fire?

I don't think FF will be added. The majority of the Bnet kiddies wouldn't be able to live with it. I for one think it should be added for *some* spells, a bit like Baldurs Gate had fireball/lightning that would wtfpwn your own party if used incorrectly.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Friendly Fire?

It's a good question, Zod.

I have no opinion formulated, I'm afraid. On one hand I can see friendly-fire adding a strategic element to the game. But on the other hand, probably too many worries.

For one, there's the issue of area effect skills that could have the potential of ruining any MP run. And leaving just area skills out of the friendly-fire concept wouldn't make sense. There's also the issue the mechanics would place the burden on multiplay and leave single-play pretty much unchanged. This could almost be seen as an invitation to not MP.

Of course, all would depend on the "seriousness" of the effects and what skills would be affected. But I'm with you when you say friendly fire in D1 was annoying. I'd say more; extremely annoying.

EDIT: The notion of friendly fire around a sorceress waving that beam-like skill I can't remember the name around like a giant stick is scary. But on the other hand I'm curious as to the effect Time Stop will have on partied players.

 

[NASE]

Re: Friendly Fire?

The problem is that half of the population on bnet are morons that don't know how the play the game. Result will be that playing with random people will become close to impossible as there will always be people who are stupid enough to get you killed, or who do it for their own fun.

Conclusions, it doesn't work. It might be interesting to implement it as a single player/open bnet option, yet I can't see any other use.

 

[Demetrium]

Re: Friendly Fire?

I really hope they don't do friendly fire again, for a few reasons.

I disagree with it being a mainly a problem for "b.net kiddies/morons". I'm sure it would be, but the main issue is that it completely goes against intended gameplay. Diablo, for the most part, is about fighting off groups of monsters at a time. Very rarely do you take 1 or 2 monsters on at a time except during boss encounters. Since this type of gameplay is most prevalent, its only natural that many character skills are PBAE, AoE, or splash damage. Since D3 is going to be mainly party based play, this would be nothing but frustrating to deal with...god forbid if you're doing hardcore.

Look at the skills in D2. Think of how bad it would be if there was friendly fire. Corpse explosion would be unusable, poisons would be annoying...I don't even think you could play the assassin. It would just be a mess. I don't think I need to give more examples. Its just a bad idea.

 

[Wolfgang Abenteuer]

Re: Friendly Fire?

It would essentially negate the purpose of the 'hostile' button, and allow people to PK old-school-D1-style, and that was never a whole lot of fun (well, I suppose it was fun for the PKing asshats). I've found that if you give people both anonymity and the ability to be jerks and they will almost always be jerks. At least if you have to go back to town to hostile you won't be joyfully killing monsters and have your 'buddy' just FlameWave spam you to death out of the blue. FF should always be on in FPS games, but in Diablo, I say nay. Not being able to use Frozen Orb, for example, would cripple nearly every Sorc out there while playing in a party.

 

[Mcwhopper]

Re: Friendly Fire?

I really hope they don't do friendly fire again, for a few reasons.

I disagree with it being a mainly a problem for "b.net kiddies/morons". I'm sure it would be, but the main issue is that it completely goes against intended gameplay. Diablo, for the most part, is about fighting off groups of monsters at a time. Very rarely do you take 1 or 2 monsters on at a time except during boss encounters. Since this type of gameplay is most prevalent, its only natural that many character skills are PBAE, AoE, or splash damage. Since D3 is going to be mainly party based play, this would be nothing but frustrating to deal with...god forbid if you're doing hardcore.

Look at the skills in D2. Think of how bad it would be if there was friendly fire. Corpse explosion would be unusable, poisons would be annoying...I don't even think you could play the assassin. It would just be a mess. I don't think I need to give more examples. Its just a bad idea.

Having FF doesn't mean every single skill would have an FF element. I think that FF for *some* spells adds a layer of strategy to the game, since you can't spam it like every other Bnet kiddy is used to. I fully understand that this kind of thing is for a different type of gamer than the one that makes up most of D3's target group, but on a pure "what-if" base I think it would be fun for us gamers that actually have a fully working brain. Yeah Im still stuck up on old DnD, sue me!

 

[Krugar]

Re: Friendly Fire?

