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Frenzy Speed (formula)

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by ilkori, Jun 6, 2005.

  1. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    Frenzy Speed (formula)

    I'm trying to do my own spreadsheet for calculating Frenzy speed, which means I don't want to use the German site every time I try tinkering with the equipment. So, I'm looking for breakpoints and related information.

    Compiling the best information I have, Frenzy works in a similar way to many of the dual-wield Assassin skills (including the concept of EIAS for anyone familiar). The Assassin formula for EIAS is :
    EIAS = Skill_IAS + IAS*120/(IAS+120) - WSM

    Taking this equation and speeds from the German site, I got the following information which was sorted by frames for a full Frenzy animation:
    Code:
    Frames	WSM	SIAS	IAS	EIAS	
    10	-30	7	138	101	
    10	0	7	434	101
    10	-10	7	280	101
    11	0	7	223	85
    11	-10	7	157	85
    11	-30	7	80	85
    12	-30	7	50	72
    12	-10	7	102	72
    etc.				
    etc.
    Where, Frames is frames for the entire animation (i.e. twice the number on the German calc), WSM is the base speed of the weapons (two of the same weapons used), IAS is the IAS needed for the given attack speed, and EIAS is following the formula and rounded.

    If this is correct, then 101 EIAS is needed for the 10 frame (5 per weapon) attack speed on Frenzy. If that is indeed the case, then my spreadsheet would be quite happy with me, and I can get to work on equipment combinations.


    So, I guess what I am really after is perhaps some confirmation. That, or a reality check; either one would do fine. :thumbsup:
     
  2. Ash Housewares

    Ash Housewares IncGamers Member

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    that's the trick isn't it? how often is this the case? this is why calculating individual weapon speed is preferable, but good luck
     
  3. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    Thanks, but since I know how to tweak the WSM input, that won't be an issue. It looks like this is the way to go, so I'll stick with it unless someone jumps on my back. :scratch:
     
  4. Fongalv

    Fongalv IncGamers Member

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    hi...

    im afraid i do not understand the table at all...
    as such can someone point me to sonmewhere that has a more comprehensive summary of eias required for frenzy for particular weapons speeds.

    and whats the breakpoints frames for frenzy?


    TIA...
     
  5. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    Conventional wisdom says go here:
    http://diablo2.ingame.de/tips/calcs/weaponspeed.php?lang=english

    The site gives speeds in attacks per second and frames per attack rather than using the animation length. I used the animation length (twice the value listed) because that is how many frames it takes to go a full round (which takes two attacks - one each weapon). The fastest speed is 5 frames per attack (10 per animation).
     
  6. Fongalv

    Fongalv IncGamers Member

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    i saw that site b4 but remember someone saying it might not be accurate for frenzy...

    anyways im using azurewrath/lightsabre or azure/azure with only highlords for ias...shld be enough i guess with lvl 25 frenzy...
     
  7. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    If the base speeds are the same, then the site should always give the correct results. It is only when you start tweaking things that it becomes inaccurate. (It is rather difficult to tweak on accident... at least more than once.)
     
  8. MrNuby

    MrNuby IncGamers Member

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    How about going Dual Heaven's Light and socket 'em both with 3 Shael for 5.5 fpa, or 2 Shael in each for 6 fpa, then you got the 2x33% Crushing Blow too :) Add highlord and Nosferatu's Coil and you're down to 5fpa :)
     
  9. Warrior of Light

    Warrior of Light IncGamers Member

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    Can you explain the concept of EIAS, please, or point to a thread/page about it?
     
  10. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    I guess I should have done that first..

    The entire concept of EIAS is in the equation at the beginning. For a better explanation, I defer to the assassin forum. jRichard was the poineer in the area. This is the link to his site which explains everything: http://e.domaindlx.com/JRichard/D2/aas22/aas22gm.html

    Note: All of the EIAS info is for assassins, but from the calculation I did, it seems that Frenzy works on exactly the same equations with slightly different inputs.
     
  11. Warrior of Light

    Warrior of Light IncGamers Member

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    Thank you! Now I understand this. It's very helpful information.

    Why you took just level 1 frenzy? Level 30 frenzy for example give you SIAS=45, it's much helpful then yours 7.
    Although it would be better if you could continue your table. Its most interesting part IMHO is connection between frames of animation and EIAS. If you know it you may just modify your EIAS by adding or subtracting WSM, SIAS and (IAS*120)/(IAS+120).

    As far as I understand it correctly you did your calculation right. Could you continue the table until 20 frames per animation, and upload your spreadsheet to somewhere and post the link to it here, please? :D

    PS: @Ash Housewares: It is simple to calculate weapon speed when you use different weapons. If you like to switch your weapon slots (for example to echoing weapons), than the game just calculates average base weapon speed of your weapons. If you don't switch, don't die and don't start new game, the game use the strange bug to calculate the speed. Here is a quote of the guide about weapon speed. I have tested it today. It is correct information:
     
  12. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    I only took level 1 Frenzy to limit the amount of change from SIAS. Since this was mostly to verify if EIAS was actually the basis for Frenzy speed, it just seemed natural to just stick it at level one.

