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Freezing Throwerdin Guide - rough draft

Discussion in 'Single Player Forum' started by Gengis Chuck, Feb 13, 2004.

  1. Gengis Chuck

    Gengis Chuck IncGamers Member

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    Freezing Throwerdin Guide - rough draft

    Hi everybody! :)

    I decided to make a guide for a very fun build I tried. If you have the patience for it I'd appreciate any opinions (good or bad) about the guide. I tried proof-reading and editing it myself, but I'm sure I've missed a ton. My only excuse if it completely stinks is that it's my first attempt at writing one of these things. :p


    GENGIS CHUCK’S FREEZING THROWERDIN GUIDE

    Introduction

    Over the hills they came. Dozens of misshapen demons were clambering over each to get to our hero and his trusted companion. They were craving to taste human flesh to satisfy an insatiable hunger. The hero grimaced and tightened his grip around the haft of one of his throwing axes as his companion sighed and prepared to meet the onslaught. At around 50 paces from the hero the first line of demons hit some invisible barrier and suddenly it was like they were trying to run while underwater. The demons were shocked and terrified by this unnatural and holy cold that gripped their entire being and turned their very skin ice-blue.

    At this point the companion charged with his scythe-like weapon and the hero started hurling axes with blazing speed. The axes came within inches of the charging companion but he didn’t flinch as they flew to their intended targets. The axes struck the demons and were thrown with such force that some of them tore through one demon to strike another. Some demons even shattered on impact as if they were made of ice. . .

    Ahh, Holy Freeze. What a great way to ruin all the cool monster graphics in the game and make them all blue. This aura is normally relegated to your merc for the sole purpose of slowing things down, but its true power can only be realized with a paladin.

    A Freezing Throwerdin is a paladin variant that uses Holy Freeze as his main aura and utilizes the underused throwing weapons. It is also a fairly safe build since it avoids melee 80% of the time and doesn’t necessarily rely on high-end items.

    Stat and skill choices

    Your stats should look something like this:

    Strength – enough for your gear, but know it never hurts to add more since it will add to your physical damage for throwing and when you need to go melee. 125+

    Dexterity – the most important stat for this build as it both adds to damage and helps with the AR as well as keep blocking maxed. 200+

    Vitality – even though you shouldn’t get hit very much some attacks are unavoidable and deadly. Shoot for about 1,000 life.

    Energy – none. You don’t need any at all for Throwing (you get to laugh at those Mana Burn monsters now), and the times when you need to Zeal either a little Mana Leach or mana potions will do the trick.

    Skills:

    Holy Freeze – your main skill and should be maxed. At lvl 20 with maxed synergies you’ll be adding 1,000 Cold Damage to each hit and enemies will be slowed by 54% with a radius of 16.6 yards. At slvl 30 you’d be looking at almost 2,000 cold damage and a radius of 22 yards. 20 points

    Resist Cold – one of the synergies with Holy Freeze it adds 15% cold damage per lvl and should be maxed. It also adds a passive bonus to your max possible Cold Resistance % at a rate of 1% for 2 points invested. So that means with 20 points you will be able to get up to 85% Cold Resistance. 20 points

    Salvation – this is the other skill that synergizes with Holy Freeze and adds 7% cold damage per lvl and should be maxed as well. It is also can be a very handy aura in certain situations if your resists are hurting or happen to be MPing. 20 points

    Zeal – this skill’s purpose is 2-fold. It can be used with Holy Freeze to deliver the cold damage very quickly to Act bosses and superuniques and it can be used with Fanaticism like a typical Zealot to deal with CI’s. Enough points invested to reach 5 hits is all that is necessary, but more AR and damage never hurt. 1-10 points

    Fanatacism – this skill whether used with Throwing or Zeal is a great way to handle CI’s. Your merc will be a better killing machine as well with this active. 20 points

    Redemption – this skill can be fairly handy, but not necessary for this build. Its main purpose would be to recover Life from unleachables such as undead and PI’s as well as get rid of corpses.