Yeah Im still stuck up on old DnD, sue me!

Ah! Me and me buddies aren't alone after all! :thumbup:

 

[PearlJamaholic]

Re: Friendly Fire?

i think it could be done well. but instead of actually harming fellow players it hurts you. and it doesnt have to be HP based. so if you spam a spell that does damage like the blizzard spell that gets calculated against you some how. maybe its a percentage loss from exp gained, or it effects your next x amount drops. but youd have to account for the fact that tanks are gonna be in the way of area effecting spells too. it could also be like an amplify damage(but not as strong) more damage you do to allies the more its gonna hurt you when you take damage from monsters, for spells the more its gonna cost to cast the spell. so you keep spamming corpse explosion, and it would cause damage to your party you better believe CE is just gonna use too much mana to cast really quick, until the effect wears off, couple of seconds.

 

[slickr]

Re: Friendly Fire?

Would it add anything to the gameplay?
-No
Would it make D3 more interesting?
-No

I see no reason why FF should be included, it will probably cause annoyance and frustration.

 

[Xandor]

Re: Friendly Fire?

That would allow people to PK you without warning. I don't miss that part from D1.
Besides would slow down the pace of the game.

 

[Smash]

Re: Friendly Fire?

FF can work. Here are my suggestion.
Add FF toggle button when you create a game as option.
This will work when you play with friends now problem is pub games with PK (player killers), simply add ban and kick vote button like other games has so let's says in max 4 players game you got PK you start vote, all 3 (exclude the one who is a reason) get to vote 2 from 3 is enought to kick or ban from joining your hosted game again.

Or even better idea give player who create game ability to kick or ban players from his game, it is even better. Work in ggames like Counter-Strike or NeverWinterNights.

I missed FF in d2, lack of it dumbed game for me as you could just spam spells without care.

 

[zorro8081]

Re: Friendly Fire?

It was too simple in d2. Spam the kill everything skill (read: hammers), and then move on. Obviously it would change gameplay a bit, but if FF is incorporated, then monsters must be able to hurt each other too...besides, the gameplay change would make it more strategic, which is something they're looking for.

 

[Funkopotamus]

Re: Friendly Fire?

That would allow people to PK you without warning. I don't miss that part from D1.
Besides would slow down the pace of the game.

That's my main concern. I got pked a lot by friendly fire. That or a lot of people were just aggressively reckless.

 

[sirwhere]

Re: Friendly Fire?

If you want realism, you must add it. But then again, Diablo isn't supposed to be realistic, so you don't need to throw that in.

 

[Turnip]

Re: Friendly Fire?

Well to the people who think its stupid, Im sure a lot of people think dying only once because of hardcore is stupid as well.

 

[Krugar]

Re: Friendly Fire?

Well to the people who think its stupid, Im sure a lot of people think dying only once because of hardcore is stupid as well.

I'm not following...

 

[GoldenBird]

Re: Friendly Fire?

Well to the people who think its stupid, Im sure a lot of people think dying only once because of hardcore is stupid as well.

...*moves on*

Well, I do remembered being PKed constantly in D1 :/ There are too many jerks, I think. Even if it wasn't able to kill you, the next hit from an enemy will kill you. Maybe on some skills, like others have mentioned, it might be ok... but I think I'd rather just keep it simple.

 

[xduncanx]

Re: Friendly Fire?

Well i think FF is a really bad idea for D3. The minimal, somewhat arguable increase in tactics are far offset by the negatives (There have been some very good points brought up).

However, on a relevant side note....
When you take down some destructible environment, say a chandelier or a length of wall will that afflict damage to your party members? I think it most likely will, but what effects may this have on gameplay with respect to some of the points brought up in this thread? if any at all.

Can you cheekily stun a party memeber at a crucial moment?
Will the "kiddies/morons" be doing it for fun?

...........

 

[Azymn]

Re: Friendly Fire?

They did confirm at one point that 'destructible traps' did cause damage to teammates, which I haven't heard contradicted by any new information.

Chandeliers are the new PK.

Edit: just an fyi, the chandeliers only stun and do minor damage...unless you imbue them with poison, set them on fire, and detonate them on impact.