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Forum FYI: Why Dual Call to Arms weapons don't stack for barbs (1.28.04 restoration)

Discussion in 'Barbarian' started by Halciet, Jan 28, 2004.

  1. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    Forum FYI: Why Dual Call to Arms weapons don't stack for barbs (1.28.04 restoration)

    Since there seems to be a lot of confusion regarding the proper functioning of these items, and a massive amount of posts providing false information on the topic, I decided to put up this thread for easy reference until such time as the Barb FAQ can be updated.

    Why call to arms weapons don't stack for barbs:

    First off, the runeword itself has been altered from the beta to use different runes (amn ral mal ist OHM) and to likewise provide lower totals for the three warcries in question; thus, there is no way to get +26 from item in general.

    Now then, one of the most common misconceptions about CtA is that if a barb wields two at one time, he can greatly increase his skill with Battle Orders by upwards of +8-12. In reality though, if you actually went out and made two copies of this rather expensive runeword in hopes of garnering a massive increase to your cries, you will be sadly dissapointed, and here is why:

    Prior to 1.10, we had three major types of +skill items: items that gave +to all skills in a single tree (tskills), items that gave +to a specific skill for it's base class in general (this is including the +skills on class-specific items, which we will call cskills), and items that gave +all skills (askills). With the advent of the patch, however, a new form was added: +to a specific skill, while granting it to all classes, which we shall henceforth refer to as "oskills." Items that fall into this category, such as Enigma, CtA, and Trang's set pieces, grant a specific skill such as BO, Fireball, or Teleport to all classes.

    In order to nerf the power of these items a bit, a limiter has been placed in the code structure that puts a cap of +3 on the amount of extra skill a class can receive from an oskill item if said skill is in their skill tree to begin with. Thus, a sorc wearing trang's set pieces would only gain +3 to fireball, rather than +18. Similarly, a barbarian wielding two CtA weapons can only get a maximum total of +5 to BO from them (+3 from the oskill, and then +2 from the askill mod on each weapon). Keep in mind that this limitation only applies to oskill items; you can raise your BO as much as you want through askill, cskill, and tskill items and effects, but only by +3 from an oskiller.

    A few tables, to help explain all this jibberish:

    2x CtA Weapons: +(4-5) BO/BCom/BCry, +2 to all other warcries;

    1x CtA and 1x "Echoing" weapons: +(5-7) BO/BComm/BCry, +4 to all other warcries;

    2x "Echoing" weapons: +6 to all warcries

    This is, in effect, why CtA weapons are relatively useless to barbarians; they are not only excessively expensive, but are also less powerful than their far, far cheaper cousins, the "Echoing" weapons. Granted, there is the possibility to obtain +7 to BO/BComm/BCry in the second scenario posted above, but even in that event one would be losing the extra +2 that would've been granted to all your skills by twin echoing weapons. It is in the best interest of the barbarian player to just stick with tried-and-true echoers, which cost only gold and can be easily shopped in later levels, rather than wasting valuable runes in this virtually worthless runeword.

    -Hal

    reposted 1.28.04 following forum wipe
     
  2. bigballerpaul

    bigballerpaul IncGamers Member

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    gogo hal!

    way to be on the ball!
     
  3. xpumafangx

    xpumafangx IncGamers Member

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    Thank god some one said it!
     
  4. insenothepunk

    insenothepunk Banned

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    YAY :clap: Hal proves himself the uber barb brain once again. Three :drink: for you hal.
     
  5. TheKbob

    TheKbob IncGamers Member

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    Hal, you seriosly never stop amazing me with your knowledge. I am now re-making my Iron Barb that is based off your guide, but with Eth BotD CB now. You may have reminded my lengthy posts and pms to get my barb tweaking right.

    Good job though and keep it up.

    ~Kbob
     
  6. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

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    glad to see you got it back :thumbsup:
     
  7. peddroelm

    peddroelm IncGamers Member

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    Wolfbarbs

    how bout a beast wearing barb ? will +lycantrofy from rune word and helmet slack ?
     