    Holy Shield – since defense isn’t a major priority and max blocking can be achieved with high enough dex this skill is not recommended for this build. 0 points

    Conversion – something to help with crowd control. It’s not really necessary with such high Holy Freeze, but hardcore players can always use more crowd control. 0-5 points

    Equipment Choices

    The basic goal equipment-wise is to get max resists, 75% blocking, and Knockback. Surprisingly, I found Knockback to be very handy with Zeal. It’s a great way to separate a single opponent from a pack as well as give a short “stun-like†effect. When a monster is backed up against a wall and constantly being Knockbacked against it there’s not much the monster can do.

    Some mods to look for in general on equipment for this build are IAS, Knockback, Life Leech, Resists, Crushing Blow, Deadly Strike, Cannot be Frozen, and AR boosts.

    Helm – The best helm for this build would be the Delirium runeword (Lem, Ist, Io). The 11% Chance to Cast lvl 18 Confuse per attack makes crowd control incredibly easy, and it also has +2 skills as well. Other good choices are rare circlets with +skills and resists, Andariel’s Visage (IAS, +2 skills), Blackhorns Face (Slows Target, Lightning Absorb), Coif of Glory (chance to Blind), Howltusk (Knockback and Chance to Cause Monsters to Flee).
    Note: the biggest negative with Delirium is the 1% Chance to Cast Delirium When Struck. This turns your character into a Bone Fetish for a minute or so and though your attack becomes a normal one, your aura is still active. I tended to still attack (head butt) as long as the situation wasn’t too dangerous and since this build doesn’t get hit very often it only activated once or twice an Act.

    Amulet – A top choice here is Highlord’s Wrath as the 20%IAS, +1 Skills, Deadly Strike, and LR are just great. Mara’s Kalaidescope (+2 skills, Resist All), or a rare amulet with + pally skills and/or resists works well too.

    Armor – There are a lot of choices with armors, but probably the best would be the Chains of Honor Runeword (+2 skills, 65% Resist All, LL, PDR). I used Lionheart armor for my thrower and it worked great with the massive stat bonuses, 20% Enhanced Damage, and great resists. Other options would be Duriel’s Shell, Crow Caw, Spirit Forge w/IAS jewels, Guardian Angel, or Twitchroe.

    Weapon – Again there are a lot of options. At the top would be the Warshrike Winged Knife (decent damage, IAS, 50% Deadly Strike, 50% Pierce). A very close second place would be the Gimmershred Flying Axe (massive elemental damage, IAS, large stack size). Really anything with a fast base weapon speed will be fine through Normal and Nightmare.
    Note: The Gimmershred will allow some flexibility as it works well as a weapon for Zeal as well and the lower hp CI’s will still fall pretty quickly if you don’t like switching weapons or auras very often.

    Weapon switch – This will be used for when you want to Zeal against bosses and such. Arguably the best would be a Stormlash or a close 2nd place and much easier get hold of Crescent Moon (Shael Um Tir) Phase Blade both for the blazing fast speed and Chance to Cast Static Field. Other great options: Doom, Call to Arms, Azurewrath, Baranar’s Star, Nord’s Tenderizer, Lightsaber, Butcher’s Pupil, Fleshrender, or a decent rare with high ED% and IAS.

    Shield – Best bet here would be a Herald of Zakarum. Other good choices are the Sanctuary runeword (high resists, increased blocking, and Slow Missile), Moser’s Blessed Circle w/ 2 P-Diamonds (high resists, high blocking), or a good pally shield with 4 sockets w/ P-Diamonds.

    Rings – A great choice here would be Ravenfrost (AR, Cannot be Frozen, +Dex) and even 2 wouldn’t hurt. Another handy ring is Nature’s Peace (Prevent Monster Heal and Slain Monsters Rest In Peace). Otherwise, rare rings with resists and Life Leach would be useful.

    Belt – Not as many choices here as Razortail is by far the best with it’s Dex boost and most importantly the 33% Pierce. Nosferatu’s Coil has some very nice mods like 10% Slows Target, LL and 10% IAS. Thundergod’s Vigor can be very handy in certain situations with its Lightning Abosrb and +10% to max LR, especially against Gloams and Black Souls.

    Gloves – Cleglaw’s Claw is a fantastic item for this build. The Knockback and 25% Slow really come in handy. Power Hit Crafted gloves with Knockback and IAS would work very well too.

    Boots – Goreriders would be the best choice here, although Marrowalks with the high lvl Bone Prison would be an interesting possibility. Otherwise, rare boots are a great way to help out with resists.

