For people saying bowzon is useless

For people saying bowzon is useless

I just think they take more skill.
IMO, necs and zons have switched places, zons used to be the unbeatable ranged, and necs the underdogs.

You guys need to rely more on poison/knockback/SPEED/open wounds, instead of huge damage.

Anyone who can get this-

Rare mat bow, best would be (cruel masters mechanics of alacrity amplify damage the bear)
450 e/d
200-ish AR
20ias
5% chance to cast amp
Knockback
2 Sockets (ShaelUm it)

This EASILY beats out windforce/botd.

Along with that
E/D/60IAS armor
Crown of Ages, ed/30ias jeweled.
Highlords
Raven Frosts or adual leech ring like Raven Spiral
Verdungo's
Dracul's Grasp
RUN WALK CHARMS.

That's a 7 frame shot, about 3k (AT LEAST 250 DAMAGE AN ARROW IF THEY HAVE MAX DR) damage + 60% open wounds and as much poison as you want, instead of huge damage arrows use FAST arrows to stun and deliver poison and open wounds (you can still pull off some nice shots with crit/deadly, and the amp on the bow)
You can max guided, get about 5 in multi (use it to kill minions and poison/bleed people), and then you have 70 points to put in your passives, I recommend a lvl 17 valk, max critical, and divide the rest in d/a/e.
Slow missles is great too.

Don't knock it until you've tried it.
 

tl998

Banned
In other words...you still need ridiculousy good equipment that requires 10000 hours of mf to acquire right? Besides Ravenfrost, I don't have ONE piece of equipment on your list and I've been playing for months. I'd love to see some suggestions for untwinked builds.
 

Darklyre

Diabloii.Net Member
Dracul's and Verdungo's aren't that hard to get, nor are they extremely expensive (I got my Dracul's for pgems, and Verdungo's aren't much higher in cost). Other items you could try are Cat's Eye in place of Highlord's, as it has IAS and +25 Dex bonus. Andariel's Visage could work, as it has IAS on it as well. As for armor, I'm not too sure what would be best. I'm using a Lionheart Dusk Shroud myself.
 
tl998 said:
In other words...you still need ridiculousy good equipment that requires 10000 hours of mf to acquire right? Besides Ravenfrost, I don't have ONE piece of equipment on your list and I've been playing for months. I'd love to see some suggestions for untwinked builds.
Sure, it's more expensive then buriza.
Nec gear was expensive as HELL in 09, same with good zon gear now.
 

Superhal

Diabloii.Net Member
fenris is talking about bowazon pvp, which is always expensive.

untwinked pvp?!? what is that?
 

Freyas

Diabloii.Net Member
Superhal said:
fenris is talking about bowazon pvp, which is always expensive.

untwinked pvp?!? what is that?
Well, in the hardcore forum, people often organize ironman tournaments which consist of the participants taking an untwinked character, leveling them up to level 9, and only using what they find/shop along the way, and then fight to the death with these characters.... that's about the only untwinked PvP that I've ever heard of, though.
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
Fenris, what you are basically suggesting is that we redefine the term 'bad manner'.

Dracul's has Lifetap, the bow seems to have Amplify damage and knockback, you incite the usage of mass poison... three of these four things the amazon was being apalled for in 1.09 and the fourth, life tap, was unavailable.
This type of character seems a lot like an open wounds whirlwind assassin... and they are not held in very high regard. I'm certain this type of amazon build will work, but I am uncertain if people want to resort to such tactics. It's basically a bad manner 1.09 character, but now with 1.10 items.

I don't know why you emphasized speed since most bowazons have always been notoriously built around 7fps or 8fps.

I also don't know why you recommend valkyrie. It does good damage but its AI is horrible, it still dies pretty fast and I think you can still leech from it (didn't check though). Seems like you can spend those points a lot better in other skills.
 
Kirsty said:
Fenris, what you are basically suggesting is that we redefine the term 'bad manner'.

Dracul's has Lifetap, the bow seems to have Amplify damage and knockback, you incite the usage of mass poison... three of these four things the amazon was being apalled for in 1.09 and the fourth, life tap, was unavailable.
This type of character seems a lot like an open wounds whirlwind assassin... and they are not held in very high regard. I'm certain this type of amazon build will work, but I am uncertain if people want to resort to such tactics. It's basically a bad manner 1.09 character, but now with 1.10 items.

I don't know why you emphasized speed since most bowazons have always been notoriously built around 7fps or 8fps.
You're still in your 09 mindset kirsty, this is 1.10.
Imagine if a 20k fireball sorc or 7k bone spirit necro, or even a botd char we're in 09, OMG BM!!11!!
 

Shadoway

Diabloii.Net Member
Superhal said:
fenris is talking about bowazon pvp, which is always expensive.

untwinked pvp?!? what is that?
Then he should state in the title.
Plus, I believe that bow has never been dropped and will never drop.
 

LeGardien

Diabloii.Net Member
Æ’enris said:
I just think they take more skill.

You guys need to rely more on poison/knockback/SPEED/open wounds, instead of huge damage.
Perhaps it's because I still have a bit of a "09 mindset," but I found this incredibly amusing.

Æ’enris said:
You can max guided, get about 5 in multi (use it to kill minions and poison/bleed people), and then you have 70 points to put in your passives, I recommend a lvl 17 valk, max critical, and divide the rest in d/a/e.
70 points in passives? Sounds like a pretty inflexible character to me, especially since many people can outrun GA or run them into walls. Valk's incredibly long casting delay makes it nearly impractical except as an occasional meatbag which provides life to any character with leech or Enigma.