  8. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

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    yes, because it's not a barb skill
     
  9. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    Thus, since lycantropy is not in the barb skill tree, the oskill code doesn't apply to this. Yes, they will stack.

    -Hal

    edit: thnx meme :)
     
  10. A_S_G

    A_S_G IncGamers Member

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    If people had any brains they also could of went here lol.

    But yes, finally something easily accessed for people too lazy to actually go to Arreat Summit, Good job :thumbsup:
     
  11. CH-Luigi

    CH-Luigi Banned

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    Hal is very well informed about barbs and btw I'll drink to that insenothepunk :drink: GJ hal!
     
  12. FromHell

    FromHell Banned

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    Lol you guys dident know this :) I tought everyone did
     
  13. BlueShadow

    BlueShadow IncGamers Member

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    Hiya everybody,

    I was reading this thread and I think I kinda understand what is being said. Does the +3 to skills cap only apply to the Barbs Warcrys, or does it apply to his combat skills tree?

    The reason I ask is because I wanted to make a barb with dual FURY rune-daggers or swords. Each fury weapon has +5 to frenzy, so I thought that with two of them equipped I would be getting a total of 10 added on top of my 20 regular skill points. Then I was gonna try to find a non-magical Barb helm with +3 to frenzy or combat skills and make it into a rune helm with another +1 to skills. Then add to that all other +1 or +2 to skill items like armor, boots, ammy and rings.

    Anyways, I just wanted to know if my Frenzy Barb will have problems with dual equipped FURY weapons.

    Thanks
     
  14. memememe173

    memememe173 IncGamers Member

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    that'll be ok, because those bonuses have barbarian only on them, while the CTA doesn't
     
  15. BlueShadow

    BlueShadow IncGamers Member

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    ahhh, I think I understand now.

    So if a non barb skill like teleport was given to my Barbarian through an Item then I am only limited to +3? But since Frenzy is a Barb specific skill, I do not have a cap.
     
  16. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    No, you're not understanding the idea. Any item that gives a skill to all characters will only give up to +3 to a character that has the skill in their tree already. If an item gave +42 Frenzy to anyone that used it, then paladins, sorcs, etc, would get +42 frenzy. A barb, on the other hand, would only get +3 from that item.

    Now, if an item gave, say, +15 Zeal to anyone who equipped it, then a barbarian would get +15 zeal when he used it, and paladins would only get +3.

    -Hal
     
  17. BlueShadow

    BlueShadow IncGamers Member

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    oh crap, so it looks like I got it backwards then.

    But I noticed that the CTA has all the warcrys listed but no parenthesis afterwards. But FURY says +5 Frenzy (Barbarian only). Since the Frenzy stats for FURY state in ( ) that is is for a Barb only, is it going to be different from CTA?

    Sorry to get OT from the discussion, but I dont want to get all the way to lvl 60-70 and find out my dual FURY weapons wont give me +10 to frenzy. My main goal with my Barb was to get Frenzy as high as possible (~40 pts) and max out Inc Speed.

    Thanks
     
  18. Halciet

    Halciet IncGamers Member

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    Yes, now you're getting it. Fury will work, since it says (Barbarian Only); if it just said +5 Frenzy, then you could only get 3 total from it.

    -Hal
     
  19. BlueShadow

    BlueShadow IncGamers Member

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    Sweet, so looks like I'll still be able to make my uber-frenzy-barb. hehehe

    thanks Hal
     
  20. Teragram

    Teragram IncGamers Member

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    Hi, I've never posted here before (in the barbarian forum) but here's a pseudo-related question:

    Say I'm using a 'call to arms' weapon on a non-barbarian. Let's call it a paladin.

    If I (with this paladin) wear an item that has +warcries or +barbarian skills on it (say, an amulet), will this be added to the +skills on the warcries from the CTA?

    So, say I have a natural +6 battle orders on the CTA. I know wearing a +1 all skills armor like vipermagi will give me a +7 to battle orders. If I'm also wearing a +3 warcries amulet or +2 barbarian skills amulet, will I then have battle orders at 10/9 skills, effectively?

    Thanks in advance,

    *Teragram (USEast HCL)
     

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