    Charms – This is a great way to help any resists or AR that you’re lacking, but if you’re fine in that area then you can use +Max Damage Charms for more physical damage or Offensive Grand Charms to boost Holy Freeze and Fanatacism.

    Holy Freeze and Slows Target by % Equipment

    These two things do stack so if you’ve got slvl 20 Holy Freeze (54% Slows Target) and wearing Cleglaw’s (25% Slows Target) you’d be slowing the monsters by 79%.

    Other non-weapon Slows Target equipment: Blackhorn’s Face (20%), Nosferatu’s Coil (10%), Medusa’s Gaze Aegis (20%), and Arachnid’s Mesh (10%).

    There are limits though as you can’t use Slows Target equipment and Holy Freeze to completely immobilize monsters:
    90% cap for monsters
    50% cap for supers/champions and such

    It doesn’t hurt having more than 90% Slows Target since there are times when you won’t have Holy Freeze active.

    Mercenaries and Attack Rating

    Its an odd combination to talk about normally but pretty critical for the Freezing Throwerdin. Since Throwing adds no AR bonus and Holy Freeze doesn’t either, getting a decent AR can be a challenge. The easiest way to solve this problem is to hire a Blessed Aim desert merc in Act II. Between high dex and your merc you should be fine.

    If you prefer another type of merc, you can make up for not having a Blessed Aim merc with the right equipment. One easy solution is using the Angelic Amulet and Angelic Ring (1 or 2) combo for a huge boost to AR. Also, Sigon’s Helm along with another piece from the set can give a good bonus to AR. There are also helms with the Visionary prefix for AR help, or charms can help quite a bit.

    By the time you reach Hell you’ll want your AR to be at least 5,000 and probably more for a minimum 75% chance to hit most monsters.

    Playing Strategies

    This build can start right away with its theme and use Throwing Knives or Javelins at the beginning. I recommend using plain white ones instead of magic or rares simply because you can equip a set and keep some in your inventory. When you run out from your weapon slot the ones from your inventory will automatically equip. That way you don’t need to go to town quite as often for repairs.

    Until lvl 6 you will be relying on Might aura for a tiny damage bonus and then you can invest a single point into Holy Fire (prereq for Holy Freeze) which will add a respectable 6-18 Fire Damage to your weapon.

    Aside from spending a point in Sacrifice and a point or two into Zeal at lvl 12, the rest of your points (about 13) can be put into Resist Cold until you reach lvl 18 and can start using Holy Freeze. Then you can work on maxing Holy Freeze and Resist Cold. At that point, around lvl 45, you can begin to work on Fanatacism as your entering Nightmare. By the time you reach Hell you should have Holy Freeze, Resist Cold, and Fanaticism all maxed. You can put any extra points into Salvation and eventually into either Zeal or Sacrifice depending on your AR for melee.

    Most of the Act Bosses can be handled with Zeal and Holy Freeze since they tend to be easier to face up close, though if your merc can tank effectively, then it never hurts to stay at range.

    Getting through Normal and Nightmare is relatively easy as there are very few Cold Immunes and skill switching is at a minimum. In Hell you’ll need to adapt somewhat frequently to the situation, and you’ll have four basic attack options:

    Throwing/Holy Freeze: usage – 70% (for anything non-CI and FE supers)
    Throwing/Fanaticism: usage – 10% (for regular CI monsters)
    Zeal/Holy Freeze: usage 10% (for bosses and high HP supers)
    Zeal/Fanaticism: usage 10% (for bosses and CI supers)

    I would tend to use Fanaticism when my Blessed Aim merc died, since it helped make up for the AR loss.

    The biggest weakness is running across the occasional Physical Immune/Cold Immune super. It can be handled moderately well if you’ve got the right equipment such as a merc with Reaper’s Toll (Decrepify), or using a Gimmershred with Zeal or Throwing or some other weapon with high Lightning or Fire Damage. If you don’t have anything like that, or you run out of patience, you can do what my Werebear did against PI’s . . . run! ;)

    Finally, the only frustrating aspect of the Thrower for me was the need to go back to town to replenish the stacks on the weapons. If you’ve got something with Replenish Quantity, it will save some time (you will still run out) and be a whole lot cheaper since it will only cost 1 gold to repair those. I used two Gimmershreds simply to avoid going to town as often, though it was fairly expensive repairing both. On a related not I had also tried some of the unique javelins but the low stack sizes on those were too tedious for me.