It's worth mentioning that since the gains in the passive skills drop off asymptotically after a few points, the return on maxing the skills over putting, say, 5-10 points in them is only about 10% each. I'd rather have one or two elemental bow/jav skills as backup.

Crown of Ages = 174 req str = a lot of stat points.
Also, why Highlord's and not Cat's? With maxed crit you'd only gain about a 10% effective increase in your chance to deal double damage.

Æ’enris said:
Don't knock it until you've tried it.
Have you tried it?
 

Shug_Ninx

Diabloii.Net Member
I'm glad I gave up on 1.10. Slow? Knockback, and charges along with % to cast? !.10 PvP seems like a joke to me.
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
Æ’enris said:
You're still in your 09 mindset kirsty, this is 1.10.
Imagine if a 20k fireball sorc or 7k bone spirit necro, or even a botd char we're in 09, OMG BM!!11!!
You've been seduced by the dark side. May Freya discard you as a warrior and let shame overcome you....

Seriously now. I see dueling as skill mainly and using lifetap to stay alive does not fit in there and using mass poison from non-skill sources seems equally dodgy to me. Knockback I don't really mind though.
 
Kirsty said:
You've been seduced by the dark side. May Freya discard you as a warrior and let shame overcome you....

Seriously now. I see dueling as skill mainly and using lifetap to stay alive does not fit in there and using mass poison from non-skill sources seems equally dodgy to me. Knockback I don't really mind though.
I'm just saying, you see a zon with wf shooting at like 12fpa whining about how much bowzons are nerfed.
IMO, there are a lot of 'cheap' things in 1.10, huge damage, botd (ith ;)), enigma, but instead of sitting and crying about it, when you can't change anything, learn how to counter it.
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
Yes, I know what you mean. Bowazons have become quite inferior now that the other classes had such a big boost and most public amazons depended on pierce as well. Me, I'd rather learn to counter other people's weaknesses on a more appropriate level rather than 'joining the cheapness' so to speak. I'm not certain how you look at it though but you seem to have little troubles with the latter.

BotD sadly for bowazons doesn't come in ethereal form so basically we're left with the ultimate rares, windforce, some bows like Hand of Justice perform okayish, the old cruel bows and soe uniques which involve personal preference and 'this is the best I can get' kind of ideas. I've met a few good bowazons so far and they did not rely on poison or open wounds, so I think it just takes some thought to create a good amazon nowadays. I'm happy that it is not as straightforward as most builds.
 

BT-LightDash

Diabloii.Net Member
Fenris: the main problem with people/dueling community/pubby in general is that they are very bias
u might ask why?
because to them teleport using enigma + call to arms + their 1337 spells are fine and a bowzon?
omg this zon is using kb it's noob dont use it[ESPECIALLY LEAGUES OMG I CANT BELIEVE THEY STILL THINK WF AND/OR KB IS OverpowereD]
omg this zon uses mass posion it's lame[it is but even like 500 pd to them is lame]
omg this zon uses amplify+slow[slow dosent make a difference much anymore every1 uses tele+slow was nerfed]
omg u use more than 1 absorb u cant do that only 1 absorb is allowed and u will still get owned by my 1337 spells hahaha

so how are zons gonna have a chance?
if i am wrong[meaning it's actually OK to use all these ima gonna start a zon and i will name her YouCantWin[i will still be proved wrong of course]

And 1 more thing,if u have life tap u wont need amplify and vice versa since only 1 curse works at a time...
 

simmk81

Diabloii.Net Member
this is turning out to be a very hurting and flameful thread with two persons at extreme sides. Kirsty, for one, having being in the Zon forum for longer than most of us, deserves more respect and having come from a Druid background, Fenris, I think you shouldn't go so hard on her as she plays her game by her own sets of rules and honor. Each one of us have a different meaning of manners and honor and if like what she says, skills. Why not? Maybe if we really tried to put aside the differences and look at them in a different perspective (i'm not saying i'm not condoning the fact that enigma abusers and poison damage are not bm), in any sense, whether you go equipment dependant or skill dependant, at the end of the day, there's always someone to counter what you feel is right.

My $0.02 with all this thread- i think the zon you're referring to can be more geared towards pvm instead of pvp. and if pdsc and life tap etc comes into play when duelling, keep in mind that they might not win, however cheap the tactics is. And seriously, i won't even get a valkyrie or decoy for pvp fyi. it's a big waste of mana, casting time and generally people avoid them (unless they are like rabies ww and are on a crazy infection rampage [aka SARS] ). The points in passive would go well in d/a/e, critc, no doubt, but if it's a real bowazon, then max ga/strafe would be skills i would advocate in that tree.
 

Kirsty

The Order of Dii Guild Member
I don't think he's being hard on me but just states the facts that 1.10 dueling has rigorously changed. I do still live somewhat in 1.09 in the sense that I don't use any of the overpowering crossclass curses, auras or other general skills like teleport, plus I still see mass poison as a very passive way to hit once and wait until it finished doing its job.
Some are very acceptable to the idea and I don't mind that, however, if someone makes a post on it then I will certainly voice my concerns. I don't think I will change my views on dueling etiquette any time soon, but don't let that hold you back.
 

shade449

Diabloii.Net Member
I dont see why anyone has a problem with this build. Obviously its major bm but its just as obvious that no private league is going to allow this build. I for one hate bm but I always have one of these chars available just to give the pubby duelers who think they are best cause they have 5 auras on at the same time, a taste of their own medicine(wow that was a long run on sentence).
 
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