    Hmm, you know, I could make it into a table fairly easily. Entering the spreadsheet info itself is pretty basic. Input would be base speed for each weapon (or simply one for WSM), IAS on equipment, level of Frenzy (or SIAS from Frenzy), and then I leave a blank spot for extra bonuses like Fanat. A few basic calculations, and you have EIAS.



    Anyway, here is the full table of Frames vs EIAS as far down as the German site can handle. You can actually get slower, but I don't know where the breaks are.
    Code:
    Frames	EIAS requried (note: the number of frames counts both swings)
    10	101
    11	85
    12	72
    13	61
    14	52
    15	44
    16	37
    17	30
    18	25
    19	20
    20	16
    21	12
    22	8
    23	5
    24	2
    25	0
    26	-3
    27	-5
    28	-8
    29	-10
    30	-11
    31	-13
    32	-15
    33	-17
     
  13. Warrior of Light

    Warrior of Light IncGamers Member

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    Thank you for the table!

    I've made a few tests in the real game with my SP Hardcore Frenzy VitaBarb (character level 33 at the moment of tests). However my results are not the same with German calculator's results. Also I noted that frenzy speed is NOT the same as Assassin's BoS speed. Frenzy IAS in just additional equipment IAS!!! See below.

    Did you test frenzy frames in the real game?

    Here is my tests and calculations.

    Test #1. Two normal crystal swords. Hit the air with frenzy.
    The result: 50 animations per 50 seconds (25*50/50=25 fpa, frames per an animation). An animation is two swings.

    Test #2. Two normal long swords. Hit the air with frenzy.
    The result: 50 animations per 44 seconds (22 fpa).

    Test #3. Equip Steel runeword Broad Sword (20% IAS) first in RIGHT inventory position, then equip magic Bastard Sword in LEFT inventory position. Hit the air with frenzy.
    The result: 50 animations per 36 seconds (18 fpa).

    Test #4. The same equipment as in previous test. Hit Normal players 8 Izual with full speed frenzy (skill level 10).
    The result: 50 animations per 32 seconds (16 fpa).

    Test #5. Equip Steel runeword Broad Sword first in LEFT inventory position, then equip magic Bastard Sword in RIGHT inventory position. Hit Normal players 8 Izual with full speed frenzy (skill level 10).
    The result: 30 animations per 20 seconds (16.67 fpa).

    Well, try to explain the results.
    It the first three tests, when I hit the air, frenzy IAS probably isn't working. So EIAS=(IAS*120)/(IAS+120)-WSM.
    In the first test EIAS=0. Using the table above we can found that fpa=25. Correct.
    In the second test EIAS=10 (WSM=-10 for a long sword). In in the table fpa=22. Correct.
    In the third test WSM=(0+10)/2+(0-10)=-5 (?), EIAS=5+(20*120)/(20+120)=22. In your table fpa=19. In the test fpa=18. What is wrong? May be just bad precision of the tests?
    BTW, German calculator gives 19 fpa for two WSM=-5 swords (Highland Blade), and 21 fpa for two WSM=5 swords (Colossus Blade) at frenzy level 0 and IAS=20.

    In the next two tests things becomes more complicated. At level 10 full frenzy adds 34% IAS.
    In the fourth test WSM=-5 (?). If you calculate frenzy IAS as normal additions IAS, then EIAS=5+(54*120)/(54+120)=42. In the table fpa=16. In the test fpa=16. Correct.
    In the fifth test WSM=(0+10)/2=5. If you calculate frenzy IAS as normal additions IAS, then EIAS=-5+(54*120)/(54+120)=32. In the table fpa=17. In the test fpa=17.

    By German calculator fpa=14 for WSM=-5 and fpa=15 for WSM=5 at frenzy level 10 and IAS=20. The calculator is wrong!?? It also gives fpa=15 for just Broad Sword+Bastard Sword.

    Any comments?
     
  14. Kull

    Kull IncGamers Member

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    Heaven's can have 1-2 sockets thus 3 shaels in it is impossible
     
  15. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    Awesome work, Warrior of Light. The table was generated using a base speed 20 weapon with 0 frenzy, then a base speed -30 weapon with 0 frenzy to get the rest of the breakpoints.

    I didn't try messing around with any other setups, and I haven't done anything with varying speed weapons on the site either. Since I used level 1 Frenzy, your observation could very well be correct. I'll have to look at this more when I have time. I'm a bit busy for the next day or so, but will be able to do more later.
     
  16. ilkori

    ilkori IncGamers Member

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    Those are some strange results. Looks like I'll have to actually try some of my own testing. It wouldn't surprise me if there was a slight error in the calculator with entering base speeds into their database. It's just as likely that there is an error on the Arreat Summit with base speeds. They've been wrong before.
     
  17. Warrior of Light

    Warrior of Light IncGamers Member

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    Use weapon.txt file extracted from patch.mpq file. The game reads weapon base speed from it.
     

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