    Build Variations

    There are several other ways to make this type of build. Instead of using Fanaticism for handling CI’s you could go with Holy Shock as it shares Salvation as a synergy with Holy Freeze. You could also use Vengeance as a backup skill instead of Zeal and either go with either Fanaticism or Conviction. The two negatives with Vengeance is that it is fairly mana intensive and although it shares a synergy with Holy Freeze (Resist Cold), that synergy will only boost the Cold damage that Vengeance delivers which won’t give any extra help against CI’s.

    Conclusion

    The was a very fun character to play, and after playing many characters to Pat/Mat in 1.09 and 1.10 this was the only one to make it through the entire game without dying at any difficulty level.

    This build is not going to be able handle Hell at ‘players 8’ or do ‘players 4’ Pit runs with 500%MF. However, it is still my safest and one of my fastest Baal runners and is versatile enough to handle almost any situation.

    For the curious, my Thrower’s final gear: Delirium Tiara, Lionheart Archon Plate, Weapon/Shield 1: Gimmershred/Herald of Zakarum, Weapon/Shield 2: Baranar’s Star/Sanctuary Sacred Targe, Cleglaw’s Pincers, Razortail, Goreriders, Highlord’s Wrath, Ravenfrost, Nature’s Peace, Resist Charms, and Offensive Skiller Charms.
     
  2. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    very nice, havent considered a throwdin yet myself.
    coudl be fun!
     
  3. Moog_playa

    Moog_playa IncGamers Member

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    Just curious...did you name your first one Gengis_Chucker ?

    *rimshot*

    thank you...I'll be here all week!
     
  4. ricrestoni

    ricrestoni IncGamers Member

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    I was wonderind about a Fire Rogue as a merc. She does fire damage, has a better AI and the skill she uses, Inner Sight, lowers enemies' defense, working much alike raising your AR. And you got the non-guard merc originality bonus!
     
  5. Zavior

    Zavior IncGamers Member

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    Very nice guide! Just what I was looking for.. Now my Gimmershred will have some use :)
     
  6. Gengis Chuck

    Gengis Chuck IncGamers Member

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    farting bob: thanks!

    Moog playa: :rolleyes: :p

    ricrestoni: That's an interesting idea with the fire rogue. The only problem is that since the paladin has no castable minions his best chance at getting a tank is with an Act II or Act V merc. If I get a chance though, I'd like to test a rogue out somehow and see how viable it is.

    Zavior: thanks!
     
  7. farting bob

    farting bob Banned

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    i agree, you need a tank whiel you throw. and the radius of blessed aim far outdoes inner sight.
     
  8. Ravenforce3

    Ravenforce3 IncGamers Member

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    As well, Inner Sight only lowers the monster defense by a set number. If it only removes 800 def. and your opponent has upwards of 5000 (unlikely, but possible,) Inner Sight may just be a drop in the bucket.
     
  9. Nightfish

    Nightfish IncGamers Member

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    Good job. :) One small thought: Wouldn't this be one of the perfect builds to use my all time favorite angelic rings & ammy? At high levels each of the rings gives about 1k AR. I'm just asking because you recommend pushing dex for AR which I found to be one of the worst things one can do. (cost / gain - wise)

    Second small thought: Blessed aim supposedly gives a 5% AR bonus even when it's not active. Might that be worth a few points once the main skills are done?

    Third small thought: Are you really sure you don't want holy shield? I'm just asking because with just a few points you get a huge blocking bonus, which means you can put a lot more points in vit... (yes, I've been playing a lot of HC lately, so shoot me. :teeth: )
     
  10. Vajar

    Vajar IncGamers Member

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    The highest defense is in the game is 2800 - Baal. A drop in 800 defense is a HUGE help - against anything. Most monsters have <1800 defense. Thats almost -50% target defense against all mosnters.

    (This ignores the stone skin modifier, which triples defense of a monster. Lister has the highest defense in the game if he spawns with stone skin - just under 7400 defense.)

    Also, if you need help hitting, I strongly suggest pumping blessed aim, the aura. It grants a passive 5% AR per skill level - when the aura isn't active. I suggest maxing this and chopping fanatacism to 5 points (for IAS), zeal to 1 point and salvation to 15 points. Rely on a might mercenary to boost your damage passively. Consider wearing lava gouts for gloves, they grant a 101% AR bonus for 6 minutes when enchant fires off (often enough if you have good piercing). I'd keep a pair of these in inventory/cube so you have enchant always on - if you have AR problems.

    Lava Gout + 20 in Blessed Aim gives you 300% AR - plenty with the high dex you'll have. You'll also be dealing good physical damage with a might mercenary, even with the holy freeze aura on.
     
  11. Gengis Chuck

    Gengis Chuck IncGamers Member

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    About small thought #1: Building Dex is 3-fold. It increases your AR, it increases your blocking, and it increases your damage. Also, I did state the Angelic combo in the Merc and AR section, although that's taking up 2 or 3 slots of equipment simply for AR:
    "If you prefer another type of merc, you can make up for not having a Blessed Aim merc with the right equipment. One easy solution is using the Angelic Amulet and Angelic Ring (1 or 2) combo for a huge boost to AR. Also, Sigon’s Helm along with another piece from the set can give a good bonus to AR. There are also helms with the Visionary prefix for AR help, or charms can help quite a bit.:

    About small thought #2: That is a good idea that I completely forgot about. I'll put that in there for the next version. Thanks!

    About small thought #3: I was torn on the Holy Shield idea. It's fairly expensive in the prereqs needing 4, and then spending 3 or 4 more points to get a half-way decent duration is a lot of skill points when a semi-decent pally shield has good inherent blocking anyway.
    I guess you can look at it one way with the putting more points in Vitality vs. more in Dex. More Dex means more damage and therefore higher leach. It definitely doesn't hurt to put the option in the guide though. :)
     
  12. Death_Dealer

    Death_Dealer IncGamers Member

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    Great guide. I had been considering a throw barb since I have found a number of the thrower weapons but this sounds like it could be a lot of fun. Thank you! I will add this to my collection of guides.
     
  13. Gengis Chuck

    Gengis Chuck IncGamers Member

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    Hmm, that's a lot of good ideas . . . except that it puts a lot of my basic build ideas on its head. :p
    I'll see if I can incorporate those ideas into the guide as an alternative way of building a Thrower. Thanks. :)
     
  14. Icebird

    Icebird IncGamers Member

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    Excellent guide. I was thinking of using the Buriza I found with the Optimists to make a FrostRanger character - different equipment, but the skill placement and strategy would be similar.

    In your discussion of throwing weapons, you left out the Lacerator, the unique winged axe. Features: replenishes quality, IAS, Prevent Monster Heal, Hit causes monster to flee, Open Wounds, and probably the best feature - 33% chance to cast Amp Damage on striking. Can you say "physical immunes be gone!"?

    Chris
     
  15. Ravenforce3

    Ravenforce3 IncGamers Member

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    I was just using that as an example. I don't know how much def. Inner Sight drops by at lvl 20. As well, I don't believe it works vs. act end bosses, anyway. I do agree, though, that it could possibly help some. I'm looking into that with my Frozen Zealot now (Damn Act Three merc is costin me too much to res for the amount of damage he does...) It's amazing, too, how much Fanat helps out an Eaglehorn on one of them.
     
  16. lemon

    lemon Banned

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    This is one more build that i MUST trie....
     
  17. Gengis Chuck

    Gengis Chuck IncGamers Member

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    a little bump to see if anybody has any other comments on the guide before I update it. :)


    --------------

    I'm going to test the Lacerator before I reccommend it (or if anybody has used it a lot and be kind enough to share their experiences :) ). I don't know if the Hit Causes Monster To Flee 50% would be a help or a hindrance, although fortunately it wouldn't work against supers and champions.
     
  18. nemar

    nemar IncGamers Member

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    I must say only one thing : do it again with no muling ! :lol:
     
  19. Gengis Chuck

    Gengis Chuck IncGamers Member

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    In SC no problem. In HC, on the other hand, it would be very challenging. :p
     
  20. nemar

    nemar IncGamers Member

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    why do you speak about SC ? are you a real paladin or a fallen ????? :yep:
     

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